The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2021-03-24

<econnell> present +
Heather Vescent: Agenda -- report out on Thoughtful Biometrics conference... overview of DID Candidate Recommendation, Community discussion about Solid meetings. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: Reminder that this meeting is covered by our IP Note -- it's free to join this group, but please sign up for W3C Account to sign up for IPR agreement. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: Working with CCG 101 -- it's not clear who needs to do what and when during sign up. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: All meeting recordings and transcriptions are available on the website... also easy to create minutes. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: We could use some help with minute generation, takes 5 minutes. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: You can chat on IRC or Jitsi chat and it'll go on the record. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: If you want to add yourself to the queue - do q+ or q+ (to say something) [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: To be included in the minutes, type present+ [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: Scribe selection... do we have any volunteers to scribe? It's fun. It's easy. All you have to do is the best you can to type what people are saying. [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Heather Vescent: Any volunteers? [scribe assist by Manu Sporny]
Kayode Ezike is scribing.
Heather Vescent: Let's do introductions

Topic: Introduction & Reintroductions

Matthieu Bosquet: Worked at Highland and worked with some folks who are here now
Julien: also from Highland and happy to be here
... working mostly with Blockcerts with Kim Duffy
John Callahan: CTO if Veridium and will excited to talk about the Thoughtful Biometrics Workshop from a couple of weeks ago
Taylor Kendall: Learning Economy foundation and have been diving deep into the SSI space
... recently gave a useful SSI 101

Topic: Announcements / Reminders

Kaliya Young: IIW is coming up on April 22
... there are opportunities for accessibility support if that is a concern

Topic: Progress on Action Items

Heather Vescent: : Https://
Heather Vescent: We are having regular CCG 101 meetings at Wednesdays at 2pm PT
... The group is putting together a presentation that will be presented to the larger CCG
... a major goal for this presentation is for orientation for newcomers to the space
... The group is avoiding firehose approach for better onboarding experience
... effectiveness as a contributor behooves this kind of an orientation
... some of the pioneers in this group can expect to be contacted for interviews and knowledge discovery
Manu Sporny: The larger group should also be contacted for knowledge discovery
... please stay on me so that I can get you the information you need
Heather Vescent: Totally understand and respect time and I propose that I put a calendar invite for you to join our next CCG 101 meeting
Kayode Ezike: Manu: +1
Heather Vescent: It's easier to get feedback once there is something to get feedback on
... trying to empower the folks in that team to feel presenting material both to this team and their own communities
... giving ourselves 6 weeks until the presentation
... first presentation is slotted for May 4 at 2pm PT
... this is the baby step introduction orientation to the community
Heather Vescent: Next step on Solid collab
... would love feedback from community on next steps
... confidential storage group is potential hub for Solid collab but cautious not to limit ourselves
... Issue 185: CHAPI Interoperability Test Suite
Manu Sporny: Submitted this issue on behalf of ganache
... CHAPI this is the Credential Handler API
... the idea is to enable movement of credentials in the browser
... test suite is useful for determining true interoperability
... came out of DHS SVIP
... idea is to bootstrap it via a neutral body but ultimate to get it onto the standards track
Heather Vescent: Last week was interop workshop hosted by DHS
... anyone wants to report back on that?
Markus Sabadello: I was one of the participants in this plugfest
... goal is to the support startups to apply VC tech to real world use cases
<bumblefudge> Transmure,, Mavennet, Spherity = SC cohort
... groups are working on supply chain and citizenship use case
<bumblefudge> Digital Bazaar, Mattr, DanubeTech, Securekey = USCIS use cases
... this is the second installation of the program and the goal is to demonstrate interoperability
Manu Sporny: The entire slide deck from the Interoperability Showcase:
... CHAPI was demonstrated using different implementations from different vendors
... really demonstrated the power of our standards
... different days were dedicated to demonstrations of interoperability and engagement of a broader audience as well as business feasibility
Bumblefudge: the interop test suites and demonstrations are part of a CCG work item and the CCG community is encouraged to audit those repos and chime in where they see fit
<bumblefudge> (we need a good nickname for it, very hard to say out loud)
<bumblefudge> Vuh-HAPI?
Heather Vescent: TODO for future session is to provide intros to some of these projects
<bumblefudge> nope
... if there are any any questions about getting involved with this dissemination of knowledge, please get in touch with me!
<bumblefudge> /me you are at 1/10 the volume we're at
Adrian Gropper: Great amount of work going on in SVIP and hard to track what software libraries are available for use
... suggesting CCG item for registry-like wiki for tracking available technical output from the interop work
<bumblefudge> There has been mention of linking to OS repos directly from the VuhHAPI documentation of each Test Case
... example implementations and commercial implementations could be better documented
<bumblefudge> i.e., links to what sample implementations or libraries are available for revocation-list-2020, etc linked from that test case
... would be great to know what it entails to get involved in the work coming from SVIP
Heather Vescent: Similar request came from developers who are new to this community
... we are trying to figure out how to put together a solid set of resources for new developers who are trying to get involved
Adrian Gropper: More investment yields better advancement of our ecosystem
Mike Prorock: Agreed that there needs to be more transparency in developer tooling
... also helps with security
Dmitri Zagidulin: Common like.. Javascript? :)
Markus Sabadello: There is also Java, which Danube Tech is using:,
Mike Prorock: +1 Markus
<heathervescent> lol. so true!
... aries and DIDKit are some of the existing tools for developers to concretely use
Manu Sporny: Some implementers are not aware of the complete lay of the land
Mike Prorock: +1 Manu, tying this back into testing etc is a very good thing
... we need some sort of registry to document this work
Kaliya Young: I publish a weekly newsletter update with Info Miner
... we are doing a survey with practitioners in the SSI community to get a sense of how exactly they are using this technology
Heather Vescent: You can propose this a work item
... this could be a great way for you to garner support from the community
Bumblefudge: the test suite gives people something to link to to demonstrate that we have implemented the spec in a testable manner
... this test suite is in a way a self-governing registry
Heather Vescent: Moving onto report of Thoughtful Biometrics event

Topic: Thoughtful Biometrics Report out

Kaliya Young: We hosted this event 3/8-3/12
... there were three days and three hours each of open space
... there was an opening and closing on each day so that each day came out to 5 hours
... talked about SSI, deepfakes and biometrics, and other relevant topics
John Callahan: it was a great event with 50+ registrants/attendees
... we had a vast participation from people in technology, civil liberties, and other domains
... group came to consensus that backend should be certified
... as there is a very siloed culture with these systems
... lots of discussion on liveness
... Stephanies Schuckers had a lot to share about this on behalf of CITer
... Sunpreet Arora shared about birth registrations, as he has done a lot of work on infant birth registrations and different biometrics applications in that space
... this intersects with ID binding work that FIDO ID&V WG and OpenID eKYC WG are working on
... There is a need for more open source tools for the biometrics space
... Kim's work was referenced with respect to selective/progressive disclosure
... There is a need for guidance at all stages of software development
... PAID Framework: Privacy, Accessibility, Inclusion & Diversity
... Patterns for ethical use were presented by Todd Gerhke (ID2020)
... with PAID framework, we start with the human centric needs before tackling technical challenges
Kaliya Young: We have been using Medium as our blog hosting site.
... we posted the entire agenda with all the topics and asked at the end of the day what people got out of the conference
... we are open to questions if any
Markus Sabadello: Thanks for the presentation. A few years ago, what relationship do you see between DIDs and biometrics?
John Callahan: Our blog covers how we can be thoughtful with biometrics
<markus_sabadello> Wonderful, thank you!
... what does it take to incorporate biometrics into VCs
Adrian Gropper: Following up on relationship between DIDs and biometrics
... most templates in this space is proprietary
... how do we get around this by linking opaque hashes to human readable references
John Callahan: There are biometric template storage formats that are meant to be interoperable (NIST payloads)
... these are across modalities (face, voice, fingerprints, etc.)
... these include raw images, processed images, and minutia
... most folks who are familiar with these templates referred to these during our discussions
<heathervescent> Also special thank you to Kayode_Ezike for scribing!
Heather Vescent: That concludes our discussion