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CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon

Minutes for 2020-04-20

  1. Introductions & Reintroductions
  2. Learner Record Wrapper
Kim Hamilton Duffy, Christopher Allen, Joe Andrieu
Simone Ravaoli
Kim Hamilton Duffy, Simone Ravaoli, Stuart Freeman, Jim Goodell, Jim Kelly, Eric Welton, Chris Winczewski, Nate Otto, Laura Jaurequi, David Ward, Adam Lemmon, Joe Andrieu, Alan Davies, John Domingue
Audio Log
Simone Ravaoli: Good to see you here, @Tore_Hoel !
Laura Jaurequi: Ilauraj present+
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Going through boiler plate, house-keeping, scribing... [scribe assist by Simone Ravaoli]
Simone Ravaoli is scribing.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Introductions and re-intros...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: This is Balasz
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Balasz Nemethi
Error: (IRC nickname 'balazs' not recognized)[2020-04-20T15:15:36.524Z] <Balazs> Balazs Nemethi :)
Balasz: introduces hiself
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Tore_Hoel
@Tore_Hoel: from Norway head of the Ad Hoc group on Blockchain in Education in ISO SC36
Kim Hamilton Duffy: David Ward dward
David Ward: Introduces himself
Kim Hamilton Duffy: JimKelly
Jim Kelly: Chair of PESC Board of Directors
Jim Kelly: Chair of PESC Board of Directors

Topic: Learner Record Wrapper

Kimdh: intro the Learner Record Wrapper... several initiatives around learner record. Jim Goodell leading an effort starting within T3 Innovation Netowor,, it is a VC based approach to unify different payloads across standards bodies
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Jim is leading the work - one angle is to provide a Wallet and Wrapper for learner record. turns it over to Jim
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Reference: T3 Innovation Network
Jim Goodell: T3 is standard neutral to embrace all standards and promote ILR in standard-based way... Learner Records is very broad in scope, not jsut inside credential... includes work experience, employer records, any learning experience... goal is to develop a spec as a starting point for the ILR pilots suppoted by T3
Jim_Goodel: pilots are looking for guidance... what is proposed is to based the solution on the VC structure with some aliasing in terms of credential subjects...
Jim Goodell: ... Any payload is supported... plus a functional spec for the Wallet..
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The word "credential" is confusing to people... especially in the ed space... the word "subject" is irritating to use in Education...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: ... Data model uses Jason-LD aliasing... interesting to see if this can become an widespread approach... back to Jim
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Learner wrapper is the focus of the meeting... sharing the link to the ILR wrapper document
Kim Hamilton Duffy: What are the uses cases this is solving ? several different use cases we are dealing with - sharing a doc
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Situation where customer has data but there is no well known Json-LD context available ... you can create one or...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Customer has data, no logical existing json-LD context, you can still represent it but you need to create context
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Not intending to expose the credntial data in machine readable format, the idea is to use VC as a thin wrapper or bridge so tools like the wallet can inspect outer metadata..
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Went through 3 cases of the wrapper...
Jim Goodell: Talking through the doc... description of objective, picture from T3 project 10 work lead by Kim... the idea is that there is manifes with minimum metadata to solve current problem of being able to support pilot... most info in the payload... tow main use cases: system2system and self-sovereign
Jim Goodell: Overview of the metadata ... manifest, issuer identifiers, date, type (Json object)... for each payload, learner identifier, 3 pieces of metadata around payload... intent is to srtongly recommend machine-readable payload
Jim Goodell: For the T3 pilot the idea is that machine-readable should be encouraged...
Jim Goodell: The package is Json-LD so by default payload could be Json-LD... and they payload format could indicate that... but it could something else as well... started out having separate prop for payload format and types... decision to use the (?) type... T3 network is working on a ILR resource hub but this is not where the types would live...
Jim Goodell: Scrolling doc on p.15 diagram of how things break down... adding the use of payload type and format and compression...
Jim Goodell: ... Different kinds of proofs... giving an example using Json-LD
Jim Goodell: Working with a bunch of organizations already...
Jim Goodell: Over to Kimhd
Nate Otto: How the ecosystem comes togethere ? any orgs already volunteer to build a wallet based on this spec ?
Jim Goodell: Digitary has been looking into it... interested in other organization looking into it
Nate Otto: Requirement is that wallet can respone to queries...what channel do those request come in ? is it an agent running on HTTP response or is it a protocl running on a user's machine ?
Jim Goodell: The intent is the data store in the wallet respond to queries...
Jim Goodell: How does the wallet receive the data?
Jim Goodell: Keeping doors open to all architectures for the wallet, just define what the functional requirements are to be able to work with the wrapper...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Has a couple of topics.. thanking Jim for coming onto the call... great that the ILR wrapper could use the VC spec... there are some pain points
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Json-LD context (that defines the term using in credentials)... OB thx to the work of Nate is referencing the VC work... with ILR wrapper defining new contexts, one thing is the idea of a service that CCG could provide to host JsonLD contxt, like and ILR Json-LD context, hosted in a CCG repo and making shure it is avaible at a nice w3c url... what do people think ? useful ?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Joe any comments?
Joe Andrieu: Worked on this with Kim and Jim... there should be a registry to host these contexts... the hosting should be adopted as a work item as an output of the group...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Registry and hosting - two key elements...
Jim Goodell: +Q to comment on the DID in scope
Nate Otto: Exciting of this proposal is proof of control of DID is in scope... have any particular protocols been proposed ? could it be a work item fo rthis group ?
Jim Goodell: DIDs and IRIs are options, but the intent is to push DIDs...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: DCC working on VC wallet so would be interested in contribyte to interoperability via DID-web (?)... could be a easy overhead method...
Joe Andrieu: A lot of talk about identity levels... we need a proof of control identifier, and I dont care how you get proof of control.... get and present credentials require proof of control... would welcome different types of provable identifiers to be used...
Nate Otto: Badgr has a WS that can function as a wallet... looking at different identifiers (even twitter profiles), love to add on other capabilities and open to work on it collaboratively as a community to spin out pilots... issuing, reviewing and inspecting crednetials... making Badgr available to play on this.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I love solid + vc:
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Kimhd to talk about solid
John Domingue: Director of Research Lab at Open University UK, looking into Blockchain, Open Badges and Solid ... OB linked to description on Solid which have hashes on the Blockchain... have been following VC since beginning and happy to join up with this effort... particularly linking up with Solid..
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Twitter profiles, proof of control could be a good work item... how do we write that document ?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Prototyping DID-web... what are standards way to express proof of control mechanisms ? how to write something truly interoperable across platforms... that would be very interesting and informative outside the task force... there is very little focus on how learners really use them...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I love Solid and VC ! ... the subject of a VC is represented by a Solid profile, like OB represent Issuers.. there is a URI... Solid has same notion... Soid profiles could be recipient of Badges
Joe Andrieu: There is a working bid in Interop under DHS... who are using a form of authentication over the credential handler API ... hopefully published in CCG and integrate similar conversation areound DID-Comm
John Domingue: My email our work can be seen at
Kim Hamilton Duffy: One more topic: VC a lot of reference format are in Json-LD... but also pure Json is possible.. in terms of signing process of VC, Json-LD is a first layer, behind there is an RDF-graf... RDF canonicalization ...a Json object could be signed and order maintained acroos platforms...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: For standards that can express RDF, what are the options ? ILR wallet is an interesting example... what about PESC XML transcript ? ... ILR wrapper shows way of signing...
John Domingue: [Have passed on to the team to look at]
Jim Goodell: +Q comment on longer term T3 harmonization
Kim Hamilton Duffy: ... Other options expressing VC as XML... or expressing the XML in Json-LD... if we are talking about credentials that already exists, it is about wrapping... for new credentials, we should be able to create credentials that are fully mapped to an LD context.. .to have more linked data capabilities... if we embed XML the metadata in the LR wrapper still let you inspect, or can go further with everyghing expressed as Linked Data... no[CUT]
Jim Goodell: Longer term goal of T3 harmonization project .. ideal state is that all different enconding could exist in the same transport mechanism... longer term is to get existing standards to leverage translation services... current project has narrow scope, as simple as possible to support transport and... both receiving and sending need to udnerstand - whether it is a PESC transcript or CLR...
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Let see the Use Cases... the wallet and the services available... how easy for the wallet to inspect credentials.. wrapper is a way for wallet software to undertand types inside... the advantage of LD signature ...
Nate Otto: This is great, thanks for getting some thinking started here!
Joe Andrieu: Thanks, Kim & Jim!
Jim Goodell: Thank you for the input all!
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thanks Jim for joining and sharing ! If you are interested in IRL do engage and stay tuned for updates !