The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon

Minutes for 2020-07-13

James Chartrand is scribing.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy: We are moving this meeting to every other week. will update calendar invites.
... want to move to work item focus in addition to speakers
... want to work on deliverables and still have good slate of speakers
... next meeting in two weeks will talk about Modelling VC document

Topic: Modeling Verifiable Credentials for Education

Kim Hamilton Duffy: We want to come up with working examples of VCs. expressing well known credentials as VC. using ILR wrapper. come up with good set of recommendations
... turn over to ILR group
... we recommend standards, incubate
... I will call on Jim Kelly and Nate Otto
... in document two topics
.. 1. Xml formatted credentials
... do vc support XML as we thought they would, and does it make more sense to model this in json or json-ld
... json-ld is an RDF serialization and so to can XML. assumed therefore xml was supported, but realize now there is a bit more work and not as straighforward, but is doable.
... could be a solution for any standard expressed as XML to include those in VC.
... if we went the XML path there is some tooling work for supporting signature screens. we would be adding a new serialization. total work is small - bookkeeping.
Jim Kelly: Pesc board chair and consultatnt
... all in XML like high school transcripts
... see need for move to JSON
Mano Ramachandran: Guys, do you have any India and UK specific numbers?
... we've been discussing for some time. we have a json-ld task force in place for 2 or 3 years to discuss including geocode, edxchange
... we have been discussing adding json versions of our xML standards. xml will not disappear.
Mano Ramachandran: Sorry, we don't. But we are overhauling our connection infrastructure and will have something more modern/open by end of summer [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
... not a small feat. easy to create carbon copies. easy to create carbon copies in theory,, but not sure that's what the community wants
... Michael sessa is also on the line, and can answer quetions
Mike Sessa: Good day all...can contact me at
... there are tools that generate json from xml so creating a carbon copy is not difficult. working on it. working group is being put together to examine that as a standard
... process to standard creation that requires review and approval. steps are involved.
... we would be able to add a json version of our pesc standards, but not clear when we could do json=ld
Driven and developed by PESC Members stepping up (not PESC staff)
... I have begun to realize the value of json=ld for our standards especially as a payload because the payload becomes semantically readable
... is readable as json but more valuable as json-ld
... I know there is a desire to have pesc formats in json but we don't have a timeframe but we are pulling the process to together to build a workgroup and gather the pieces to create a new standard
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The question of json vs json=ld is a good conversation to have in this group
... efforts so far have assumed linked data but that has additional complexity
... Even if we all like it it is still good to document
... Example 1 - course program certificate - this example shows minimal education vc. if you were designing the minimal thing today that's what it would look like
... nate and I are teeing up discussion in a thread - what terminology do we want to use? ILR LER?
... how to model open badge as VC, etc.
Nate Otto: This issue here is how do we model a claim that a learner has gotten a certificate
... scroll to page 5, working example 1
... shows. a real world certificate and we want to put it in language of VC
... VC allows any claim about someone, e.g., is someone over 21, favourite colour is green
... properties asserting about individual
... line 17 - the claim is degree - this subject with DID has degree
... claiming degree is not a common claim
... of all the learning claims in your history very few are degrees
... Is there a common claim type to represent achievement of educational goal
... What is the core concept?
... An achievement level that has criteria and an issuer. like open badges class - as set of properties - criteria, image, assessed by issuer
Phil Long: Is the problem Nate is discussing about a defined achievement represents a poverty of structured learning outcomes in the higher ed community?
... What does this mean - open badges calls it a badge - this assertion is about this. Idea is - 'has achieved'
... Scroll to page 7 - 'holds' means learner holds credential
... A term like hasAchieved should be used.
... Working example 5 is same thing - hasAchieved. same idea except competency is not necessarily defined by issuer of credential itself. could be a shared def across issuers
Allan Third: "HasDemonstrated" seems slightly more general?
... What is this idea of a hasAchieved claim?
... I think it has more power than something like 'degree'
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I agree. should spend time.
.. Time to turn to main topic. People from Open University to talk about their deployment with solid and open badges

Topic: Open University, Solid, and Open Badges

John Domingue: Joint presentation but colleagues having trouble getting on call.
... Date is important - accreditation is almost like an event.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Voip noise
... Certain credentials have a lifespan.
... Now, to get into talk - going to overview our work at open u. we have been looking at blockchain accreditation.
... This is a set of highlights of our activities, especially around covid-19
Phil Long: @John D's comment is important about a date as in most higher ed achievements they are in a defined context based on when they entered a degree pathway. The rules for achievements are bound by the contract at the time of their declared major.
... Slide 1 - there is a URL to our main web site.
... Slide 2 - overview of content
... We have a strong belief in social justice. 'open' means you don't need any existing quals.
... Some students have studied for a decade. Something like 20K disabled.
... Slide 3 - teaching at scale
... We have a Free learning platform
Phil Long: If you are not speaking (e.g., typing) please mute your mic.
... we founded a mooc with 10 million registered learners.
... we co-produce a lot of radio and tv programs with BSc.
... Slide 4 - lifelong learning
... small chunks of learning supported by accreditation
... Slide 5 - handing to Allan third
Allan Third: Move to decentralization is important
... solid is a linked data platform started by Tim Berners lee.
... turns web applications into views on data
... Data is held by individual
... Slide 6
... You keep your data in data pods. you permit applications to access your data to support what you want rather than what the application wants
... The linked data platform, solid concept, is linked data focused and friendly
... See a lot of discussion about personal data. go to slide 7
... You can gain value from personal data but may have incentive to change it, to edit it. if other people are going to give you value based on your personal data, you have to be able to verify it.
... you should be able to access and host it but also prove that the qualifications you derive are valid
... this is why we have been looking at blockchain to show your proofs haven't been edited
... Quals and work history, cv - services can be built on top.
... Can prove to others that you haven't tampered with vc.
... slide 9 - generic architecture - all purpose personal data store. using solid to store data, blockchains to prove with VCs. Implement VC model on top of solid architecture.
... Pass to alex
Alexander Mikroyannidis: Will present one of our most recent projects
Loïc Jeannin: @Kimhd: I'm already muted, that's interesting
... slide 11 - creation, piloting and evaluation of decentralized solutions for quals.
... ten partners - academic orgs and gov agencies.
... slide 12 - pilots
... slide 13 - lifelong learning pilot led by OU
... slide 14 - main stakeholders
... slide 15 main use case - personal portfolio of learner
... slide 16 Recommendations based on learner's skills
... Slide 18 Scoping landscape, understanding needs, consultation workshops
... Slide 19 Findings
Phil Long: +Q to mention is the personal eportfolio a generic analogy to a digital wallet?
... We are now moving on to next phase. Developing decentralized solutions for lifelong learner
John Domingue: Skills are important. people study to improve job or get a job.
... There is a new eurpean standard that represents set number of hours of learning.
... Want to produce new accreditation for computing
... There may be a mismatch in skills
... Competence shows that a person can carry out work without supervision
... Slide 21
... Slide 22
... Slide 23 Gateway Descriptions
... slide 24 Site for Gateway Badges
... Slide 25 Gateway Badge Alignments
Niaz Chowdhury: Presenting covid 19 system
... Slide 26 Covid-19 Antibody test / vaccination certification
... Builds on prior work, wanted to develop a smart phone app
... Slide 27 Timeline of Antibody Test / Vac Certification
Kim Hamilton Duffy: All: apologies that I got this session started late. Feel free to drop while we wrap up
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I'm having a hard time hearing the current speaker
... Slide 29
... Slide 33 - Main contributions
... We want to have a decentralized privacy preserving platform.
... We have been using our system for real students in UK.
... Our components are SOLID - to give learners control over data, including anayltics.
... Started using open badges now using VC.
... Use hashes on blockchain for verification
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Slide 19 - question from Phil Long, is portfolio like wallet?
John Domingue: Portfolio is layer over SOLID
Phil Long: Sorry - hung up before I could get the question out. I'll follow up with John D. separately.
... Slide 15 - semantic matching between skills you have and skills we are mining from jobs
Laura Jaurequi: Thank you!
Mano Ramachandran: @Kimhd thank you :)