The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

Go Back

Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2018-03-22

Joe Andrieu, Christopher Allen, Kim Hamilton Duffy
Kerri Lemoie
Kim Hamilton Duffy, Nate Otto, Kerri Lemoie, Adrian Gropper, Serge Ravet, Stuart Sutton
Audio Log
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Additional attendees: Cherie Duncan, Mike Xu, Ricardo Cosme, RandIA, RJ, PhilB
Nate Otto: We will be scribing the Occupational/Educational Task Force call here presently.
Nate Otto: Audio channel is here:
Nate Otto: This call is being audio-recorded. Kim will present some slides to get us started here:
Kerri Lemoie: I can scribe
Kerri Lemoie is scribing.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Giving a presentation of what we've done so far. This is our first kick-off meeting. What we've done so far is technical. Seeking use cases from the larger group .Informal group focused on use cases and prototypes. CCG and spinoffs motivated by educational scenarios but examples so far are drivers licenses, etc....While Verifiable claims uses cases are broad, it's important we understand the lifecycle and various use cases.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Priorities: explore the problem space, draft use cases, create spec schema drafts & prototypes, and getting feedback.
...Considering interoperability of open badges and verifiable credentials.
...Need feedback from all angles and while IMS owns the spec, if we propose this that it's something IMS may confidently take on.
...Verifiable credentials uses signatures: JSON-LD, RSA, etc... Can Open Badges use the same means as verifiable credentials?
...Decentralized identifiers have properties for strong identification for both issuer and recipient. Carry this into Open Badges.
...Other explorations: expressiveness, amending an assertion with further evidence, a "living badge", Verifiable evidence, identification of evidence provider separate from issuer & recipient
...Just skimming the surface...
...First initiative was verifiable credentials and open badges alignment
...Get clarity of further elaboration on these items....
To add to queue to talk use "q+" in irc.
Adrian Gropper: New to open badges. Can someone explain the business issue of open badges and what caused the open badges, biz problem being solved, etc..?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Great question - can someone in the group answer?
Nate Otto: Open badge is a visual token of a defined achievement with an image component and meta data about the achievement.
...An issuer makes a claim that a recipient of a badge made this achievement and the issuer confirms this claim.
...Been around since 2011. Originally created by Mozilla with support by MacArthur and now supported by IMS.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: One of the things learning machine became interested in given that open badges exist, it would be compelling for recipients to be able to re-use the envelope.
Adrian Gropper: Curious about the business side - reputation management or like the national student clearinghouse. What is the business interest that drives Open Badges?
Serge Ravet: It's a question of use cases. Give people the power to recognize other people besides institutions.
...Interested in how verifiable claims can support-how to claim a badge without an issuer platform?
...What if there is one issuer and multiple recipients. So many use cases that aren't possible yet with open badges yet.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Learning Machine is in the space with educational providers supporting Serge's point. For instance, how to maintain and verify records? Institutions don't necessarily want to be the ones verifying records.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: If education institutions go out of business, how do you prove achievements?
Stuart Sutton: CER - develop a rich descriptive language for credentials.
...Explore the CTDL in the context of open badges. The CDTL can be compared to a badge class in Open Badges.
...the Credential Engine Registry is where credentials can be stored and found.
...Same ecosystem. Be good players and support where CER can provide richer descriptions.
Nate Otto: (For openbadges-uninitiated, ob:BadgeClass and ceterms:Credential are in parallel, as a defined credential that might be awarded to many recipients. ob:Assertion -- the award to an individual that is parallel to the vc:Credential is not modeled in the Credential Engine Registry)
Kerri Lemoie: Back to business models [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: ...Other business use cases are professional development -- teachers, nurses, ... using OB as representations
Nate Otto: Right, @Kerri_lemoie continuing education requirements often use Open Badges as verifiable representations of professional development. Good one.
Kerri Lemoie: We've seen OB use in after school programs, informal settings. Latter is powerful because it challenges use cases [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: ...E.g. recognition in open source communities
Yes +1 for open badges afterschool and other informal learning sessions.
Kerri Lemoie: Can be a digital cred to recognize something that's formal and informal [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Nate Otto: Very valuable to preserve both the informal and formal use cases for defined achievements
Serge Ravet: Open badges were designed to make informal learning visible, but there greatest potential is in making informal recognition visible. And verifiable claims are a good match for that
Jeborsel: use case -- flexibility of the badge class - can be issued by anyone where the issuer can be a creator too .Is that possible with Verifiable Credentials? Is it possible for anyone to issue a badge if they aren't the creator? (is that right?)
Nate Otto: One of the things we're working on (prototype) in this group is called peer claims: where a badge class can be issued by other issuers.
...Achievement should be recognized as the same thing no matter who issues it.
Jeborsel: is it related to formal or informal?
Nate Otto: Both
...Use cases for both
Adrian Gropper: Our use case, the issuer of a credential can be a physician: in order to prescribe a controlled substance is if another physician is involved and vouches.
Nate Otto: Serge has long suggested use cases requiring that the issuer of an Assertion themselves only needs to hold a particular badge.
Adrian Gropper: A need for individuals, not just institutions to be able to issue credentials
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Next steps: send around a poll about what problems we should solve
...There is a paper written about alignment of verifiable credentials and open badges - interested in feedback.
...Group up by interests
...Meetings will be topic based.
...Initial thoughts on what you'd like to work on?
Nate Otto: Link to paper
...Prototype for how to develop an open badge assertion as a verifiable credential using linked data signatures using dids as recipient or issuer dientifiers ending with use cases.
...Will be published this spring but ready for commentary
...Two options to consider
...(for prototype)
Action item: review and add your comments
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Can use the ccg mailing list
Nate Otto: Sign up for the CCG here: [scribe assist by Nate Otto]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Join and sign CLA if you are contributing work
You can learn more about community groups here:
Nate Otto: There is a very strong place for self-asserted claims in the future of Open Badges.
Cherie: Dominode interested in self-asserted use case, Many types of achievements not recognized yet and we need to provide the on-ramp to use these standards for them.
Serge Ravet: An interesting document to justify the need for more open recognition:
Nate Otto: Badgr pathways for example about tracking badges but also about employers posting positions and applicants being able to post self asserted applications.
Adrian Gropper: Revocation needs to be considered
Nate Otto: @Agropper revocation has always been part of the Open Badges use cases and protocols. Not that we have specifically better technology for it than VCs have so far. HTTP statuses and lists of revoked ids so far...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Yes to revocation
...need to consider privacy and other aspects to consider with revocation so its a helpful topic
...Would be good to have more eyes on revocation
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Will reach out with the poll. Next meeting will be about poll results.