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VC API Task Force

Transcript for 2022-04-05

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Manu Sporny: Right welcome everyone to the April 5th 2022 VC API call our agenda is here.
Manu Sporny: On the agenda today we let me go ahead and get this set up on the agenda today we've got.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> is the VC-API openapi spec hosted somewhere?
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> i tried looking for it today couldn't find it
Manu Sporny: Just relevant Community updates some test Suites that we've been working on around the issue and verifier just pointing people to the BC API and wallet protocol analysis document that's ongoing and then issue processing after that so should we use the presentation explain exchange spec for the query format.
Manu Sporny: Did web.
Manu Sporny: The key instead of verification method mediator hold mediated holder exchanges use case documentation and then other issues any other updates or changes to the agenda anything folks want to discuss today.
Manu Sporny: I think my mood you had a question about where the OAS spec is posted.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah last week or week before I think Mike updated the OAS back also it's really hard to find where that's from like the from our spec will be really nice if we can fix that.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> oh ok awesome
Manu Sporny: Yes so there's been an issue that I think Chris Abernathy has had assigned to him to fix the build process so the commits that Mike put together yesterday broke the spec and broke the build and all that kind of stuff and I think we're just waiting on Chris Abernathy to go in and fix that and if Chris doesn't get to that by this weekend I will go in and fix that.
Manu Sporny: Everything is broken right now.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: No just checking if it's mirror.
Manu Sporny: Nope nope everything is just broken right now.
Manu Sporny: Let's go ahead and get started then.
Manu Sporny: Sorry I'm juggling windows.

Topic: Agenda Review, Introductions, Relevant Community Updates

Manu Sporny: So the first topic is agenda review introductions relevant Community updates any any Community updates that anyone wants to share.
Manu Sporny: All right I'm think most of you are on the weekly call earlier today the charter the VC to working group Charters out for vote so just heads up on that if you know who your AC rep is make sure they're aware to look out for a charter boat that will be open for about a month after the vote opens and of course the.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> absolutely
Manu Sporny: VC API is a topic of conversation in the wallet protocol analysis stuff so there's protocol section to that document that goes into things the VC API with a VPR can and can't do that's a particular interest to the trace folks I think Mom would so if you don't mind conveying that to Horry and mic Pro Rock on the trace call I think that would be be good.
Manu Sporny: Any other.
Manu Sporny: Any updates before we move on.

Topic: VC API Issuer/Verifier Test Suites (WIP)

Manu Sporny: Alright next up is.
Manu Sporny: VC I don't know why I put hdp in there the VC API issuer verifier test Suites so let me go ahead and share my screen here.
Manu Sporny: There is can everyone see this.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> yes
Manu Sporny: Okay let me go ahead and.
Manu Sporny: Okay so there is.
Manu Sporny: So we've had a test Suite we've had kind of like this all-encompassing test suite for a while I think my mood correct me if I'm wrong or not I think the trace folks have their own test Suite that they have for traceability stuff is that right okay.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yes we have our own it's a trace that General it's all posting based rather than being jobs replaced by yes.
Manu Sporny: Okay okay so there's that thing what we found meaning just bizarre found was that we needed just some basic tests to test the spec that we're working on in this group and that it's basically like just the most basic issue or test and just the most basic verifier test based on the Json schema and everything else that we had in the spec so.
Manu Sporny: We've had to engineer.
Manu Sporny: From our side work on a verifier interop test suite and an issuer interrupt test Suite it only checks the spec as it exists today right so we have these kinds of tests in here there are four categories so the verifier in points that we have right now are for verifying a credential and verifying a presentation there's a data Integrity version of it and a JWT version of it.
Manu Sporny: So this is like the verifiable credential data Integrity test right there and this is just the things run on a on a regular basis right so I think we're going to run it on a nightly basis but the only thing this test report reports back on is verifier tests so if you have a b c API verifier implementation you can point this test suite at it and it will run all the tests that we have.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> we haven't updated our endpoint
Manu Sporny: Her the VC API spec to be clear here I don't think my mood I don't think we've gotten kind of credentials from from you or measure transmute yet right so these are only failing because authentications failing and we can't access the apis right but the second that we get that in point in there then all of a sudden will see certain things working these things over here.
Manu Sporny: Are all these greens over here are.
Manu Sporny: Because these are negative test so it's basically saying it must not verifier if at context property is missing but the reason we're getting the proper response code quote-unquote the proper response code is because authentications failing so it's like oh yeah the verification failed but the verification failed because we failed to off not you know the actual Caulfield itself so this is a work in progress and will need further work.
Manu Sporny: For it too.
Manu Sporny: Really really test the spec the other thing of course is that you know all of these tests this prove these proof type tests make no sense for the JWT version of it and so will have different tests for the the JWT version of it in most of these tests are negative tests right so we have one positive test that says does the verification succeed or not for a valid BC and then everything else here are you know - tests these tests.
Manu Sporny: It's also test the.
Manu Sporny: Json schema itself so whatever Json schema we're defining in the be Capi OS file is what's being tested here in some of these things well anyway so all that to say that we found some bugs in the Json schema as well as we went through it Mahmud you're on the queue.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Are the test right now actually that's the idea and their codes or is it just you know status code is it right or.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> sounds fun
Manu Sporny: Status it's checking the status code right now which it's so this is a problem with the current test Suite or or the spec or both right so this this testing uncovered like a whole bunch of concerns that we have like like I think I think we're using the exact same error code for an authentication failure versus actual verification failure in so we met as a group want to look into that.
Manu Sporny: It I think I think we're doing the wrong thing in the in the spec right now anyway I mean this is good this is why we build test Suites and you know do that kind of testing a couple of other things on the on the test Suite so this is the verifier here's the there's also one for the issuer so these are the issuer and points Force reload this.
Manu Sporny: At the end this is what the issuer you know endpoint testings looking like so for jots and for you know data Integrity stuff so as you can see like there are a lot of failures across the board the the matter Maven that measure well I don't know why measures passing but you know these failures are just because we're failing authentication but as you can see digit bazaars failing a couple of things here like for example.
Manu Sporny: All credentials.
Manu Sporny: Must be an array the Json schema says that but that is non-compliant with the VC data model so we uncovered a bug in the Json schema in again this is why we write test Suites to make sure that you know the the things that we actually have in the scheme I actually follow you know the other specs so again this this test we just dues issuing and of course the grand plan is to.
Manu Sporny: To export each one of.
Manu Sporny: Each one of these test Suites on a nightly basis and then export the data so that we can do one gigantic roll up test for the entire ecosystem to see you know which implementers Implement which features and you know what's conformant what isn't that kind of thing so these are because it's kind of the first approach to the kind of having more smaller more focused test Suites a couple of other things that.
Manu Sporny: The engineers here focused on.
Manu Sporny: Is breaking all the implementations out into their own repo and having Secrets environmental secrets so that we don't have to the implementers don't have to keep going into every single one of these GitHub repos and setting up all of their endpoints and secrets you know across 10 20 30 40 different test Suites so we're working on extracting that out so that implementers can just set up their implementation and points.
Manu Sporny: In one place.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> does the w3c ccg github org have the ability to set org level secrets?
Manu Sporny: And then basically just basically like make it easier to manage and then that sort of thing any questions on that.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah I had a question does the ccg Oregon GitHub have the blade is that for a couple secrets.
Manu Sporny: No so these are running off of so this is the read this is one of the things we need to chat about today VC API is a work item in ccg and in theory all these test Suites are work items as well but I did not want to presume and just move the test Suites over to ccg I wanted to see if this group thought that like the appropriate thing to do would be to move these these test Suites over if that's.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> that would make a ton of stuff easier
Manu Sporny: Ccg has the ability to create organizational organization-wide Secrets like environmental secrets that we can pull into a variety of different repositories I guess the question to like the implementers would it would be like are you okay with us doing that like in theory you should be able to set your configure software so that you give.
Manu Sporny: You know oauth token or z cap to ccg to just run the tests like you can't you know do production e things with it and you can't do like 5 billion calls against the API with it and for that reason we think that having environmental Secrets shared across all these different repos and like one implementation you know configuration repo is probably going to help everybody to just set it.
Manu Sporny: Once and then not have to worry.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> we don't have oauth scopes in vc-api
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> atleast not defined
Manu Sporny: About it again do folks would folks well the first question is would there be any implementer of that would be opposed to setting environmental secrets so that we can access their apis in ccg and then the second question is does having just one repository with all the VC API implementation just configs sound like it's going to be beneficial.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> on our end we're happy to do that
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: A couple points overall I think like on my even upside we're happy to do that the one thing I want to point out is that we don't actually have any obstacles to find in the VC API so it's going to end up being that each org limits the w3c access in whatever way they want and so you know it's not going to be a standardized I'm getting up.
Manu Sporny: I think I see what you're saying.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: We've taken a stab at having some on the trace interrupt side but I know there's been a lot of pushback on it on the VC API calls.
Manu Sporny: You mean having Scopes like defining scopes.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah the finding Scopes or using like asking the first place.
Manu Sporny: Yeah I think what we were what I what internally we have that discussion I think because of the pushback on that we made it just like a configuration option like you can set configuration options to specify you know the Scopes and in that kind of thing.
Manu Sporny: I anyway I think we're just going to have to talk to all the implementers to see how they what they're thinking and maybe the implementers get together and Define what you know if they want a common set of Scopes defining that.
Manu Sporny: As part of just the test Suite implementation.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> yeah if we restrict it to test suite i dont see pushback happening
Manu Sporny: That's my mood would you like that's the only way I can think of to do that.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: No no I think if we just restrict that's me I don't think there's going to be any perspective I think that makes a ton of sense.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think the biggest push back was if we put it on a spec like VC API spec level but I can't talk to people working in love.
Manu Sporny: Okay okay well let's let's just start you know by defining that for the test Suite itself and then we can have the open that old wound back up you know in in a couple of weeks or months if we if we if the implementers get to the point where they have agreed on you no scopes and that kind of thing.
Manu Sporny: Okay let's see I think the other thing of note here is that digital bazaars authorization mechanism RZ caps so we have that implemented as a authz mechanism but we will of course also support oauth 2 okay that's it I think for the test Suites any other questions concerns.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> excited to get it working!

Topic: VC API and Wallet Protocol Analysis

Manu Sporny: I like The Artsy mechanism mistake that the transcriber meant okay next up is the VC API and wallet protocol analysis discussion that link in here.
Manu Sporny: So let me open that here as well so as some of you probably have seen the there's been a huge discussion about open ID connect and did Cam and chappy and every everything right and that has resulted you know it started out kind of as like a comparison.
Manu Sporny: It was a it was a wallet invocation comparison at this point like how do you invoke a wallet and then once you invoke a wallet what protocols can you run over it so it had to do with presentation exchange data models like VP are you know IDC for VP and diff pecs and Aries I forget what this stands for PPI the presentation proof protocol.
Manu Sporny: End it also discussed presentation exchange protocols like VPR it's really be C API and YDC for VCI and for VP and then wacky did come V2 in this is you know this is the column that this group is most familiar with than working on in there's been an attempt to try and compare it against some of the other protocols because there was a lot of confusion about.
Manu Sporny: About what does what and.
Manu Sporny: And that conversation is actually resulted in a good everyone I think learning something about the other protocols and where the boundaries are and what that protocol supposed to do and when it's not supposed to be due and in that kind of thing right so the teasing apart of chappie from oid see and why they're very different I think was a useful outcome there for those that are engaged in that discussion all all I think all we're doing here.
Manu Sporny: Is just pointing out that.
Manu Sporny: This document exists in their conversations happening there was a lot of conversation in the in the Google sheet last week during this call people like please make it into a Google doc that was done over the weekend and now conversation continues here there are some conversations that are you know in line here there's some conversation that's happening you know in the margins over here my.
Manu Sporny: Question is that.
Manu Sporny: Not in the wall discussion so this is probably more to the trace folks you might want to take a look at what's being said about VC API and BP are here to see if you agree disagree or want to comment on it so that work continues it's also work in progress who knows when it's going to end but the conversations bearing a decent bit of fruit part.
Manu Sporny: Out of.
Manu Sporny: There have been other things that have come up during that conversation like does the exchanges and point need authorization so if some of you are unaware of this conversation that's you know 40 to 45 long there's tons of like flow diagrams in here VCA pi plus VP are as well as let's see ones for open ID right in.
Manu Sporny: Why DC and choppy and that kind of stuff so there's a lot of really good discussion that's happening here around wallet protocols right so just a heads up that we've we are having active discussion around all to see around VC API here there has also been an issue raised about how do you detect client features like do you support.
Manu Sporny: Which did methods do you support.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> yes
Manu Sporny: Which crypto sweets do you support Muhammad my understanding is that Trace abilities doing that kind of negotiation through did web is that is that right.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> sorry background dogs
Manu Sporny: Yes okay so Mom and said yes and chat channel so NASA we should you know probably talk about you know how VPR does it versus how did web does it I think did web is the server saying it's just their different different ways of expressing what did methods and what crypto Suites you support in there's a way of publishing the information.
Manu Sporny: Ian through.
Manu Sporny: Reopen IDC Discovery and there's ways of expressing that information in a in a did document like it did web document and then this example has you expressing that information in line and the did author request itself with by saying you know you accept certain did methods and accept certain crypto sweets so we should probably there that discussion is kind of ongoing there as well.
Manu Sporny: All this to say that.
Manu Sporny: It protocol discussion has generated a number of big discussions in the VC API issue tracker as well any questions concerns before we move on to the next item.

Topic: Should vc http api use PE Spec for query format?

<manu_sporny> Should vc http api use PE Spec for query format?
Manu Sporny: All right if there are none the next item is issue 174 issue 174 ask the question on whether or not the VC HTTP API should use the presentation exchange specification for the query format.
Manu Sporny: This is raised by Ori.
Manu Sporny: It was assigned to you my mood but automatically.
Manu Sporny: It sounds like everyone you know it sounds like most of the folks here are implementing VPR is there anyone here that is working with presentation exchange and VC API.
Manu Sporny: Is anyone planning to implement presentation Exchange in VC API.
Manu Sporny: Okay does anyone know of anyone that is going to implement presentation Exchange and be Capi.
Dave Longley: Might be the case that secure key has based on that Mike's comment on the screen.
Manu Sporny: Yeah you're right.
Manu Sporny: Okay um what if folks want to do I'm the VP our supports arbitrary query languages and presentation exchange could be one of those that that can be just injected in at some point in the future.
Manu Sporny: As Mike has elaborated here.
Manu Sporny: I want to say that in the VP R-Spec.
Manu Sporny: We want to stay silent until someone actually implements it.
Manu Sporny: Thoughts feelings one way or the other.
Dave Longley: The seems like it would end up falling under the same sort of things that came up with the VC data model with terms of use and evidence and things like that where we can talk about there are in VPR we Define a couple of very simplistic query languages or query types that cover a lot of use cases but.
Dave Longley: You something else just you know as Mike has shown his example here you can use a different Korean language and we can say where that goes and we I'm not sure if if we wanted to use an example of something else probably the best thing to use as an example of something else is probably.
Dave Longley: Presentation exchange language.
Manu Sporny: Okay so maybe it's Show an example using presentation Exchange in VPR.
Manu Sporny: Well how about this does anyone believe presentation exchange should be a top-level primitive in the VC API.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> i don't think it should
Manu Sporny: As we do I mean VPR is a top-level primitive right now my mood is saying no I don't think it should.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Well it's not a little bit I don't think it should because they don't think there's enough support for it in the sense of if we get a bunch of people asking for it that I'm all I'm very happy to add it in but as right now.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: We're like.
Dave Longley: -1 Because it can travel in VPR
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Trying to find people who use it and the spec is already big enough as is I don't think we need to look for more.
Dave Longley: Yeah I agree we shouldn't make it a top level primitive right now especially because we have a place where any query language can travel in VPR so you know we've got a we have a place to slot that in and to slide in any any other query language that might become popular over time that other people come up with.
Manu Sporny: It would there be any objections if we put a 7-Day close on this I did ask Mike if secure keep plans to work on the area.
Manu Sporny: And we can put a 7-Day close on it and Mike can you know object or say no no no we are planning on implementing this and in we can keep it open.
Manu Sporny: Okay not hearing objections that plan of action.
Manu Sporny: And then clothes.
Manu Sporny: K next up.

Topic: did:web issuer uses publicKey instead of verificationMethod

Manu Sporny: Did web this was raised by Charles a while ago almost a year ago more than a year ago did web the issuer uses public key instead of verification method.
Manu Sporny: This is really it is in the test Suite isn't it but look he is no longer in did Coke or lean into verification method.
Manu Sporny: Is anyone expected to support public key for backwards compatibility I think the suggestion is like no definitely not.
Dave Longley: -1 To support publicKey
Manu Sporny: Yeah this dude document was using an older context.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> yeah its outdated
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> i think its good to close issue
Dave Longley: +1 To close
Manu Sporny: I think the clear answer here is its outdated nobody but should be using public key if anybody's using public key it's a bug everyone should be using verification method okay well moons agreeing Dave's agreeing okay so the any any objections to closing this issue based on that.
Manu Sporny: It was agreed that public key is out of date and shouldn't be used and patient method should be used instead closing do we need to fix anything here.
Manu Sporny: This is in the super super old test Suite which doesn't exist here anymore also the test Suite does not live in this repository anymore and you.
Manu Sporny: Don't use public key cleansing.
Manu Sporny: All right that one's closed.
Manu Sporny: An up is mediator holder X mediated holder exchanges.

Topic: Mediated Holder Exchanges

Mahmoud Alkhraishi: The median holder exchanges so I went through it when I was trying to do some cleanup it's basically ready to be closed except for the last bit where it's a call-out to fix our spec and add some diagrams and I didn't want to close it because our spec is broken I didn't know what exactly is the current state so that's basically just where we are it's ready to close assuming that the spec diagrams are.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Are up-to-date.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: There was a lot of really good discussion on it but we've already talked old exchanging from cigarettes.
Manu Sporny: Okay we need so we need to make sure that the diagrams in the specification are up.
Manu Sporny: And updated it's not right.
Manu Sporny: Okay yeah we don't have that diagram.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah so there's diagrams so we need to make sure that we have an exchange diagram that shows that you can just do holder to holder I guess or like just a direct exchange without the need for an issue in the middle but I don't think we have that diagram we but I can't you know say yes or no without actually looking at the cream which is.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: But we also do.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: A lot of diagrams and there's a bunch of issues outlining the missing diagrams so I don't know if it makes sense to keep this open or to point out like I think there's I know there's at least like five or six issues with X diagrams missing.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Then maybe Market ready for PR.
Manu Sporny: Well I mean I it doesn't hurt us too much to keep it open and just say hey someone's got to create a diagram here right because it becomes really easy to close this when the diagram exist in the spec that okay yep sounds good.
Manu Sporny: All right there we go.
Manu Sporny: One Respec extension I'm trying to work on trying to find some spare time to work on is emerge mermaid JS renderer for Respec so that we can just you know do the flow diagrams there in the meantime you can use mermaid JS to create the flow diagram and just copy the SVG over by my hope is that we'll be able to do inline SVG Auto generation who knows at some point in the future all that to say.
Manu Sporny: That if you can.
Manu Sporny: A mermaid Jazz save the source code use the SVG today but we will hopefully have a life ranger.
Manu Sporny: Some point in the next couple of months.
Manu Sporny: Okay that's media to hold the exchanges ready for PR.
Manu Sporny: Anything else on that before moving on.

Topic: Retro-documentation efforts towards UCR documentation

Manu Sporny: Okay this is documentation around use cases.
Manu Sporny: So here's 180.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So there was nothing actionable here and the end of the conversation was basically we don't need to open a new repo from the document and as far as I know we're completely done with the use case requirements Gathering right we just don't know we didn't talk about if it's going to be added to the spec in any way.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: But yeah.
Joe Andrieu: Let me let me time in on that.
Joe Andrieu: So I don't think the use case work is complete I do think we've exhausted the momentum we got from the last call for input but I know Eric was working through a number of diagrams to convert to which we were going to convert to mermaid JS actually so I know there's still some work to be done there and our expectation was that that would be maintained as a separate document which is a pattern we did for.
Joe Andrieu: The did use cases in the VC use case.
Manu Sporny: Okay that sounds good okay so let's see this on the 2022 405 call Joe provided an update to note that out that work continues on these cases documented.
Manu Sporny: Speculation is that it will be placed to its own repository after it has been cleaned cleaned up.
Joe Andrieu: Another another process now just for folks who maybe haven't been through this before the my experience I came in late to the VC use case work but was there for the whole did you use case and I expect we're gonna have a similar pattern here which is there's a lot of activity up front as people are trying to define the work through the use cases and then as the API matures we're going to realize some of the use cases that are important maybe weren't in that first batch so the use cases tend to be an ongoing documentation as consensus.
Joe Andrieu: It develops so I expect that work to continue alongside state.
Manu Sporny: Yep plus 1 to that okay so the next the next step here is let's see.
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> next step is status update and roadmap on usescases
Manu Sporny: Joe is is the expectation here that Eric's going to take the use cases document in make it into a Respec like thing and then we'll publish in a ccg repo.
Joe Andrieu: I think that is the right plan it would be good to memorialize it here I don't know if the use case document is currently a ccg work item so we may need to inject that step before we move it over but that feels like the right way to go.
Joe Andrieu: As a precursor to whatever we're going to Charter the VC API work to be done under.
Manu Sporny: Right that does create a question at least for me the next time you the current is to take the current use cases document and convert it into a nice pack adopt it as a ccg work item so so I'm wondering if the BC API is already a ccg work item do we do we really need to make the.
Manu Sporny: Item and then what about test Suites like do all of those need to be taken one at a time or does the fact that we decided to work on VC API mean that we can just like a working group does like break that work up in whatever form we see fit.
Joe Andrieu: I think that's a great question for the current chairs I know you know when Chris Kim and I were running saying is we would have treated them as separate work items I think you could it could go either way.
Joe Andrieu: I don't think I've chartered limited is what I'm saying.
Ted Thibodeau: We should not need distinct work items for UCR docs or test suites on things we've already set up as work items [scribe assist by Ted Thibodeau]
Manu Sporny: Okay yeah my concern is yeah got gotcha yeah my concern is you know a lot of process over these documents but yeah okay so we'll put a question out to the mailing list ccg work item if necessary and publish as.
Joe Andrieu: There's yeah there's no reason that a work item has to be one-to-one map to a repo so maybe we could just create two new repos under that work item.
Manu Sporny: Yep okay well we'll put it out to the mailing list because this is I don't know if we've ever asked that question on the mailing list of the chairs before okay but next step here is to take the current use cases document converted to Respec adopted as a ccg work item if necessary and publish as a separate Repository.
Manu Sporny: All right does anyone know Eric's GitHub handle.
Manu Sporny: Maybe he's not a part of this maybe he's not a part of the CC no I thought he was added.
Manu Sporny: If you don't mind you once you find the his handle if you can add it to the bottom here so we know it who who it's assigned to.
Manu Sporny: And ideally we can remove my mood from this and just put Eric as The assignee.
Manu Sporny: All right we're out of issues and we have 10 went not we're not out of issues we got to the bottom of our list.
Manu Sporny: Let's see next item up um.

Topic: Ensure that GNAP can be an Authorization protocol extension authorization

Manu Sporny: I'm sure that can app can be an authorization protocol extension.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So there was a merge commit to this a while ago but that doesn't actually isn't.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: The spec right now does not mention enough as far as I can tell in anyway so I'm not really sure if this is even still an issue if you go to the authorization section right now we have two parts on it we have a forbidden authorization we have an oauth 2.0 authorization and I believe there was an issue at one point that said we can add a good nap one here but I also can't remember if we resolve that yes or no.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: This issue however.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Doesn't do anything like it's an issue that has a PR that's emerged but doesn't actually you know have an action item.
Manu Sporny: Got You Justin my memory was that we've selected this language very carefully to ensure that it was Kanab compatible do you know if that you do you have the same agree.
Justin Richer: So I mean I remember going around and around about the language and honestly what's in there is practically an on statement because it says if you do this then you're allowed to do what's in that spec which makes absolutely no sense to have as a normative requirement whatsoever and so.
Justin Richer: There's there's so much in here that is so ill defined that technically you are correct that this does allow somebody to use an app it also allows somebody to use smoke signals I mean I could get completely absurd and come up with a perfectly compliant way to.
Justin Richer: Comply with this section it is.
Justin Richer: From a specification and interoperability standpoint functionally useless dead weight.
Manu Sporny: Okay so what are the concrete.
Manu Sporny: What's what's the concrete thing where's the concrete place we can go from here.
Manu Sporny: All right so I think what I'm taking away from that Justin is we need to Define more concrete language in the specification that covers authorization mechanisms such as auth to Etc or say nothing at all.
Manu Sporny: Is that a fair summary.
Justin Richer: Are you looking for my approval for that text.
Manu Sporny: Engineer was just a it was a yes one and then General it question to everyone else like we need to write some spec text or we need to just close these issues.
Justin Richer: I strongly believe that the correct answer is to write spec.
Manu Sporny: Okay and I don't think I'm we can try again I know Justin you said you know that doesn't sound like fun to you but you know it's been a couple of months and maybe we can get somewhere with the.
<mike.varley> I joined late but +1 to the comment on 181.
Manu Sporny: Anyway I think this is just a general invitation for whoever wants to feel that kind of pain again to write a write a PR and we will review it and maybe it'll go somewhere this time and maybe the same thing that happened last time will happen again The Next Step here is to write a concrete and we write a PR with more concrete language than exists in the.
Manu Sporny: Shouldn't be related to any authorization mechanism that a proposer would like to see ya I specification so this is ready for PR.
Manu Sporny: Okay that was that item we have three minutes left.
Manu Sporny: Let's go ahead and end on that note primarily because I think this will be more than three-minute conversation okay any other comments concerns that I'm sorry Joe were you on the queue.
Manu Sporny: I just might need.
Joe Andrieu: Yes I think I was I added Eric to also noted we do already have a repo but it's not really up to Snuff so it looks like Eric started on that process and then ran into some difficulties so I'll help him with that.
Manu Sporny: Okay sounds good all right with that thank you everyone for the call today thanks for the discussion we will meet again next week and keep going through these issues we may have a couple more test Suites to share with folks as well thanks everyone have a wonderful day ciao.