The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

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W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference

Transcript for 2022-04-12

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Manu Sporny is scribing.
Heather Vescent: We are talking about NFT identity today. A quick intro to CCG.
<scott_meyer> that link requires sign in?
Heather Vescent: Please sign IPR agreement if you want to join - allows collaboration on work items -- we incubated Verifiable Credentials and Decentralized Identifiers here.
Heather Vescent: There have been a lot of rumblings around NFTs and Identity - Ethereum native identity layer.
Heather Vescent: Hope folks joining today can talk about this -- some reminders before we start.
Heather Vescent: First, reminder -- by participating you are agreement to Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct -- strong opinions here, there are people from many different perspectives and world views -- anyone can become member.
Heather Vescent: You need a W3C account to join.
Heather Vescent: Here's the CGs main page -- from that page, you can join/leave -- need a free account to join.
Hvesscent: These minutes and audio recording are archived -- will send this out to CCG list (minutes) -- if you want to speak, you can type "q +"
Heather Vescent: If you want to remove yourself, "q -"
Heather Vescent: If you want to remind yourself about what you're going to say, you can do "q+ to ... and the thing you want to say"

Topic: Introductions / Reintroductions

Heather Vescent: This meeting is held by voice not IRC so off-topic comments are subject to deletion from the record okay so first thing I want to do is introductions are reintroductions actually I'd like to kind of keep this short because we do have a lot of folks on the call actually I'm going to skip this today.
Heather Vescent: But I will not.
Heather Vescent: Announcements and reminders do we have any Community announcements or reminders if we do please add yourself to the queue.
Heather Vescent: I know I W is coming up does anyone want to make an announcement about IW.
Kaliya Young: It's we're basically sold out.
Heather Vescent: Well congrats on that.
Kaliya Young: Yeah so I wasn't going to announce cuz you can't really buy a ticket anywhere anyway so.
Heather Vescent: Well great what's the cap.
<smagennis> Need a larger venue!!
Kaliya Young: We were going to be capped at 250 but there's still like sponsors who bought tickets and haven't registered their people and stuff and.
Kaliya Young: See where we actually end up right now we're officially to the you know people walking up to the Eventbrite door we're not selling more tickets.
Heather Vescent: Got it cool thanks.
Heather Vescent: Other announcements are reminders.

Topic: NFT Identity

Heather Vescent: Okay okay so let's go straight into nft identity so that we keep the majority of this meeting focus on that at this point I love to hand over to my two partners and putting this together Simone a and Taylor I know each of you have some words you'd like to say so whichever of you wants to go first feel free.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Taylor_(LEF): I can hop in first real quick and I'll make this pretty brief to leave more time for the conversation thank you Heather and Simoni and obviously others that have been behind the scenes working on this as well as all the other work with in w3c and ccg this has been a nice little window into into that sort of administrative world and all that goes into it so yeah I think.
Taylor_(LEF): I'll keep it I'll keep it brief Taylor Kendall I'm with learning economy foundation and we work at the sort of Nexus of of web 3 Open Standards and education and employment so so this conversation is definitely of interest in sort of squarely in the in the sights of what we spend time on so I think what I wanted to bring here really is just I guess some level setting and looking at it at it from a kind of bigger picture and really.
Taylor_(LEF): you judgments aside I mean obviously there's.
Taylor_(LEF): And philosophical views on kind of entities in web 3 and what it means to you know to this work and to just sort of the evolution of Technology broadly and I think I think in in this discussion as well as just sort of this community at large and and and as a society I think it's important both to just listen and make honest attempts to truly hear each other agree or not with you know.
Taylor_(LEF): where this world is evolving I.
<identitywoman> if you really want to come to IIW - we will release some tickets. (cause like 20 people said they would pay at the door - and we are asking them to pay up front or forgo their ticket) ..put yourself on the waiting list on eventbrite.
Heather Vescent: Great thanks Taylor Simone I can I pass it to you and then let you introduce our first speaker.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): Thank you heather hello everyone Simona here my day job is with parchment company working in the digital credentials for Education space specifically higher education and at night or the rest of the time I try to build out the global credentialing ecosystem particularly across education and work in w3c have the pleasure of co-chairing a specific task force that looks at verifiable credentials in the education sector.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): Um and really you know it's w3c is really trying to work on how the web works I think any of these are kind of too big to ignore and although it feels like we're building different camps you know when you try to build consensus across standards or Technologies it's as Taylor said it's not either/or it's and in I guess my hypothesis for this conversation is that.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): Are good for both verifiable credentials and the 80s and with that I mean that there are positive externalities that nft is could bring two standards making and effectively that means adoption because in my view and not just in my view you know the standards only really come through adoption and everything else is just specifications.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): and the way nft.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): Be helping with adoption is that you know they're just getting millions of people on board the to using New Primitives and and tooling that is that are new to web three like setting up a wallet minting and T or just understanding what gasps fees are and he's management and so on and so the cultural attractiveness of something that may look like just your profile picture or that is expressive in terms.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): of representing your identity as.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): A lot of people do on board already and I guess as people are on that Learning Journey they will understand you know what other tools are there what other Primitives that can use and when it makes sense to use verifiable credentials or dids rather than an STS and I guess the idea for this first conversation was to set some kind of Observatory that would bring in different opinions in to elevate the level of the conversation and maybe.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): be as an outcome.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): What are the use cases that are better served by an STS and the ones that are better served by VCS and the ideas or when they could combine and that is really what we wanted to try to instigate with this kind of first chat and to do that we have a number of speakers here that will help us get down this this road and I actually like to call.
Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): on Evan.
Evin: Thank you so much I'm sorry go ahead.

Topic: Elina ( on NFTs

<simone_ravaioli_(w3c_vc_edu)> Hey PL !
Elina: Check can you hear me okay.
Heather Vescent: I can hear you but it is.
Elina: Great and apologies I am feeling a little bit under the weather so my voice might sound a little bit off but great to be here my name is Alina kaduri I am co-founder and CEO IDOC been working in Block Chain space and kind of watching identity space since 2017 and on the topic of NF T's I think I'm kind of hold of what's been said but I think the popularity of NF T's has been really interesting to see because it's.
Elina: really shed light on use cases for.
Manu Sporny: Evans audio went gray it's the only reason I'm saying.
Heather Vescent: Let's see will come back to her Alina are you ready to.
Heather Vescent: Go next.
Heather Vescent: We can hear you great.
Elina: For technologies that are backed or enhanced by blockchain Beyond providing Financial assets and I think what we're seeing now is some of those use cases are overlapping with identity and kind of what we we've been you know working on for a while with identity so things like being able to prove ownership over a digital asset and we're seeing things like POAPs which are proof of attendance protocols so nft s you know a few.
Elina: you attend an event or concert.
Elina: To sing and if T's being used a fork sort of like identity symbols in some ways so for example like showing a status or an endorsement of something and so I think what's great about that makes money was mentioning this really well as it has kind of set the stage up a bit for adoption of VCs with the kind of introducing ways that we can enhance kind of what we're doing using blockchain technology.
Elina: where NF T's fall short.
<bradley_freeman_|_aave> i texted Evin her power went out but she's trying to get back online!
<simone_ravaioli_(w3c_vc_edu)> Here is a bit more rationale of why I think NFTs are good for VCs and DIDs
<bradley_freeman_|_aave> @simone^^
Elina: And I'm going to say at least for now because I know some of these are being worked on but nft is exist on chain so there isn't as much kind of interoperability and accessibility with non-web three applications.
Elina: As we are working on are more kind of traditional web to space and so having you know identity assets so to speak that can be used across different applications is really important whereas an end of T you know it only exists on a theory a morsel on or the chain where it's created and there's kind of number of other issues that go along with that so big one is privacy concerns so if and then if T's being used for an identity there could be.
Elina: be pii data that's being put into the NF.
Elina: On-chain, there's issues of immutability as well there could also be transparency into transactions so you can see that you know nft was in my wallet or someone's wallet it's they're extremely susceptible to fraud kind of see that over and over again with you know the NFTs being issued and sold for millions and it's also very expensive to transact on the blockchain with NF.
Elina: teas with VCs it's.
Elina: Extremely Hina very little to actually issue them and verifying do a lot of the transactions whereas when it comes to nifty's there's there can be very expensive gas fees but I do think that they can work really well together I think VC's can link identity information to NFTs that's tamper-proof and privacy preserving and a few examples of that are for example being able to.
Elina: identify the.
<evin> I'm back! :)
Elina: Real-world identity of an and ft Creator and I could also you know be done for example with like this.
<heather_vescent> See you Evin.
<heather_vescent> We'll have you go after Elina. Thanks.
<taylor_(lef)> Woohoo... she's back :)
Elina: So that you don't actually you know have to know you know see that person's identity but have some sort of verification in place to really prevent kind of fraud knowing that you know the brand or the person behind the end of T is actually who they say they are also being able to prove like reputation of nft sellers so right now kind of you know open sea and a lot of nft marketplaces are you know there isn't a.
Elina: lot of insight into.
Elina: His you know who's interacting they're so being able to kind of have a reputation layer that's connected to NFTs and also being able to prove qualifications taxes and FTS so VCC could be used for example if an FTS are only appropriate for people over certain age you know being able to prove that there is a qualification there or being able to prove for example if an artist wants to issue and if T's just to their fans and so connecting back.
Elina: back to either you know being part of a community.
Elina: And things so I think that made may take the lease on it right now as I think there's some really interesting ways that the two could work together I also think it's really important to understand where NFTs fall short we do kind of talk to different projects sometimes that are wanting to use NF to use for identity kind of use cases so being able to really kind of articulate 11 makes sense when the other makes sense how they can work together is really important.
Elina: so go ahead and stop there.
Elina: And it are back together.
Heather Vescent: I think Selena that's great Evan sounds like you're back you want to do an audio check.

Topic: Evin ( on NFTs

Evin: Yes we are back in Action just had a random power outage so thank you all for your patience but really glad to be here and so pleased that I was able to catch the last few comments want to agree completely there I think that you know and I've teased her wonderful primitive optimized for you know public on chain transferability I'm a huge NFP Enthusiast myself I have ear see 721 tattooed on the back of my neck but I also think that verifiable.
Evin: what credentials are almost like the other side of the coin.
Evin: In the same way that you know nft is offer persistent Global availability verifiable credentials allow for a more flexible and organic form of data to more precisely describe the the more abstract and and evolving data that describes both individuals organizations you know object cetera I'm really excited especially about the nft did method and our ability to append human-readable independently verifiable data.
Evin: for things like promo.
Evin: Being able to bind together the minting keys of an mft with things like a human-readable website Discord server Twitter handle etcetera email address at disco our team focuses on the end users ability to take custody of their verifiable credentials and manage them alongside the activities of sovereign activities that they already undertake in the web three world with their wallets so we see these Primitives.
Evin: complementary to one another.
Evin: You did for for a variety of different use cases and so for those instances in which traits are intended to be non-transferable you know I think that verifiable credentials are an optimal approach I think the limiting factor for VCS right now is the available tooling right we have no way to easily take custody of manage and then leverage our verifiable credentials across ecosystems in a chain agnostic or even web agnostic way web to web three.
Evin: Exposing users to potential security risks down the line and so you know depending on encryption to hold forever making data public in such that we might also make it private by encrypting things you know on chain seems like a an interesting exploration but a temporary solution given the reality of quantum Computing that we know today so I could talk about this forever but I'll pause and and you know welcome other perspectives on this as well.
Heather Vescent: Great thanks Evan fascinating Dominic are you ready to take the take the spotlight talk about what you're doing at will tidy.

Topic: Dominic ( on NFTs

<evin> <3
Manu Sporny: Keep going I got you.
<heather_vescent> Do I restart the recording Manu?
<manu_sporny> heather, no, just leave it.
<heather_vescent> copy that
Manu Sporny: Dominic: I always think that Evin says the most important things -- Evin has a great job. SSI is good to prove who you are, NFTs are good to prove what you own.
Manu Sporny: Dominic: Typical identity related use case -- diplomas, so on, you cannot really use NFTs -- not less scalable more expensive... GDPR -- in europe, you can't do this. You can't anchor DIDs of natural persons on a blockchain.
Manu Sporny is scribing.
Dom: However, you can do other things w/ NFTs -- decouple identity w/ access rights... opens up opportunities for non-human identity -- NFT identity for legal identities, IoT -- SSI is more interesting given costs and scalability.
Dom: I'll leave it at that -- most important things have been said -- Q/A most important for everyone.
<transcriber> Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): Yep confirm he's not here today.

Topic: NFT Questions, Answers, and Discussion

Heather Vescent: We have almost half an hour of discussion here -- if you have questions, add yourself to the queue.
Alan Karp: How to figure out how to unmute just to the last comment about NF T's as authorizations I don't think that's a very good match because you want to be able to do revocation and you also want to be able to delegate without giving up your own ability to use it so I think maybe that's not as good of a pattern as I thought you were in polling.
Heather Vescent: Does anyone want to respond to that.
Heather Vescent: And if you you can add yourself to the queue and even if you were not a presenter and you have a comment on it you can add yourself to the queue because I know we have other folks who work in the space as well on the call.
<transcriber> Evin: Quick response I think you know what you're highlighting part of the challenge right that there's no consent layer on web three wallets so public keys and blockchain ecosystem can be mapped to you know whatever token IDs others would like and so verifiable credentials offer some ability to govern and manage attestations once they've made their way out in the ecosystem granted Reliant Upon A revocation registry or similar or.
<transcriber> Evin: expiration of those.
<transcriber> Evin: Angels regular renewal but you know 22 you're very thoughtful point and ftes have a diminished capability here right once that asset is issued the issue were maintains little to no meaningful control over its validity and can only control that validity by controlling the points of access where might be used.
Dom: You might want to build stronger bonds with communities, revocation might not be necessary -- certain number of skins -- might not need to revoke that.
Dom: Different game diffrent map -- maybe revocation isn't important everywhere... dynamic NFTs -- write smart contracts in a way such that NFT is used in a way for access management, smart contract can be changed... NFTs can be burned a certain number of times -- you could build in certain lifecycle management into smart contract.
Dom: If we look at typical identity use cases -- revoke things, maybe not important for every use case.
<bumblefudge> license keys are back, baybee
Heather Vescent: Please thanks Dominic one of the things that you said I thought was really interesting was you're talking about identity for nonhumans like legal entity identifier and I think a lot of identity is important for supply chain use cases where there are objects and we might be tracking them and attaching data Associated to a digital twin or something that you know goes through supply chain I know a lot of us in.
Heather Vescent: This community and.
Heather Vescent: A lot of the use cases for dids and VCS were created around the user Centric identity perspective the human user identity perspective and one of the things I think is really interesting about NF t s is that if we think about them from a human Centric identity we are limiting ourselves to the possibilities we're going to have significantly more non human identity.
Heather Vescent: Key items.
Heather Vescent: Our reality in our world then humans and so I'm just wondering if any of the presenters are anyone who's working in this space wants to comment on the applicability of NFTs to non-human identity.
<bumblefudge> +
<bumblefudge> 1
<transcriber> Evin: Just one note I think so like in you know 2017 he's a lot of experiments around supply chain that leveraged nft S as a representation of physical assets to be sort of passed between wallets representing various parties and without a reputation system policing the behavior of the parties around those objects you kind of lose their a lot of holes in that system and so so I think the combination of NF T's plus you know contextual off.
<transcriber> Evin: Gene data on representation and and reputation of the parties and.
<transcriber> Evin: Drones making choices around those assets being tracked leads to a much more holistic and robust full.
<transcriber> Elina: Yeah just to add to that I think we're seeing something similar where we're seeing and of T's being used to represent kind of the goods that are being transferred or sore you know whatever is being tracked and then a b c's for example could represent the credentialing for whoever is you know the parties involved being able to have that be verifiable and traceable as well and especially we're seeing a lot of it kind of in Pharmaceuticals.
<transcriber> Elina: I'm coming up and then also.
<smagennis> I'm still struggling to get my head around an 'identity' of a non-person vs. and 'identifier' which makes a lot of sense
<transcriber> Elina: A little bit kind of food supply chain as well so that's kind of another example going back to cut being able to differentiate between the two and we're we're species can really have that kind of confidentiality layer representing the people involved and then and of teas can represent actual Goods being being part of the supply chain.
Heather Vescent: Thanks Mike I see you're on the key.
Mike Prorock: Yeah just speaking from the implementation side on you know track and trace on you know physical goods and credentialing and trade and stuff like that there's three kind of key problems that we see from the nft side one is you know even in just using it to act as a digital twin right with no other data attached to it aside from you know what wallet owns it one in one is you know for sure the reputation point that was brought up the second.
Mike Prorock: The privacy and trade concern side.
Mike Prorock: Frankly it's a privacy not nft Zara privacy nightmare right you can trace this stuff down really well for that reason alone they will never see broad adoption because there's too many issues with seeing who transferred from A to B to C etcetera the and then kind of that last piece is just that in this is somewhat related but is that information leakage side right and this is.
Mike Prorock: Part of the reason that we're seeing good.
Mike Prorock: Adoption so far around verifiable credentials as an ocean even whether you even from you know you know and you talk to folks in the industry like I'm thinking in our case of like a Gore egg by-product you know organic type codes things like that you know they're typically they don't care whether it's a verifiable credential or an N of t or whether it uses block it like they genuinely don't care you know aside from maybe some Buzz words for marketing reasons what they.
Mike Prorock: About is their privacy protected are they.
Mike Prorock: Should do a competitor are they only turning over the information required to you know various Regulatory Agencies Etc so there's a lot wrapped up in that topic it's a great topic and I think it's an interesting question but just that chaining of you know who did what or even just the wallet ID of who did what would break it Wars could start over that let's just put it that way so.
<bumblefudge> and he don't mean price wars
<heather_vescent> great question Manu
<shubham> Love the documentation on @Dom
<jay_scambler> Good question
Heather Vescent: Balázs you're on the queue.
Manu Sporny: What lessons from the NFT community has he DID/VC community not gotten? What did we not learn yet?
Manu Sporny: Yeah it's a mostly a question so in this has been great like you know fantastic discussion and I'm you know going back to a statement but that was said at the beginning of the call where you know the VC did Community has a lot to learn from the nft community and the nft community you know could learn a couple of things from the VC and did Community I'm wondering what are some lessons learned.
Manu Sporny: Earned in the nft community that folks feel like the VC and did Community don't quite understand yet right so we heard from Mike you know about the traceability you know aspects and and how how easy it is to trace you know and if these from point A to point B that sounds like a lesson from the BC did side to the nft side but what about from the nft side like like one of the things that comes to.
<scott_meyer> NFTs are fun!
Heather Vescent: Thanks Dom I see you on the Queue your.
Balazs: Non-transferrable NFTs -- DIDs/VCs -- never had to explain what an NFT or non-transferrable NFT was... pretty sure that is something this community has experienced... what is a DID/NFT -- a lot has been removed from flow of making easy decision. Only works for extremely specific use cases.
Heather Vescent: Dominic from Walt's id'd is you want to make a comment.
<dom_|> seems my mic broke
<dom_|> will rejoin
Heather Vescent: Okay we'll skip you and see if you can rejoin and then we'll add you then Simone a your.
<transcriber> Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): Yes so given that the framing of this conversation was also an FDA and identity I wanted to invite a comment from some of the friends that are here from lens protocol Lance has been building an interesting protocol that really relies on nft is to express you know identities but also deeper than that the whole social graph behind and identity and so if you know Oscar you and me or anyone wants to open the mic and share with their.
<transcriber> Simone_Ravaioli_(W3C_VC_EDU): doing I think that would be a great addition to this chat.
Jouni: Hi, I'm from Lens -- met Simone at Invent -- taught me about what's possible... Lens protocol itself, building an open social graph on Ethereum, running on polygon -- cost of transactions concerns are valid -- scaling solutions over time -- polygon is one of them... push cost of transaction down to cents or below -- doesn't matter too much for infrequent transactions.
Jouni: if you think of social graph/twitter -- can be anonymous, up to you for what you do -- profiles, no PII, up to you, doesn't hold location, gender, age, etc. Idea is to break down walls between different existing social protocols, difficult for new projects to complete -- shared public goods social graph, developers can build front-ends, if you're not happy w/ experience, you can build your own interface.
<shubham> @Jouni Why can't we do everything you mentioned using DIDs?
Jouni: Follower relationships with NFTs -- in terms of marketplace activities, you can collect posts made by others -- interesting chats w/ Evin / Disco, kinda quick overview there -- happy to answer questions.
Heather Vescent: Cool thanks Dominic I see your back is your mic working.
<orie> One thing that everyone can do with DIDs, is resolve certain keys to blockchain addresses, and then pull any related transactions for the ledgers.... the graph you get should be empty usually, but sometimes it has interesting history :)
<simone_ravaioli_(w3c_vc_edu)> Thank you @Jouni !
<mprorock> unfortunately i have to jump to a customer call. This has been great - really enjoying the topic and conversation
<mprorock> thanks all
<heather_vescent> Thanks Mike.
Dom: Not sure if it's an answer to Manu's questions or observation -- what NFTs got right was adoption/traction... when we look at SSI, seeing that we're looking at 3-sided marketplace, incentive structures for supply side was difficult -- issuers have been neglected, what NFTs got right is they found use cases by which sources of NFTs, supply side was incentivized to issue NFTs because they benefit from it... crucial for adoption. SSI issuers, difficult,
If we could convince issuers to do their job, they could onboard a lot of people -- potential issuers and apps they have... various populations... incentive structures that lead to adoption. Look at NFT world and how they did that.
Heather Vescent: Thanks Dominic Marty we've got you next on the Queue over.
Orie Steele: +1 To DIDs, NFTs and VCs working together!
Marty Reed: Yeah so plus one Dominic on the rewards network idea I think I think that's absolutely critical so one thing back to man is earlier question about you know would have been if he's gotten right one thing that is really interesting about the nft world is platforms like Open Sea so your average user can go out create in FTS but they are also.
Marty Reed: There also.
Marty Reed: Inefficient smart contracts on open sea but I was curious just globally like anybody answer this question but are there any projects going on right now like an Open Sea in did the SeaWorld or other nft platforms you know that have done a better job with more efficient smart contracts for end-users to you know be able to directly interface with the technology.
Marty Reed: Just going to.
Heather Vescent: Yeah so if anyone has a answer to that can you add yourself to the queue.
Heather Vescent: Or speak up right now.
<shubham> I heard is attemping this!
Heather Vescent: Okay I'll give it a pause oh sorry go.
Jouni: We got protocol there, building front-ends on testnet -- easy, like posting something on Twitter, set different settings on metadata -- issuing NFTs are as simple as posting on Facebook.
Heather Vescent: Great thank someone I saw that you were going to answer the question so we'll skip.
Juan Caballero: Sure thanks I guess I didn't quite understand the question if there are self-serve platforms like Open Sea getting people VCS or using PC's for nft there are two different questions that have different answers.
<orie> its all open source, ethereum testnet
Juan Caballero: Of us sort of self-serve platform so I think that well let's Spruce when I spruce a company I worked for till recently worked on a couple serve platforms that principle.
Heather Vescent: Do we won on certain rep or losing your audio.
<heather_vescent> ROTFL Orie
Marty Reed: Well I just just be seized or dids or those types of things just curious about projects that are out there right now noth-nothing they within ft open sea was just example.
Juan Caballero: Sorry my mistake run Mike so yeah there's a spruce we worked on something called that would issue VC's to people who need them for very similar use cases to what people are used to get a piece for like sort of basic not very sensitive attestations that can be used to gain access to things and there was a project to generalize that in open source called rebase.
<marty_reed> Amazing Orie
<orie> I also work on
Juan Caballero: I mean there's a lot of self serve the sea use cases that people could probably mention here in terms of self-serve dad's I'm not really sure maybe or you can explain better like how different side tree protocols prototypes and variants have sort of a self-serve option.
Juan Caballero: Involuntary so to speak I did if he cute glasses yeah.
<marty_reed> Cool, just an improptu market scan
<jay_scambler> It’s coming though @marty
Shawn Butterfield: Yeah sure I think I can probably make this quick because really +1 to everything that's been said since men whose question like over at Salesforce we are also grappling with this question of how how did NFTs get such great Groundswell of interest and they're on this type curve even internally to our organization we have a huge team that is kind of rallied behind this idea of nft.
Shawn Butterfield: Loud over here that we're playing around with and.
<identitywoman> sounds like we should be writing a explainer to bridge between the two worlds
Shawn Butterfield: It plays into the questions around hey you know it is there a self-serve platform that's trying to start up and discover and ft capabilities relative to commercial interests that's something we're exploring over here and then in addition to that building on the domes topic around the ones really kind of like tackled the adoption problems for issuers that's also something that we're trying to do and so I think that's back to men is question.
<econnell> NFTs applied a narrative
<identitywoman> I have been trying to explain VCs to a key leader in new-econ land for like 3 years - they FINALLY got it when POAPs came was like why!!! why did that make it click for you. I am mystified.
<scott_meyer> seems like NFTs are fun so people figure them out?
Shawn Butterfield: Basics of an N of T and then oh you know I can I can kind of squint my eyes and get to where you know I can apply that to a use case that I think is relevant even though the unreal brooded understanding and the crypto or The Primitives of an mft might not be there people are able to extrapolate upon and if T's easily so I think that's something that we all and I take it upon myself as well need to do a better job of evangelizing and creating really good.
Shawn Butterfield: Being efforts in.
Shawn Butterfield: Season and Dead's and so that's what we're trying to do.
<orie> its fine
Heather Vescent: Great thanks Sean okay Nick you're next and then all I don't know I don't want to cut you Joe or Rory off but we're coming close to time so.
<nintynick> How is this different from a Soulbound NFT?
Heather Vescent: Thanks Nick and Joe.
Meyne: We mint VCs for people to say they support an artist, we don't allow that to be transferred.
Heather Vescent: Over to you final comments.
<pl> It is interesting that in the HE world issuers of things like transcripts (HE institutions) get monetary rewards from the National Student Clearninghouse when the transcript is 'officially' provided to a relying party through the students request to an institution that is routed to the NSC for execution. That monetary benefit is threatened by VCs where the transcript as a VC can be sent directly by the holder to the relying party.
Joe Andrieu: Thanks Heather I just want to share the work I've been doing on entertain identifiers I don't think either party has gotten it right in terms of nft and did camp but this was put together as identifiers for nft so how do I identify and ftes and then we also had identified a use case where the nft has a need to identify things in the real world right so two layers of identifiers happening in that spec and I think that the biggest challenge that.
Joe Andrieu: Folks I've been dealing with have been wrestling with.
<bumblefudge> see also
Joe Andrieu: How do you deal with SIDS from a different chain so if I'm an mft on it cerium how do I do with any other did from any other chains and that's it.
<bumblefudge> ^ A specification for cross-chain NFT identification :D
<orie> yeahs, CAIPs are pretty cool
Heather Vescent: Thanks Joe and actually you set me up the whole question of standards and interoperability was kind of a reason I wanted to invite everyone from the nft camp to come talk in this ECG I think there's a lot of overlap here the ccg our structure here is such that we have a structure for people to be able to collaborate I'm pre standards work on exploratory standards work and that that process.
Heather Vescent: This is called work.
Heather Vescent: And so I hope this is just like the first conversation that we have there's a ton of overlap and what I'd really like to see is if you know those of you guys who are from the NFC Camp to come play in our sandbox here and help us do some work items help us learn the structures that you guys have are working on and and how we can support those goals the goals you have and we can overlap with each other through some of these.
<simone_ravaioli_(w3c_vc_edu)> :+1: part two !
<taylor_(lef)> More to come...thx all :)
Heather Vescent: We'll see you next week we are actually not meeting on the end of the month when IW is happening will send those updates via the list and will send the recording of this session to the list as well.
<oscar_|_aave> Fascinating chat.. thanks everyone is building something on consumer end
<enrico> Thank you!
<bumblefudge> unmusical chairs :(
Sam Curren: Bumblefudge+1