The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2018-07-24

Lionel Wolberger is scribing.

Topic: Introductions

Hello all. Wolf McNally, via invite by Christopher Allen
Jeff Orgel: JeffO StL dial in 314 area code

Topic: Agenda Review

Agenda: Main focus today the Amria.pdf document
Lionel Wolberger: My name is Lionel Wolberger, I've been in the CCG for a while. Via we're doing location credentials and secure proofs in a decentralized manner. We want to use VCs as a way for making those interoperable. [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Lionel Wolberger re-introduced himself, co-founder of
Chris said, there are a wide variety of guests present

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Opening at 10 AM Pacific with a quick introduction to the WoT, SSI, principles and high level intro
A number of companies will do deeper dives throughout the call
Joe said, next week decentralized web summit in San Francisco
Chris- Markus had a panel accepted at that meeting. Decentralized identity panel.
Kulpreet Singh: SIP is totally not working for me. Will try later again. :(
Chris- there will be updates on IPFS, and a wide variety of information on decentralized internet
Joe - August 29–31 Kulttuuritalo, Helsinki, Finland
RWoT will be 26-28 September 2018
TPAC and IIW are the same week in October
Joe urges people to attend the TPAC, and win over W3C people
Dave Longley: TPAC early registration ends in July I think ...
Dave Longley: Cheaper rates will end.
Dave Longley: (So hurry up and register)
Richard A. Kraaijenhagen: TPAC is invite only, can we apply?
Richard- invite only? Please elaborate.

Topic: Progress on Current Action Items

DID Primer, it is now a valid document.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: PR for possibly complete work items:

Topic: Work Items

Andrew Hughes: The github repo for did-primer conversion into ReSpec format is
Richard A. Kraaijenhagen: @Lionel I was wondering what kind of level of participation in CCG is required to attend tpac.
ACTION: update work items with links to final artifacts
TPAC is invite only??
Regarding TPAC: In general it is invite-only. There are ways to get in if you are in a community group.
Most working groups do object if people who have not agreed to the IP policy start speaking and contributing.
Christopher Allen: ?+
W3C is in general invite-only, and can be quite detail-oriented when it comes to inspecting your paperwork (which could take time to complete)
Lionel Wolberger: The work is delayed a bit... [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Lionel Wolberger: Data minimazation paper, bring it to the finish line.
Yes, Chris, bring that grad student
We had Shannon as the editor
Chris Boscolo: Anyone know if the phone bridges is working?
Is he still involved?
I will work Chris offline and push the paper forward.
Joe Andrieu: BTCR hackathon. Scrum daily via phone.
ChrisA: There have been many changes due to the DID spec and resolvers
... This changed the "playground" code
... The most interesting thing? We have a GoLang-based version of some of the underlying primitives
... We can now call a GoLang based service to return various things like a revocation address
... (much better than using a rate-limited bitcoin ledger explorer)
... Worked on adding tests to the playground
... A test unit revealed that one verifiable claim was bad.
Joe Andrieu: Attempt to take the playground to the next level.
... Jupiter based Python playground
... Electron version of the playground (Electron may be able to do more low level secure things)
... Collaboration (Wilson did this) to port Song's programming class into javascript
... aim is to have markdown snippets that are editable and executable
Manu Sporny: Where should we focus our efforts? e.g. JSON-LD being fixed
... There is a JSON-LD playground with a processor ...
... VC.JS a javascript library that will be useful in creating verifiable claims
Joe Andrieu: S/Jupiter/Jupyter/
... What are the biggest pain points? Can we prioritize our work?
Chris Boscolo: Fyi, 540-961-4469 is not accepting incoming calls, tried two different phones, I'll have listen to the recording later
Joe Andrieu: Tel:+1.540.274.1034;6306
Jarlath O'Carroll: I'm having problems with the phone as well
Joe Andrieu: I just posted the current #
ChrisA: Outside VCs, in the DID spec itself, we do not have a context for DIDs, we do not have some schema stuff to refer to making it hard to validate
... These things were manageable, though
... the more serious missing pieces are around VCs
... we are using SecP
Chris Boscolo: Thx!
Chris Boscolo: Not sure where I got that other number...
... what should a signature suite look like? List the public key or the DID URL that references the key?
... Biggest problem is javascript itself
... a lot of the DID/VC stuff requires the greater security of GoLang or C++
... We have no security reviewed cryptographic code for signing JSON-LD
Christopher Allen: But json-ld in C++
Christopher Allen: ?
RyanG: Contract design is working in C++ code
<My audio just went silent>
Back now
Mike Lodder: Yes I can
Jarlath O'Carroll: Thank you Joe, Manu
Joe Andrieu: Over to Amira

Topic: Amira Use Case

... Recap: Amira came out of a RWoT user story, and applied information lifecycle engagement model, a 15 stage breakdown of the categories of interaction that a person will go through in interacting with the system
Ryan Grant: Digital Contract Design is working on C++ code for a BTCR method resolver, but does not have a clear library to link in JSON-LD. [scribe assist by Ryan Grant]
... Amira our heroine is a female programmer
... the story walks her through the 15 stages.
Manu Sporny: I really like this engagement model because it doesn't presume that the digital world does everything... it blends the physical w/ digital really well.
Joe Andrieu: .. Reads through the Amira PDF ...
Joe concluded.
ChrisA: Adding context.
Moses Ma: Christopher, you are ON in a few minutes at the conference. Please log in ASAP, people are worried.
... what is powerful is that anonymous developers participate
Joe Andrieu: (Thanks, Moses!)
... real world example when this Indian young woman did a bitcoin app and got attacked on Reddit
... often minorities or diverse individuals are locked out
.... Joe did this with Joram a while ago
... ChrisA appreciated that it took all the technology "out" in order to highlight the engagement stages
... the engagement stages ensure that the non-technical human level is right
... we had assurance that the verifiable claims looked right ...
Manu Sporny: Many great aspects to this
... the strength of this story (idealism) may also be its weakness
... some W3C types may see this as too "head in the clouds"
... not enough profit, revenue, monetization, efficiencies for existing businesses
... cannot square this circle
... perhaps, do another engagement model that is more typically business oriented
... we need good coverage on typical commercial use cases, so we are ready for this type of scrutiny
... this type of idealism can tar the group
... Also: We do not have a detailed expanded story for the mainstream 'capitalist' use case
... and W3C is very dedicated to good old capitalism
... Q: how do we map Amira to the technologies being worked on?