The W3C Credentials Community Group

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VC API Task Force

Transcript for 2022-02-08

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Manu Sporny: All right welcome everyone this is February 8 2022 this is the verifiable credentials API call let me get our agenda in here.
Manu Sporny: So our today on our agenda is just this agenda review introductions and any relevant Community updates the next item up is a continuation of our discussion last week which is the VC API trying to converge on the workflow and hold your presentation proposals and then if we have time that's expected to be the majority of the call.
Manu Sporny: We will spend the remainder on issue processing specifically the controller style endpoint pattern we've been using and if that was bad idea or not or if we want to change it and then workflow IDs and names and anything else that comes up is there anything else that folks would like to cover today on the call.

Topic: Introductions and Community Updates

Manu Sporny: Okay if not introductions and reintroductions do we have anyone new on the call today I know that at least coyote Troy you guys haven't been here for a while would you mind doing a quick re intro.
Kayode Ezike: Sure thanks man oh yeah my name is Kyle Diaz EK I have kind of been in this space for maybe two three years now I first kind of got my foray into it the worked out doing with solid while I was in school and then recently started to work on as a species are to support the DCC know what they're doing alongside Dimitri and others and been involved with VCs... thought I'd see that we're doing here and so I figured it would be good to keep abreast with the developments here can promise that I'll be able to take all of these but I'll try my best to and also to follow the issues that are submitted so that's a bit here thinking.
Manu Sporny: Wonderful welcome as always wonderful to have you here... Troy, you're up.
<dmitri_z> really great to have you here, Kayode!
Troy Ronda: Yeah I'll just be quick my name is Troy Ronda I work at secure key I lead one of our development teams working on our platform called trust block dealing with verifiable credentials and decentralized identifiers.
<kayode_ezike> thanks for the warm welcome!
Manu Sporny: Wonderful and welcome always always great to have you here next up our community updates any updates that the community should know about be aware of anything of that nature.
Manu Sporny: All right I don't have anything for today.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead and jump into the main topic then.

Topic: VC API - Workflow-Holder Convergence

Manu Sporny: So the topics VC API workflow and holder convergence we have had a pull request out for about a week now that has been getting a decent amount of discussion and I think we're going to try and do today is spend the majority of the call trying to converge on what needs to be changed what we can merge things of that nature with this PR.
Manu Sporny: Let me kind of do a quick intro to the pr on the last VC API call there was a desire to try and converge the workflow proposal that was in the spec with the presentation exchange flows that have been in there for a while the traceability folks have been using the presentation exchange flows for the traceability work there is a desire to use some.
Manu Sporny: Points just converts them into two so that we can so one the traceability folks can continue to use those those apis the same shape of those apis for their use cases but we also are in able to do things like credential refresh in other kind of flows through a a converged API so the purpose of the pr is to merge these two kind of approaches which are very close.
Manu Sporny: Those one of them is a superset of the.
Manu Sporny: Into one thing so that we can all you know have basically two end points that we can run all of these interactions off of one of the big things that we mentioned last week was the language around it's probably wrong and we want to use the word exchanges that was suggested by Joe so that wording has gone in there there was a.
Manu Sporny: I believe micro Croc and my mood that we use you know transaction identifiers and exchange identifier so that has been put in there as well in in there's been a lot of lot of review over the past couple of days there are some misalignments and disagreements still and so I think what we're going to try and do on the call is figure out.
Manu Sporny: What needs to change.
Manu Sporny: Are or what needs to come out of the pr for it to be merged let me pause here and see if Mike might pee my mood or or t if y'all want to provide any analysis on the pr before we kind of dive into it.
Mike Prorock: I can go first and then hand the ball to Horry the I think this is a great in the right direction one and I think there's a lot in there like things like error handling and stuff that we know we already kind of one in across the board so there's stuff like that that I think we could kind of almost take in as is and I think I've noticed that some of the stuff there seems to be broad agreement on in the pr there are still some.
Mike Prorock: Areas for improvement though right.
Mike Prorock: For extension so I think if we can get it to where hey here's this common stuff we're ready to go pull in and then you know either myself or someone else can go in and you know issue a second PR to then start hashing out some of the details on some of the other things might you know might be a good path I'm not sure orry I know you've got some direct thoughts you know probably more.
Mike Prorock: Or is your audio can.
Orie Steele: All right take me a second to find the browser that I never use make a Firefox I think at this point the fastest most effective way of moving forward would be to merge the pr with its current problems and to have either Mike or mood do a follow-up PR that addresses their specific concerns it seems like we're sort of asking Manu to.
Orie Steele: What exactly your meaning which he's doing his best at but I'm probably faster if you guys just did a follow up here that would be my recommendation.
Manu Sporny: I mean I'm good with that Ori my concern was that there was I think your biggest concern was this transaction ID thing or transaction uuid thing I just want to make sure that you don't have like it's okay so let me try and summarize what I think is being suggested so or you're saying just murders the whole thing in Mike you are saying Hey I want.
Manu Sporny: Let me let me let me.
Manu Sporny: Fleet of the comments so that other people can see it.
<orie> the current endpoints are broken, but Mike et al can probably fix them faster.
Manu Sporny: If everyone goes to that link there so Mike you're saying I want the post on Exchange ID transaction uuid to be changed to a point and so I totally get that I can do that in this PR but then Mike you're saying I also want gets to exchange ID / transaction ID and delete.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I get it in this and actually I think this is worth while speaking about a little bit because I think there may have been just for communications and reading through comments and stuff I think there may be some misunderstandings at least in the while I was looking at this so what I look at like as a path that is an exchanges collection right a collection of exchanges / some type of thing.
Mike Prorock: Flash than the actual entity that's being.
Mike Prorock: For to that.
Mike Prorock: Of key that type of exchange was key in my mind right that I want to go initiate some you know type of exchange around like a reef a credential refresh or a past this a lot this data along someone else or start some kind of a defined flow based on an ID and then the individual elements of that would be referenced by that transaction uid and so that was in my brain the way things were going and I'm not sure that came across.
Mike Prorock: Ross fully there.
Mike Prorock: Like if we want to go create an exchange of some type we would do that with a post we may not need that second ID there though depending on how we do this right so and so but basically as a rule of thumb like we're going to want to post if we're creating it and if we're specifying the type of thing that's going to create it we probably want to do that in the URI as well as in the body right and so that was my comment in there that I think you linked to but then if you're updating a.
Mike Prorock: An absurd or.
Mike Prorock: Also you have an own ID that's where the put comes into play those kind of implied that you may want to once again write like request to get her off of this right it is this some stateful thing that's being stored on the server and or not and or delete it and that's where you get into things like gets and deletes by an ID right or or to get all types of exchanges matching some known pattern right.
Mike Prorock: One other note of.
Mike Prorock: Is that my little edit to note about putting the query in the path like I'm totally good with putting aquarium path like I'm actually a fan of that some folks do like to try to put queries in bodies but I what I'm doing gets I generally like a get does not necessarily imply a body to me right and back usually doesn't imply some kind of request body so that's just philosophically how I think about that stuff and we look at other apis that deal with some kinds of State.
Mike Prorock: A full data that tends to be a pattern that we see.
Justin Richer: +1
<justin_richer> +q rather
Manu Sporny: Got it Dimitri Europe.
<brian_richter> I'm confused why transaction id is transaction uuid throughout the PR. even in this discussion it has been called transaction id. can it be id instead of uuid?
Dmitri Zagidulin: But I wanted to clarify is is transaction ID required.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Or to put it another way is it possible to use.
Dmitri Zagidulin: For client to use.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The Exchange ID and point I would know another action.
Manu Sporny: It's a good question Justin I think you're up is that you rather.
Justin Richer: I yes so I just wanted to make a quick point for those that don't that are following it the HTTP working group is actually currently working on a new definition for a new verb type which would be a get with a message body because get does not have a message entity body as per HTTP it.
Mike Prorock: +1 Justin - that is a good note - it is not defined yet
<manu_sporny> Finally! (might be terrible, but it's come up so many times)
<mprorock> but we should be aware of
Justin Richer: So that is something to consider when when looking at the application of put and post to do get like operations this is a known limitation of HTTP and it's something that this as a new API might want to you know earmark for for future use and compare compatibility and potentially join the.
Justin Richer: Join the conversation in the HTTP working group the current name of that method is query I suggested it be named get fat but that was not accepted.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> lol
Manu Sporny: Thank you Justin that's super helpful I'd certainly didn't know that was going on.
<justin_richer> HTTP GET_FAT /foo
Manu Sporny: Why did I put myself thank you um.
<justin_richer> ;)
<orie> so we can just switch to POST /messages ?
Manu Sporny: I totally forget okay so just to just to be clear I think so Mike I think what you're all everything you're saying is not a surprise to me so at least I understood that oh I put myself on the queue for do you have to use transaction ID Dimitri I think unknown right now I think I mean take a look at the the OAS file transaction ID.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Okay just wanted to clarify that got it understood.
Manu Sporny: That you have done a post here and have been given a transaction ID to use or you got it out of band yeah so when you put when you post to exchanges exchange ID you will be given a transaction ID to use for the next step in the process.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Got it thank you.
Manu Sporny: That's the that's what yeah I think that's where folks are right now and to be clear the only thing the pr defines are these two things Mike you're suggesting we should do a get you know potentially get here potentially create these are other PRS let me let me just State I think Mike these are other PRS that you're going to write and we will look at.
Mike Prorock: Correct those would be follow-ons I just wanted to note that like hey if we're talking about things that may have stayed on the server somewhere we've got to go deal with those things because there's a gap on the credential side as well right if we think about credentials as a collection of things right.
Manu Sporny: Okay good so I'm so I I'm hearing that we have agreements I will I will update this to a put that needs to be done the pr do a put and then I will merge everything and then Mike you're going to follow up with PR's for these endpoint definitions.
Mike Prorock: Yeah forget errs deletes and I will likely do that PR across the board anywhere we have a collection that may be stapled because we kind of need that so.
Manu Sporny: Um can you please do those as separate PR's and not one massive PR.
Mike Prorock: Yes I will do it by the path so it'll be like here's a getting to put you know anywhere like we're missing an implied method that's blocking functionality right I would do so it's a credential thing so it's here's the credential stuff as one PR oh here's this exchange is thing like here's you know some corrections all that and then a follow on PR that adds any Getters or deletes etcetera.
Manu Sporny: Okay alright okay so I think that's the path forward for this PR I should be able to do those things by the end of tomorrow and put it in there and then Mike you can start basing yours off of that with this PR in I think we have everything that we would need to do the credential refresh stuff and in a couple of other things that are needed.
Manu Sporny: Brian you're on.
Brian Richter: Sorry I'll be brief I got a dog barking I'm just wondering how come we're going with uuid I think that specific and say this tidy.
Manu Sporny: That is an excellent question there was some amount of discussion in here over that I think Cory you suggested look if we're going to do these types of IDs we should Define a type and use it across the entire API where it makes sense to do so like a transaction ID I then suggested well I know that we want to use the multi base encoded 128-bit values and some people want to use uuids so if we're going to have a universal type.
Manu Sporny: It might contain both of those things.
Manu Sporny: And I think that there are I mean and then we need to hear from everybody else if people are like no that's too restrictive or like that's really weird why are you doing two different types of ID formats we need to hear from everyone my expectation is someone would have to do a PR I can volunteer to do that PR and then the group would need to jump in and and comment on the pr Brian does that give you at least some amount of that.
Manu Sporny: It's I think we're we're.
Brian Richter: Yep doesn't make sense.
Manu Sporny: Where we're headed let's see Mahmoud you're here go ahead.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I had a quick point so to me transaction ID being a uid or something similar that makes a lot of sense just because this is an instance of a thing the types sorry the exchange ID I'm not sure if that needs to be a uuid or somewhere that could just be like a type of some sort right like one of the examples that I gave was this is an exchange.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Credentials and so would just be a named thing or we would need a way to translate that ID to a name like I think there's an implied endpoint of what are all the transaction IDs that you support as an API that would be basically a get and point and then you can translate those IDs to what that means.
Manu Sporny: Great thank you Mohammed Mike you're on the queue.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I that's actually kind of what I queued to ask about because there's a there's kind of two ways we can go here right one is to say hey we've got these exchanges we want to specify the type explicitly in the past so like exchanges you know AG path or ID age verification / then the ID of the actual instance of that thing the other way is if you're just posting to create.
Mike Prorock: Two exchanges and you're not.
Mike Prorock: You know perhaps that type is specified by you know VP requests Etc into that like nope nope here's my posting and VP request in there and the type is in handled entirely by that VP request and then in that case that exchange ID just goes away right all we're dealing with this once an exchange created with an ID that ID then gets reference so it simplifies things down a little bit from a passing standpoint but those are the two ways.
Mike Prorock: Ways we could go there and I would.
Mike Prorock: Feedback on that you know from Orion my mood as to thoughts on that because like I have soft preferences One Way versus the other obviously leaning a little bit towards like specify the type in the path because that's what I think I suggested in the last meeting or the meeting before that.
Manu Sporny: All right I yeah so I just put myself on the cube The Exchange ideas Mahmood the current reg EX for it the only thing that we require is it starts with a through z r 0 through 9 and then you have at least three characters so the the suggestion is that.
Manu Sporny: At least digit.
<orie> POST /exchanges
<orie> with some type for defining id.
<orie> its called a "slug"
Manu Sporny: Our would like the possibility of putting a human readable string in there of some kind where the ID can be human readable it is possible for that to be a legal thing so for like credential Dash refresh we want to be able to do like exchanges / credential refresh or exchanges / credential refresh stat / some kind of transaction ID anyway that's our use case.
Manu Sporny: Going to your like you should be able to post to exchanges that gives me a little bit of heartburn but you know it would be good to kind of understand what the use case is and in detail there so I don't want to say like no let's not do that but I'm a bit you know concerned about that anyway the Mahmood the point you're making about like yeah their transaction IDs and those are like 128-bit numbers map to some kind of scheme representation.
Manu Sporny: Dior multi base encoded 128.
<orie> you can use "anyOf"
Manu Sporny: Those are transaction IDs but the exchange IDs can't be those things or we also need the option of them being human readable strings or you're on the Queue next.
Orie Steele: Yeah so you can use a nanny of representation and open API specification you know 3 that would cover your slug human-readable possibility it would also cover patterns for recognizing uid V4 or whatever other types you wanted to make valid for that parameter Beyond just specifying a string so you can do all of those things and provide good examples.
Orie Steele: In the API documentation for all.
Manu Sporny: Yeah plus one are doing that and I tried to do that in this PR mic Pro Rocky on the queue.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I guess the agree with what we just said I guess the question is because I saw Orion the chat suggested just having it as like exchanges as kind of the root path and then ID to refer to the instance I think Manu the way that that would be like if you wanted to get exchanges of a certain type like credential refresh you would do a get with a query that says I.
Mike Prorock: Need things that match this particular.
Mike Prorock: Json example that I just gave you that happens to include the specification of credential refresh right in you would get back all those credential refresh items so I think that's the philosophical question is do we want the ability to specify that type you know of exchange that's occurring in the URI in the path itself or do we want a more generic system that says I it's just we're handling exchange data.
Mike Prorock: Data and type.
Mike Prorock: Find as you know a subtype of the VP request back or whatever is getting passed through so in the SI I know get is not but yeah creating one right there so if you're posting and saying yep I want to fire starting exchange instead of saying I want to start an exchange / credential refresh and therefore I'm posting to that I create a credential refresh path that starting up basically is that is that fact that it's credential refresh is that specified in the body of the post.
Mike Prorock: Store is that specified in the path and that's.
Mike Prorock: Philosophical question there and I saw Orion the chat like I said just say no it's basically we want to specify that typing in the body whereas what was initially proposed and it is in this PR right now is to say oh that type is specified by an exchange ID in the way that PR is now in the path itself and then you're getting an ID back does that does that make sense or did I just model things.
<orie> your exchange-id has no example... which would probably make it clearer.
Manu Sporny: I think I and I think I understand what you're saying Mike but only because I have read all the comments in PR 258 just to be clear that the one of the use cases we gave so digital Bazaar has a use case where we're processing these things you know at scale so the true age program it's you know 60 million you know of these types of calls per day in the way.
Manu Sporny: A lot of load balancer.
<mprorock> POST /exchanges/credential-refresh
<orie> ^yep
Mike Prorock: +1 Manu
<mprorock> which is why i wanted it in the path
Manu Sporny: You know as your gcp and AWS work is that if you can look at the URL to do the load balancing that is way more effective than if you have to go and look into the body meaning that if you have to invoke a jsonparser to go and find something in a Json thing figure out where you're going to direct this request many.
Manu Sporny: Balancing Frameworks do.
<orie> good reason, but you can still define the URL parameters fully.
Manu Sporny: Or that they just support it based on the URL I will also note that get in query parameter style stuff is not a use case for us you know we just have this fairly simple collections thing you've got exchanges it's a collection of the types of exchanges so you have types of exchanges in there and then you know we want to be able to post to the that a certain type of exchange to initiate a very specific.
Manu Sporny: Okay just a close this PR out though I think we have a clear path forward I haven't heard anyone object to kind of merging in the pr modifying that post to a put and then Mike working on top of that so let's go ahead and do that and then move on to our next next item let me pause for maybe.
Manu Sporny: 15 Seconds for someone to object and then we'll move on.
Manu Sporny: All right we are on to issue processing 10 minutes ahead of schedule.

Topic: Controller-style Endpoint Pattern

Manu Sporny: Just great means we actually agreed to something issued to 57 is the next item up I will put this in.
Manu Sporny: Okay so this this one's kind of a bigger conversation that we're going to get to any kind of resolution on it on the call today but a while ago like a year and a half ago we had decided on this control style and point naming pattern and so you know basically what that means is we have try and pull up the BC API just to provide an example.
Manu Sporny: So in the spec today.
Manu Sporny: What's it what's a good example of this.
Manu Sporny: Let me find a different one.
Manu Sporny: Maybe it's the maybe this right so correct me if I'm wrong my Quarry my mood but this is the controller style and point naming its kind of got a verb so you've got your kind of collection and you've kind of got a verb at the end of it and that's viewed as a legitimate way of doing some of doing this.
Orie Steele: It maps to function invocation logically the verb as a function and its post body as their arguments its Network responses the output of the function and you can have side effects or no side effects that that's the idea behind the controller style naming convention.
<mprorock> it is not an either or - it is more method specific
Manu Sporny: Yep so this is what we picked the the first time through and you know we had consensus and we've marked the whole whole thing up like this but one of the things that I think has been brought up lately was do we want to do that like isn't credentials the collection and do we want to give credentials specific IDs in that collection so do we want to go that route and if we do.
Manu Sporny: How do we map.
<orie> you can mix controller and collection style endpoints
Manu Sporny: All of the endpoints over to that right so this is this is just a conversation about that do we want to keep the controller style in point naming or do you want to at least look at proposals for what it would look like to do the the other pattern Mike go ahead you're on the queue.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I think it and I think or e note of this as well in the chat but it's not a it's not an either/or it's more of a which for which right so when we look at a method like you know credentials derive right and you're posting that you're saying here's this body that says I want to go create a new thing that's derived from some other credential right cool that makes sense for controller style and point but if I want to go get a credential right from a collection of credentials to.
Mike Prorock: See if it was revoked.
Mike Prorock: You're not.
<orie> or you can use a POST and wait for the HTTP WG to implement QUERY :)
Mike Prorock: Then I want to get credentials / the ID of the credential I'm trying to get in order to go retrieve that exact credential and say yeah let me look at some things about this right assuming I'm authorized to do that and so I think that's the thing is it's not so much that it's an either/or it's a you know are we using the right things appropriately in the right places does that make sense so like for instance post credentials issue makes sense to me because it creates.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> i think post credential makes more sense than post/credential/issue
Mike Prorock: Whereas in the case of credential post credential status there it's already issued it probably has an ID so we probably want it to be a put there right um you know potentially right it depends there's arguments on this right but those are things that we need to be thinking about.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Orie you're up.
<mprorock> and good note on privacy manu
<mprorock> that is why we have to be careful with this
Orie Steele: Yeah so you know with respect to using path parameters right you need to think about what is the domain of the path parameter you know are you going to do you have IDs that are URLs in which case you're sort of nesting a URL inside of another URL that happens a lot with linked data and really nasty.
Orie Steele: Oftentimes you want you know to you know encode that kind of thing with a query parameter or do some other kind of approach so I think the thing you know if you're going to mix collection first of all I would say collection style and points are generally only work when you are the resource server operator and you are assigning the ID if you need to build an API that handles things that are identified with IDs that you didn't create the ID.
Orie Steele: D the collection style naming.
Orie Steele: Will get in your way all over the place because you'll be trying to take an ID that somebody else made and put it into your path but they made their idea URL.
<mprorock> e.g. a GET /credentials/{id} might specify that the id MUST not be derived from sensitive data, but people will get lazy
Orie Steele: So like you have to think about what is the structure of the data that you're going to be building this API around and I didn't you know my experience with the controller style naming convention is very flexible because you're dealing with Json arguments you know so you can you can handle things like you know URL reserved character collisions really really easily but it does sort of make the entire endpoints sort of look like a function function sort of method style interface instead of like.
Orie Steele: In oriented interfaces that's it.
Manu Sporny: Yep so like all all good points.
<orie> GET /credentials?id=http://...
Manu Sporny: So we digital sorry I had tried collection style in points for credentials and quickly hit up against what Ori is mentioning meaning that the second we had an ID that was not you know issued by us all of a sudden we had really ugly ugly URL encoded things being put into the collection so that's certainly a concern the other concern.
Manu Sporny: I had to do.
Manu Sporny: Privacy so you know in some cases URLs are logged pretty aggressively in server logs and you kind of leak what's happening you know when you do that there's an upside to that right which is the whole like load balancing Frameworks not having to reach deep into the HTTP message to pull out you know where to load balance to if they even have that capability so there are benefits.
Manu Sporny: Drawbacks there's night.
<orie> what mime types will the api support?
Manu Sporny: Like to I think all of us know there's no clean there's there's no clean decision we can make right now unless we know every single endpoint that we're going to have in the API and that none of them are going to fall victim to you know one one one downside of the other so you know I but I think I'm not hearing people objected leasing some proposals.
Manu Sporny: And then just kind of going from there right because we already I think if we pull this PR in this merge PR the workflow holder API or holder exchanged workflow PRN we have we have a demonstration of a collection now where the server is in control of the naming and maybe that can be the rule that we use.
Manu Sporny: All the end points.
<orie> the server assigns the ID?
Manu Sporny: We're if it is something that the server is control has control over maybe at that point of collection based endpoint makes sense.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> i think that makes sense, if server is responsible of generating id then it uses collection otherwise it doesnt
Manu Sporny: And if it is something where the server does not have control over that URL meaning it's just could be another URL that may be a good argument for the kind of object function style interfaces.
Manu Sporny: Thoughts go ahead Ori.
Orie Steele: So we added get credentials to the trace in our own profile because you can't actually test revocation without them and point so we support you know a get style interface which is of the form credentials / credential ID and it returns a json-ld verifiable credential that is a revocation list or 50 credential and this is sort of required to actually test end to end.
Orie Steele: The concept of the.
Orie Steele: Status feature which is in the current API that we're looking at here so I'm just sort of saying stating the obvious like you can't really use revocation lists if you can't get them and if you're using a URL to identify them then you need to get them by that URL.
Manu Sporny: Yeah I think that's an excellent point Ori.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Mike Pro Rock.
<justin_richer> that's not a url for the credential, right? the CRL has a separate URL?
<manu_sporny> yes, true Justin, but it's also a VC...
Mike Prorock: Yeah and I was going to note because I think the there's a couple of things like I think it's easy to think that were like you know ABS few kading potential privacy leakage by hiding stuff out of the URI you know as far as URLs go and stuff like that or IDs the reality is I think anyone that we would really be concerned about is looking at far more than just the URI logs and scanning through a lot more than that we also can do sane.
Mike Prorock: Things like specify that it might.
Mike Prorock: An ID that you're getting an issue and you know when you issue a credential and you hand back some ID that you're going to go look up there are ways to specify that that's not leaking information etcetera right so I think there are things that we have to think through cleanly here we also do reliably need a way even if it's just defined for internal use or authenticated use only you know to be able to check the replication status stuff as already mentioned.
Manu Sporny: All right so Justin would you mind vocalizing what you said in the chat Channel because I think it's important and then we can go into next steps here.
Manu Sporny: If you want to.
<orie> GET /credentials/{id} makes sense when the issuer hosts a revocation list at that URL.
Manu Sporny: Let's go in the next steps then.
<orie> but its not to say its the only solution to that problem
Manu Sporny: So it sounds like the next step is the group is open to the possibility of having collection style and points and if someone feels strongly about having a collection style and point or changing one of the endpoints we have right now to a collection style and point they should make a proposal.
<orie> its just the only one documented in the CCG work items for revocation lists.
Manu Sporny: Would anyone object to that characterization.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> sounds correct to me
Manu Sporny: All right I will make a note of that.
<mprorock> that could also be GET /credentials/status/{ID} where ID is the id of the revocation list
Manu Sporny: Okay so with that should we close the issue.
<mprorock> if we are strictly limiting to status checks, but that breaks some of the flexibility of current approaches there
Manu Sporny: Many objections for closing the issue because that's kind of the resolution there.
Manu Sporny: If folks want to do collection style naming conventions submit a PR and we'll think about it any objections to closing.
Manu Sporny: Hearing none closing the issue.

Topic: Workflow IDs and names

Manu Sporny: All right next item up is workflow IDs and names we might have actually made some progress on this bike.
Manu Sporny: The link is in our see this is PR 256 or sorry issue 256 should workflow IDs and names to be provided in the URL or the post body there's been quite a bit of back and forth here I think we already kind of sort of talked about this and the conclusion seems to be that we're okay with allowing.
Manu Sporny: But we need PR's with concrete suggestions let me pause there or you were involved in this discussion you know Mike so were you what thoughts on this one.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I think we kind of hashed it out and the review of that last PR right which is that we kind of want the IDS and whatnot or at least especially the idea both you know / kind of normal conventions there and so subsequent PRS to clean things up might refine this but that when we're representing a core ID that you know we're doing some kind of 128 bit you know conforming to a scheme etcetera right there are.
Mike Prorock: Ways to attack that.
Mike Prorock: That seemed to be amenable to folks and when there are items that may we may want like a human readable for in some cases like / credential refresh you know off of exchanges that there may be others who might say yeah but I want that explicitly not human readable or based on some uid and that's also okay right so depending on what it is I think we've got some flexibility to not paint ourselves into a corner here I see or you just commented.
Mike Prorock: But so I don't know if he has further comments but I think as long.
Mike Prorock: Specifying the types in the open ID specification were okay.
Manu Sporny: You're on the case.
Manu Sporny: And I think you meant OAS specification yeah okay Ori thoughts.
Orie Steele: I think my covered it you know we're defining an HTTP API the post potty Json structures the endpoint definitions We should strive to be as precise as we can so that we can rely on good validation tools you know pero Los so when we say it's a string it's not very helpful because you know there's lots of valid strings out there right is it allowed to be a script tag.
Orie Steele: No let's be clear right so I think.
Orie Steele: That's them.
Orie Steele: In the point I'm trying to make is we should try and be as clear as we can but when we reach the edge of consensus when somebody wants human readable and somebody wants definitely not human readable we can sort of support both of those things with schemas that we Define concretely.
<mprorock> @mahmod - types of exchanges you accept would typically be returned by a GET to /exchanges
Manu Sporny: Okay and I'm I'm I'm hearing us all agree I type something up so the group discussed this on the February telecon the group is open to placing IDs and names in a URL but require PRS to explore the specific use of ID or name for particular use case it is expected that any path parameters need to be very clearly defined with generous examples in the PRS.
Manu Sporny: Making that are finding in closing the issue.
Orie Steele: I mean I think my moods comment here probably deserves a separate issue but I think I think he should open a separate issue then we should close this this particular issue.
Manu Sporny: Plus 12 that Mahmood would you mind opening an issue.
Mike Prorock: +1 Separate issue, but I think i will handle in my follow on PR
<mprorock> so tag me please ;)
Manu Sporny: Some thank you all right I'm commenting on this one and then closing this one and then my moods opening a new one to address his.
Manu Sporny: All right let's see.
Manu Sporny: That exhaust the issues that we had scheduled we have 10 minutes left looking at.
Manu Sporny: Are there any other issues that folks feel are high priority like we should definitely talk about them today otherwise I'm just going to hunt and hunt for something that looks.
Mike Prorock: The only request I would have would be a five minute break between now and five o'clock Eastern time or functionality reasons it's been a long day.
Manu Sporny: Okay so yeah yeah now got it um how about let's queue up a discussion for next week we really should talk about the credential status thing I think like I are the traits folks concerned about this endpoint.
Manu Sporny: Or does it okay all right so let's put that on the agenda for next week and then Mike if you have your PRS ready we can talk about those on next week as well.
Mike Prorock: Yeah and your you said you're planning on merging what like tomorrow Thursday sometimes something like that.
Manu Sporny: When's yeah I'm going to try for tomorrow.
Mike Prorock: Okay I should be able to knock them out over the weekend I think so.
Manu Sporny: Okay all right I'll try try early in the day Wednesday but we'll see how that goes okay then with that that's it for the call today any last words before we end the call.
Manu Sporny: All right thanks everyone again great progress we've been making a lot of progress over the last two weeks appreciate that let's keep up the pace and get those PRS and all right thanks everyone and have a great rest of the day chat with you all later in the week and if not next week bye.