<mprorock> MEETING MODERATOR: Michael Prorock <firstname.lastname@example.org>
<mahmoud> i can go ahead and do it
mahmoud is scribing.
Topic: Intro/Reintro then announcements.
<manu> oh neat... co-op credentials! :)
Nick Main: Joining as observer excited to work on cooperative credential work. Representing 3 coops and excited and mroe on it later ✪
Mproromprorockk: Moving to announcements: handing to manu on ethics and conducts. ✪
Topic: IIW Recap
<by_caballero> most shared xkcd comic of all time
Juan: I was going to say lately the convo in dif interop and DIF generally has focused alot on breaking interop targets down to smaller pieces and larger pieces at the same time. Starting to think about interop across different targets and priorities ✪
<mprorock> interop around definite use cases, and sometimes industry verticals can be very helpful - thought sometimes that means working with the big guys if you want to get something broadly adopted, and sometimes that can be difficult for a variety of reasons
<identitywoman> woopwoop WACI-PEx
<identitywoman> came out of IIW 32 done by IIW 33!!!
Agropper: I have the benefit of a huge experience with regulatory capture and interop and standards and trust framework due to my career, and the work we are doing here has huge human rights implications which are second to none, which are not being addressed. I think the community, generally, is making a huge mistake by not highlighting these human rights issues and regulatory capture issues, because i think we have too much at stake in non-tech ways to pretend this is just about crypto ✪
Agropper_: saying a google doc would surface is not what im saying per se, I was referring to heathers IIW comments. There needs to be a concerted effort maybe by the chairs to bring the various interop issues into one place, if that is CCG then it can become a work item of some sort. Right now its scattered. ✪
<orie> I'm pretty sure standards is 99% suggesting work for other folks to do sadly... but only people who do work, actually move the standard forward :)
<manu_sporny> Also, the Chairs aren't Interoperability Gods, as much as I wish that were true. :P
<mprorock> lol @manu - wouldn't that be nice
<agropper_> Where does leadership come from in CCG?
<manu_sporny> I think the answer is "not only from the Chairs"
<heather_vescent> +100 do not volunteer anyone to anyone.
<agropper_> "ethics police" ?
<mprorock> From the CCG Charter - what we are scoped to work on: "The mission of the W3C Credentials Community Group is to explore the creation, storage, presentation, verification, and user control of credentials."
<mprorock> continuing quote: "In general, the topics that are “in scope” include anything related to enabling interoperable credentials on the Web."
<by_caballero> open standards are more ethical than after-the-fact (or royalty-incurring) standards, wherever they happen
<heather_vescent> (If you want me to go over the work item types)
<rgrant> thanks both for the reminders in those links
<manu_sporny> hrm... this is my skeptical face -- I remember a particular thread about "digital slavery" :)
Agropper: i have never implied that the work were doing is unethical to the extent that term was somewhat applied to me or in the positive or negative sense. I think thats inappropriate. what i did raise as an issue is the leadership issue. ✪
<identitywoman> In terms of Interop moving forward - the German folks who have about 70 projects working on interop in their context are coming to the DIF Interoperability Group next week 6am pacific Wednesday - I will be sure to send the information to call in to that to the list - the call is non IPR protected and open to all.
<mprorock> it is about identifying and leading to consensus
<by_caballero> super-connecters are vital in this decentralized topography
<manu_sporny> Yes, agreed, the process can be intimidating... working with the sorts of people at W3C (literally the people that invented the Internet and the Web) can be intimidating... and they're people, and a lot of them are really super nice people that want to help you succeed.
<mprorock> honestly engage with PING etc
<manu_sporny> Yes, exactly ^^^ PING would be a good place to start
<tallted> 1. Leadership comes from within, more by example than anything else.
<tallted> 2. Ethical action includes paying attention to "human rights" concerns, as part of a universe of concerns.
<tallted> 3. Horizontal review of W3 work would include the groups Manu points to, and that might be the best path to getting specific human rights or other concerns addressed by any given spec (cf Privacy WG, Accessibility WG, among others)
<orie> I giveth TallTed the title of Chief Process Officer :)
<mprorock> so say we all
<orie> sry have to drop
<manu_sporny> Is Ted a leader in the community -- absolutely -- by leading by example, the only part of any title we care about here is "what part of the process is the person with that title expected to execute"... and it ends pretty much there.
<heather_vescent> Adrian - believe me I know how difficult this community is for non-tech people.
Agropper: ill just say that you have no idea how unlikely it is for this group, given how much of a tech focus you have to be able to inclusive of non-tech perspective, i hae reachedc out to critics, and the people that would represent diversity of opinion of this and many other groups always without exception refuse to participate because of the structure. ✪
<mprorock> lol @Heather - you absolutely have fought that uphill battle
<identitywoman> what regulatory capture are you worried about?
<heather_vescent> that's not what we are saying Adrian. We are saying to put your concerns in words and push publish somewhere on the interenet.
Apgropper: i constantly try to engage with a more diverse audience, sure you can look to PING but to tell me all i have to do is look for a charter, you are not hearing what I have to say about reg capture and leadership of DHS. you're just not hearing me ✪
<bobwyman> What is the alternative to writing a charter?
Agropper: folks are here for a particular reason which is B2B. ✪
<identitywoman> You should take the advice that people are giving you - write it down and make it clearer
<mprorock> strongly disagree as well
<heather_vescent> And community, do we want to give space to recap IIW again in a future meeting?
<by_caballero> i too would work somewhere better-paying if I cared less than 100% about human rights
<by_caballero> there have certainly been better-paying offers
<identitywoman> Have you sat down and looked Anil in the eyes and talked with him?
<mprorock> time note FYI
<heather_vescent> Ted, next week is TPAC presentation, but maybe we can also spend some time on IIW, after we finish that deck.
<heather_vescent> noted Mike. Today has been on fire lol.
<identitywoman> I've been talking to the ACLU for years - they are positively inclined to the VC work