The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

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VC for Education Task Force

Transcript for 2022-03-13

<simone_ravaioli> Ciao Irene :wave:
<simone_ravaioli> @Irene - we cannot screen share as it likely will cause Jitsi's scribe to fail (we need it for the minutes). If you have a presentation to share could you make it available online and share the link in the chat ?
<irene> This link is to see in real time what I would be projecting
Simone Ravaoli: :+1:
<john_kuo> US Time change strikes again
<simone_ravaioli> Looking from my EU colleagues...
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Simone Ravaoli: Alright hello everyone ciao Tutti this is Simone at this is the w3c verifiable credentials education task force today is Monday March 14th and we are gathering together as we do every week at this time to address issues around verifiable credentials and education today I'll be your host.
Simone Ravaoli: We also have the mint.
Simone Ravaoli: With us as my coach are in the audience Kerry will not join us fortunately plea but should be able to watch the recording like everyone else.

Topic: IP Note

Simone Ravaoli: Let's go through the boilerplate things and then dive into the content for today's all right here we go so IP nodes anyone is free to participate in our calls however any contributors that is adding to our ccg work must be a member of ccg with full IP our agreement signed in you have linked to the.
Simone Ravaoli: And circulated the agenda you need to ensure that you have w3c account and that you sign the community contributor license agreement.

Topic: Call Notes

Simone Ravaoli: Now it's the meaning the minutes and the audio recording of everything that is said here are archived online and we normally use the chat here or IRC to queue up Spears to cure yourself up just add q+ whether you are following from Jitsi or from IRC.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Simone Ravaoli: All right so that takes care of it let's see if we have anyone new to our call so let's proceed with introductions or reintroductions anyone that is new just feel free to unmute and just briefly introduce yourself.
Simone Ravaoli: All right looks like pretty much we have the regular Sierra we do have a couple of guests but they'll have time to introduce themselves very very shortly.

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Simone Ravaoli: To announcement and reminders is anyone aware of anything happening that the whole group should be aware to please open up your mic and share now.
Simone Ravaoli: I'm right apparently not this is great just you know if anything comes to mind feel free to unmute and share later so today's main topic is exciting I think it's you know an opportunity for the group to take a look at some interesting developments coming out of Europe around verification and specifically we have a couple of guests are going to present.

Topic: Verifier Universal Interface (VUI)

Simone Ravaoli: Our Universal interface I'm extremely happy to have EU colleagues here at Irena and Jose from can in Spain they've done an incredible amount of work to support the European blockchain service infrastructure in Europe but also just the the SSI ecosystem and I think we are honoured that they are with us today we look forward to hear from them and also for them to stay engage with this particular group.
Simone Ravaoli: Hope so.
Simone Ravaoli: Further Ado I would ask it Anna to come up mute introduce yourself and please take it away thank you again for being with us.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Thanks to Mom can you hear me can you hear me properly.
Simone Ravaoli: I can't yes.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Well thank you everyone for inviting me today to talk about our work over the over the past year 2021 mainly just a brief introduction about myself I'm the CEO at Gattaca which is a company that builds SSI technology we've been working as someone was saying very closely with the FC team first helping them Define the technical specs and also engaged in a few.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): projects with me.
<simone_ravaioli> ^^ Slides that Irene will be presenting
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): States and other organizations also higher education institutions on the academic diploma use case so that's why our presence here may be most relevant to this group but today I'm here to talk about our efforts at the very fire Universal interface which is an interoperability working group that was framed within the S if lab project as if lab is part of the Next Generation.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): in Internet program funded by the.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Action we received a grant to work over a year on an interpretability project with an hour our proposal was to build the verifier Universal interface let me explain what that is this image May well if you're looking let me paste again here the link to the chat for those present so the in this link you will be seeing in real time what I'm presenting.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): I'm so pleased.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): To join that and after the presentation I will share a link so that you can download the presentation so no need to take notes but in an Essence the buoy is essentially these what you're seeing here and this team this image seems probably is very familiar to most of you so today as different technology providers are building a society technology what we realized is that sure we all agree that interpretability between these Solutions is mandatory because if not we're running on the left hand.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): side of the equation with kind of stand-alone line.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Alone solutions that try to fill the gaps of interoperability or standardization and there has been incredible work around standardization so far but we have a long way to go so what we try this to see where these gaps where and try to fill in so we could move on to an Ideal World which would be the right hand side and try to be as simple as user-friendly as possible and in this whole SSI ecosystem.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): so what we.
<simone_ravaioli> To follow the slides -
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Intended with the way is to build a set of standard apis literally apis to enable interoperability between ID wallets and verifier components and these all from the lens of the verifier component hence the title verifier Universal interface what in an Isis we wanted to do is for any wallet to be able to interpret with anybody fire component and the other way around that is a role Centric approach.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): roach to standardization at API level.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): And what we did is to think okay for wallet needs to percent verify credentials to a verifier what does the verifier have to do to actually verify that information and this is this question let us to define a minimum set of six apis for that validation to happen and these are the apis that you're seeing on screen presentation exchange that is what it means to give those verifiable.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Essentials to a verifier we.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Is perhaps a more European perspective but we hadn't added consent management how there is an agreement that they'd agreement between what the holder and the Very fire on how the data will be treated and then a verifier once this entity has the information they need to perform a set of validation like what are the public is associated to those the ideas whether that issue were issuing the.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): profile credentials are legit.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Title to issue those type of credentials they need to resolve the scheme has to in order to understand the information contained in the referral credential and they need to be able to resolve the status of such credential so those were the main the six main apis that we defined as a minimum set necessary to actually perform a credential validation process and what we did well let me skip this super Quay what we did is first a brief survey of.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): and the community to understand what would be the priorities.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): But most important here is the kind of the work housekeeping rules that way the design constraints that we defined prior to working on defining those apis first we were working based on the ideas verify credentials I'm very final presentations as defined in the SS reconstruction definitions and this seems obvious but there were some discussions at the beginning whether the IDS should be included or not as what does an assumption on the specs.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): also that these apis.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Be valid for mobile wallets and that was resulting from the fact that all of the surveyed companies are using an offering mobile ID wallets for SSI implementations and we believe that when we are developing technology actual technology on top of Standards their specific this time constraints derived from the fact that it is a mobile app that should be taken into account when defining those apis also.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): very important for us was to reuse as much of the.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Is that were.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): It's possible we didn't want to Define yet another standard yet another you know complementary work to other working groups out there so what we did at the beginning is to review all the working groups from DFW three Consortium everything that was out there to try to recover as much as possible and built on top for instance the presentation exchange API builds completely on top of this presentation exchange yes by suggesting.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): being extensions same with the ID resolution no.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): No sense to the find something else when there is a very mature data resolution spec already and also we wanted to be as independent of Technology as possible independent of the other methods of leaders of Technology of use cases etc etc be as generic as possible so with these design in mind and with the survey that I mentioned at the beginning we prioritized three apis that definition of three apis presentation exchange is for restoration.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): and consent management also also named data agreements.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): And we let schema resolution for a later stage a face to approach and the ID resolution is better resolution exactly as they were defined in the W3 Consortium specs and let them manage from there because they were already very comprehensive but we saw a few gaps in the other four and we decided to start with three out of the four remaining apis and what I'm going to explain a little bit today now is the results in each one of the three.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): apis very briefly and then I will provide you.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Link so you can read a comment please help on maturing this and making them accessible to the whole Community yes to mention that from the working group perspective we were 12 organizations working on this we were distributed in different roles that were implementers and integrators implementers were the ones responsible for defining actively defining those apis and integrators committed to integrating those apis into their own.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): G Stacks so if you want to join.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Our next step is to donate all of these work to the diff which is an ongoing process hopefully in the next month or so we'll be finished and the idea is to continue the work from there so if I deep dive into Data agreement here basically what we realized with data agreements is that there is in current SSI architecture there's literally very little support for consent management.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): endured at agreements.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): And this is perhaps very intrinsic to European mindset and really PR but in reality we stay very important to include within a presentation exchange protocol an option at least to establish those data agreements between a holder and a verifier when we looked at existing work we realized that there was some ground work done by qantara with their consent receipts but they were.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): were they could be applied to any digital.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): We're not very specific to us as I Frameworks and we had our own company had developed our own specific verifiable consent data model and protocol but really no proposal worldwide had received may your adherence and so when we were working at the SF lab there was another project called the automated data agreement led by I grant I owe that built on top of Cantara consent receipts to allow.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): data privacy Mecca.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Some but to be enforced in the framework the framework of hyper Ledger areas and given you know the strong alignment between their goal and our goal with the content management API we decided to join forces and build something that was a little bit more generic Beyond hypervisor areas framework and so we built a single initiative between Iran Tayo and ourselves and so what we built is this respect basically it's a dance.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): data model the respect proposes that the.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): To manage data agreements that are built on top of automated at agreements and Cantera consent receipts so they're all kind of compatible it's just building upon and it also defines a protocol and the mechanisms to embed these data agreement into a presentation exchange which could then be supported by multiple exchange standards.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Um we also in the presentation exchange what we worked is we knew there were a lot of effort in this specific API what we did is to focus on the Dave's presentation exchange data model which was when we were looking at it by far the most widely accepted perhaps because it's compatible with multiple exchange protocols such as choppy Datacom they desire this HTTP a HTTP API.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): is etcetera Etc.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): It is instead of trying to build everything from scratch we took that as a groundwork and try to analyze what should be added or changed and in an Essence what we did is to propose three additional features one is the linkage to the data agreements I mentioned before the second one was support for Mutual authentication which is basically to enable a holder to know the source of a presentation definition.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): so to validate so to speak.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Source of of that verifier so avoid facing problems improve the user experience when presenting that into a wallet and to add additional security especially when we're changing Channel channels and using the The Cure reading mechanism and the third additional feature that we proposed wear mechanisms to improve the link between the credential subject the ones they did in the presentation.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): The person managing the wallet which is very important when we're talking about illegal use cases or use cases where you need to abide to some legal framework so those were the three kind of add ons that we proposed and we can see that also in the in the respect I will send the links later and at this point what we did is when we implemented this API we provided support for the ID sign up as a starting point.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): although it should be able to support any.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Communication protocol really and finally which is the issue resolution so when we looked at the is wrestlers and one of the major challenges we saw in SSI models is how to trust the Easter of credentials what is this trust framework I should use and in SSI really is a verifier of responsibility to decide which trust framework to trust which issuers they want or are.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): are willing to trust or not.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): And there were many different trust Frameworks there are really from technical level vertical level National versus regional levels there are many different crafts Frameworks depending on the specific use case so what we wanted to do here is really to take a step back on all of these different tribes frame words and Define a super generic approach to quit worrying whether an issuer is part of.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): of a specific Trust.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Work and there were many initiatives when we started building the extra resolution API fraunhofer was working on train week was working also on a specific Discovery and interoperability Yellow Pages type of initiative piano with their credential catalog and one of the most advanced ones that we saw was the FCS if project with their trust framework which has been evolving over the last couple.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): couple of years so what we did is to do.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Posey's API that could be compatible with any of those trusts Frameworks and we actually test it against the absolute framework and our own proprietary trust framework to see if it could work with and Trust framework so those were the results in terms of delivery is what we did is to build the specifications those were delivered in respect you have here the links there is kind of an umbrella spec which is the very fire Universal interface and then.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): then we have some respect one for each of the apis.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): We also documented the apis as Waggers you have there the the to apa documentation links and finally very important what we try to do is to build an open source Library where other Technologies could try Implement those apis in a fast way it's not it doesn't offer the complete functionality of a verifier relief but it does offer all the core implementation of these apis.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): yes so that may be very.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Of you that want you to test and try out those apis so next steps for us really do you want to join please do so we have a groups that I owe our mailing list we meet every couple of weeks if you want to be an implementer and contributing to the definition of those apis very very welcome we want as many voices as possible included in this specs definition if you just.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): to be an integrator we're trying to give you the tools so.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Regarding the tools that we've already provided would be very welcome and the ideas I said at the beginning was to migrate all of these to give very shortly so if you are a dismembered you will also be able to contribute very very easily that's all I wanted to explain today about the verifier Universal interface thank you for listening if you have any question please shoot.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you Irena thank you very much for the great work so I wonder if anyone has any questions.
Simone Ravaoli: It ain't it at this point.
Simone Ravaoli: All right David please go ahead Maybe.
Simone Ravaoli: Do you have any.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): There was now implicit question into the explanation David thank you for clarifying.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Absolutely I mean we're all about enabling interoperability between all the efforts so definitely invite you to check what the extra resolution APA looks like it's very simple honestly so I think an integration should be fairly straightforward.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you David thank you here and I did have a question which is something that has come up before and also now I know it was asking and mailing list in the question is how does the verifier Universal interface aligns with the verifier API in verifiable credentials.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Please go ahead thanks.
Simone Ravaoli: I wonder if anyone in the group has a response to Jose has to open question around August work happening it was stiff in w3c in that respect I know many of us are kind of participating in both groups let me Dimitri maybe just call out to you I mean if you're available to me are you aware of any this kind of effort happening you have any.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Enter in terms of unifying the diff presentation exchange API and the w3c VC API.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah that there are there multiple teams that participate in both and for example or with transmute has done a lot of work in both the presentation exchange API and is active in the VC API Group I'm in the same place so I think there is a I think there's a lot of interest in aligning the two and I definitely encourage the Gattaca and Universal verifier interface.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Ace team.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Join the VC API calls or or if not open an issue on the VC API spec and say okay these are the things we need to extend to have the universe of their fire API support VCH okay so definitely encourage everybody to participate.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you Dimitri anyone else any as any comment.
Simone Ravaoli: Be one way that we could follow up in this conversation is I think man who had posed that question on our mailing list so Isaiah maybe if you just want to reply to that or you know as chair as we're happy to facilitate that conversation and which may lead to more specific actions like the material suggesting.
Simone Ravaoli: So it feels.
Simone Ravaoli: Torque is right about the it's happening the fact that you're donating it to this crystallized its value but we want to make sure we do we try to keep things and some kind of alignment as we move forward.
<nate_otto_(@ottonomy)_badgr/csky> Simone, I can't unmute at the moment, but could I ask for an updated link to the specs? the link from here to the ReSpec documents isn't working
Simone Ravaoli: Check in the queue I'm I'm wondering you mentioned the connection to trust Frameworks right have you looked at any other existing trust Frameworks you know that it means say I'm looking at in a team Boma he's here in the called Canada's an incredible amount of work on the pan-canadian trust framework is that something that you have had a look at it anymore who's that at all.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Not the Canadian press framework honestly for say we what we've been looking as I mentioned we looked at crane so some generic initiatives and from building trust Frameworks and then on specific implementations which was the FCS if trust framework which is actually in pre-production already and what we try to do is make sure that it worked with all of them and be as generic as possible.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): so in theory.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Work with any trout stream were what we would like us to test it against as many trust Frameworks as possible so the Canadian could be a very good starting point.
Simone Ravaoli: Great thanks and and Tim is on the Q so let him respond thank you Tim go ahead.
Simone Ravaoli: Tim please go ahead would you like to unmute you cannot hear you if you are speaking.
Simone Ravaoli: Well I did see is Playing Tricks on audio often so that may be the case I guess it's a suggestion if you wanted to try to log in through a Safari browser mean if you really willing to go through that household or anything else that you want to share in the chat because at the moment we're not hearing you.
Simone Ravaoli: Meanwhile I wanted to direct your attention it in and has led to the fact that Nate is signaling that the link there is a broken link effectively so if you could double check on it from the risk factors.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Yes the link the link was really okay yeah if you could report that will be more than happy to fix that.
<simone_ravaioli> Nate Otto (@ottonomy) Badgr/CSky
Simone Ravaoli: Okay I'm just I just copy and paste Nate's commenting on the channel yeah.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Did you take note of that. this link to the respec is broken github pages
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Good thanks and by the way I'm standing now I link to the presentation so you can download it with all the relevant links.
Simone Ravaoli: Great yeah that would be very useful and we'll make sure to add this to the minutes and and circulate this info with a wider group.
Simone Ravaoli: So here and I mean I wanted to ask you I mean since we have a bit more time if you could maybe share maybe a bit more about your experience in working in the you know in the EPS ecosystem you know as part of one of the leading I guess organization is also been recently labeled as one of the first MC conformant wallet is there any highlights of you know could share from your stud earrings trying to build up that.
Simone Ravaoli: Is the European ecosystem around.
Simone Ravaoli: Was infrastructure there and the role verifiable credentials.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): I'm not sure what's the main focus of interest of this working group regarding our experience there what I can do is just briefly explain.
Simone Ravaoli: The UK's Department maybe yeah so the focus on I know you're piloting you were one of the early adopters supporting one of the early adopters so the use case diploma would be I guess most most relevant for this group.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Okay so one of the work we've been doing with a few early adopters is working typically there to use cases that member states another organizations are implementing one is what they call SSI in general but in reality what they were talking about is about issuing national identity credential by the relevant National.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): it that.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): And of the national ID like the the driver's licenses in the United States for instance or any other national ID so that verified credential that is somehow Genesis credential for then issuing an authenticating that specific citizen into services or or in order to download other type of credentials so that's typically the starting point and then the way they make use of that credential.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Lynn early adopters.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Project is to implement or to use the credential to authenticate a student into a higher education type of scenario the typical scenario is to download an academic diploma so I identify myself as a citizen using the national ID credential issued by my National Authority and then I access my universities portal and I download my academic diploma and I authenticate myself.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): self using that that verifiable.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Which is in the jargon of of hep C there are other use cases in the higher education space that we've worked on which involved cross-border scenarios one of them is very interesting what they do is they involve there is a Consortium of eight universities to start their to universities involved in the project and what they do is it's University is using student IDs using verifiable credentials to set of students and then those students.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): what they do is in Europe probably many of you know there are a lot of.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Opportunities where you can go and study a semester abroad in any other university well what they do is to implement those cross-border scenarios where students move temporarily to a another University they do a semester there and then they go back to the university and complete their studies these in reality like how it works today is a nightmare in terms of paperwork because the destination University needs to receive.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): save transcript of record.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): It's of the University of origin verify that that's true and then issue new transcript of records with the new signatures or subjects that are studied in that destination University and the that packets needs to be brought back to the home University so today it's a really a nightmare and verify your credentials could help so the use cases involves that we're all of these transcript or records are issued in in the format of a verifiable credential and actually in abscess trust scheme.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): ah registry there is already a schema for a transcript.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Implement these use case as a we've implemented that how a student essentially gets his or her student ID and then downloads his transcript of Records goes to the destination University download presents or accesses the destination University resources using his or her or you know student ID and then once that person completes the studies downloads new transcript of records and brings them back to the.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): the home University and presents all of that information in.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Come see us in brief filed by the chips that's the other use case we've been actively working on and then in parallel to all of these work with universities and governments across Europe what we've been doing is validating our wallet to be AB c-- compliant or Absecon format as they as they say there is a they recently released to the public their AB c-- conformance test which anyone can now access and try to.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): to implement it is.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): It is a fairly simple process if you've been engaged in Epsom specs if not you have to read a lot of technical specifications and there they were very simple at the beginning now they're trying to automate everything and it will be mandatory to pass these tests for it and it may your what it really is but that's a starting point to enable interoperability among what it providers.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you here in it and Dimitri's on the Queue Dimitri please go ahead.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Thanks yeah this this use K sounds really exciting I wanted to ask do you by any chance have a link to the documentation to the data model of the student ID credential.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): I think this is not public information but let me see what I can get.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I've thank you so much the reason I ask is with the DCCC wallet where we're also starting to work on a student ID use case and it would be great if our data models could interrupt so we'd love to be able to interrupt with your wallet.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Okay let me just try to get the whether that data model for student IDs I'm transcript of records are public domain and if so I'll be more than happy to forward it to your door to the whole globe working group no problem.
Simone Ravaoli: Injury I have a follow-up question myself so it ain't it is how does the data model for a transcript that you're using compared to what is happening or being used inside the europass products of the the your best learner Mobility is there a relationship between the two initiatives in technically I mean from your perspective.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Yes absolutely within the European commission are very aware that there has been already a lot of efforts in Europe has but also the universal student while the European student ID sorry so actually the student ID schema for the refile credentials have been concentrated and built upon the work that was already there and in agreement with all member States involved in.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): AB c--.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): So yes there is alignment between what was existing clear to FC in terms of data models and what is being defined for the schemas within the SSI ecosystem.
Simone Ravaoli: All right great so I'm wondering if this Tim Boomer would you like to unmute give it a try again.
Simone Ravaoli: Loud and clear sir go ahead.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you Tim.
Simone Ravaoli: Okay so no one in the queue any other curiosity or what's happening in Europe from from the group here.
Simone Ravaoli: Well if not I think we might be in a position to close early this week and as as I said we'll follow up in the mailing list showing some of the links and maybe presentation that it ain't made available today and look forward to continued to just keeping I guess different regions connected in terms of the development so it feels like.
Simone Ravaoli: There is well.
Simone Ravaoli: They are concurrent initiatives around whether it's wallets or verification procedures or even trust frame so this group here like all the others that are working on the same issues you want to stay abreast of what's Happening possibly if you so that we work on the interrupt players across the difference in the different initiatives.
Simone Ravaoli: All right so just as a note next week you know for the Europeans are called we will see meet at 4:00 p.m. Central European Time and for the next couple weeks until we also switch times so if you have the calendar inviting your calendar that there should be no problem and so we'll see everyone next Monday at 4:00 p.m. Central European Time or 11.
Simone Ravaoli: A.m. eastern division.
<taylor> Thank you!
Simone Ravaoli: Check the queue once again making sure we don't leave anyone behind there you go all right thank you everyone for being here see you next week ciao.
Irene_Hernandez_(GATACA): Thank you all.
Simone Ravaoli: Thank you very much here and I thank you it was a long to have you.