The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

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Transcript for 2022-08-29

<kerri_lemoie> Hello!\
<kerri_lemoie> Sounds good!\
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.

Topic: IP Note\

Topic: Call Notes\

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Just started thank you.\

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions\

Topic: Announcements & Reminders\

Marty Reed: Yeah can you hear me.\
<colin,_learning_economy> Yeah it is!\
Marty Reed: Good so just wanted to note the IEEE ilr Ellie are recommended practices group is restarting this Thursday so getting a lot of community updates so just let everybody know that that is happening and if you need tation Colin.\
<colin,_learning_economy> Send me a message!\
Marty Reed: I'm sure can help you with that.\
<colin,_learning_economy> I'll drop a link\
<kerri_lemoie> q_\
<kerri_lemoie> More info on Plugfest:\
Kerri Lemoie: I just wanted to let folks know that registration is still open for plugfest to I'm going to put a link to the chat to the registration form our registration is open until September 9th at 12 p.m. noon Eastern and this link I'm going to put in the chat to is I like to the information page I'm about plugfest you can feel free to reach out to any of the co-chairs if you have questions about registration.\
Kerri Lemoie: Ation or if you want to participate in you're not sure.\
<colin,_learning_economy> IEEE-ILR/LER Working Group:\
Kerri Lemoie: Takes to participate because VC-EDU\ is doing this in partnership with jobs for the future which is jff and so we'll be able to help you get started thank you.\
Kerri Lemoie: Simone/\ I think you are breaking up.\
Leon: Yeah same here.\
Kerri Lemoie: The only because I'm not sure if some money can hear us I'm happy to hand things over to you Leon if you want to take over from here and tell us more about your coin passport and I walk us through that.\

Topic: Gitcoin Passport with Leon Erichsen (Product Manager, Gitcoin Passport)\

Leon: Yeah I'd love to thanks so much for the invitation carry and Simona and everyone else I suppose glad to be here so yeah my name is Leon I'm working with a project called good corn and one of the products that get Corners working on is to get calm passport.\
Leon: maybe just.\
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> Thx for backing me up ... :-)\
<andy_griebel> I hear nothing\
<simone_ravaioli_(vc_edu)> I do hear Leon\
<kerri_lemoie> I can hear Leon\
<andy_griebel> logging out and coming back in. audio settings check ok as is.\
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Leon: We could make identity less binary or like one-dimensional centralized thing but rather make it you know a function of of like a network of Records or function of like multiple records so say if you are I don't know like if you have a credential that you have a degree in in Psychiatry and you are based in this or that country and you know you've participated and this or that Community only then.\
Leon: Do you get voting rights in our.\
Leon: Could I take funding program around psychiatric research or whatsoever so.\
Leon: The architecture with which you build passport and I'll talk about it is it's basically agnostic to like how you want to score identities but the the you know use case that we are actively exploring our like personal proofs like just verifying the unique Humanity of participants and then plurality through like recognizing the the social cultural backgrounds of participants and then increasing like rewards for cooperation across these differences.\
Leon: and here's kind of like a.\
Leon: The view of the hmm.\
Leon: Yeah architecture of the passport so basically the passport itself is like it data structure on the ceramic Network which is basically like a publicly readable data storage and then in our case people manage their part of that big database through the did pkh method so basically like you use your etherium wallet and in our case.\
Leon: case like we take these here.\
Leon: Cancer people use a theorem accounts to to manage their passports on the ceramic Network and at the same time we map the theorem accounts to the IDS through the did pkh method and basically you know we take personal data whether that's like coming from public blockchains or coming from web to platforms organization so you know blockchains cases it might be you know data around you know what decentralized autonomous organizations you have.\
Leon: participated in or.\
Leon: What's all bonds tokens you hold in web Platforms in might be you know you're followings on Twitter or like the amount of followers that you have and you know organizations like universities obviously could you know issue verify credentials to their students so basically we basically take data and wrap it and verify be credentialed and map them to the passport or to the passport of a passport holder right.\
Leon: and then as a passport holder.\
Leon: Go to digital applications like it can grants to get voting weights or you know you could I don't know go to a university to get access to the digital library I suppose you know or whatever you know you might need a verify about people so.\
Leon: Cool thing is the whole passport project is open source and with that like free of charge we have an interface that we run so basically an interface for like this.\
Leon: Passport management from like a passport holder perspective where they can claim a set of five credentials that we have curated that will then score on good corn Grant side but you know similarily like you could build an independent front end and you know issue of 05 credentialed say in the educational realm and then scored in whatever way you want to scored using the same infrastructure.\
Leon: we could also and this is.\
Leon: Lovely exploring now like just arrived another piece of background is like we launched the passport this summer so it's like pretty much an alpha Mode still but we are also working on making our front end for these dids very much compatible with very various use cases so that as a passport holder or person that's in the past what you can like manage a world where you have you know thousands of fiber credentials flowing floating around that were like different credentials would.\
Leon: be relevant to different applications so.\
Leon: In something like hitting a photo okay what credentials do I need for the Harvard University library and then you see the like set of credentials that you need to claim or that you already have and and this way like by use case you can kind of filter the credentials that you need or that you already have but here we also have it like in progress software development kit I'll send the link to this presentation actually.\
Leon: I said right now so I don't forget yes the Bots will appeared but yeah you can check out the software development kit you can also check out this beginner's guide for developers so someone in our community made basically as you know other projects will come in you know more decentralized applications or just.\
Leon: Apologies for the crypto slang here you know we'll probably add more users who you know get utility through passports and then.\
Leon: As more users of their like we'll probably they'll also add more stamps like more data to their passports and that will give even more utility to other applications right because you kind of develop this network effect around around the passport and this way you know basically more apps means more user means one stands guess you get the idea so currently in the last grandson like we run these Grant programs on a quarterly basis because.\
Leon: you know we have like capital.\
Leon: They like three million dollars and then add one point in time you basically need to take a snapshot of the votes all the donations that came in and distribute these matching funds so we do this on a quarterly basis and then run like two-week-long grants programs the first one where we launched a passport was in July or June where we had about I think it was in June like 12,000 signups to the passport as part of that Alpha implementation and then.\
Leon: then in the next grants round will.\
Leon: With the Twisted we added a bunch of stamps or like stamps here by the way I mean verify with credentials it's our.\
Leon: Ecology for like user Minds to communicate the per fiber credentials and and this way I hopefully making the scoring of the passwords more effective in good congrats but also just giving it more utility and at the same time like we've started like partner application program I'll share some links around that later so if you'd be interested in you know experimenting with passport and your community or application.\
Leon: you can basically chat.\
Leon: You know you can do it anytime because it's all open source and we have an SDK but if you wanted to do it through our front end on collaboration with us we would benefit because we you know learn from like Partners how we can improve the SDK and how they are thinking about their application and on the other hand.\
Leon: As an application developer you would get more Hands-On support from us then just by consuming the SDK so in September will run grandson 15 and then hopefully by the end of September we ship like 226 partner applications from the various conversation so we are in right now and and then yeah moving forward I guess we'll just explore new use cases within geeking grants you know maybe going Beyond Simple quadratic funding we can do more pluralistic quadratic funding.\
Leon: I like we use to credentials to.\
Leon: It was between the contributors and then re increase a matching funding for projects that receive like support from a diverse Community as opposed to just like a very homogeneous Community you know like in very simple terms imagine that currently you know we really ignore these relationships right so I have a grant like a project gets many donations from say only people from the theorem ecosystem.\
Leon: you know that.\
Leon: Kinda and you could chamber of just a theorem ecosystem supporters right but imagine that that we had credentials that kinda would allow us to map these contributors onto a social graph so basically we could see that and maybe mute you know support from homogeneous groups like that obviously it's not that's like simple that it's you know if you remember or Bitcoin or whatever crypto Rick system is the only groups who would consider but you know ideally we could.\
Leon: actually then increase matching for projects that have support.\
Leon: Like explicitly the Bitcoin Community is a theorem community members also the verifiable credential Community if we could add another like dimension of diversity to it and maybe check like at which universities these students have studied because obviously like as a I don't know Brown University graduate much more likely.\
Leon: I guess.\
Leon: To project from a brown student right or like someone in that works in that Brown University spirit so I basically looking at the social context of these credentials we can use that to like promote diversity I think that's one of the like use case we could explore also like just membership right like to participate in this voting program or whatever you need to be a member of this or that community and the credentials could be.\
Leon: approved for that you can check out the.\
Leon: Face of passport here just as an out we are like the grandson 15 starts on September 7th and we like currently we have like eight data points in there or like 10 that you can verify so and they're not very meaningful to be honest right it's like just do you have a Facebook account yes an hour Syria we send you through the Facebook or Google account yes or no Twitter account yes or no get up account we don't install the account handles like we create basically in encrypted hashes of.\
Leon: of the account handled so if someone shows up with two.\
Leon: That contain you know to like it whatever I'm going to respectively say that has the same hash we would know okay it was generated from the account handle but wouldn't know what that account handle is but basically we just have these eight data points and by basically the end of this week it will you'll be able to verify up to 61 data points I think some of which will be sub points of existing identity provider.\
Leon: us so in Twitter's case for instance will not only.\
Leon: They have an account or not but I also like how many tweets you've made in the past and like how many followers you have not exact numbers to kind of protect Pi but rather like okay you have more than 10.\
Leon: Tweets all I'm more than 100 followers more than 5,000 followers and so forth likes using like some thresholds and yeah if you want to bring passport to your community obviously at the start of the presentation is my email address happy to chat with you and but you can also use this form here like this form basically populates our backlog of Integrations for new stamps.\
Leon: as I said you can you know.\
Leon: Verify credentials with the data structures on ceramic and build your own front end but like we use this backlog to populate the verify credentials said we could use and get congrats but will also show the the list here basically to to these partners that we're working with now to to verify identity and their applications if you two want to like utilize passport to I know verify identity in your dish.\
Leon: little library or like in a.\
Leon: Whatever or I guess there are many other use case we haven't explored yet you can use this form here to to share contacts around your idea and needs and I'd be happy to follow up thanks for the patience and attention and yeah I'd love to discuss.\
Leon: with you.\
Leon: Yep we cut you off as you mentioned the German.\
Leon: I love you.\
Leon: Thanks so much ammonia yeah I think we could benefit from like all like all kinds of applications could benefit from educational credentials like to get access to you know platforms or or just analyzing you know the social context of the people on the platform I think be super valuable.\
Kerri Lemoie: Hey I think this is really interesting man this is really cool I want to try this out one thing I was wondering about this group we talk a lot about payloads right the the credential subject content and how a verifiable credentials are described and all the standards that exist in education that we are trying to help you get mapped and understood the verifiable credentials so the data so the payload it can be understood is that something at all you guys are interested in incorporating.\
Kerri Lemoie: Reading this part of this.\
Kerri Lemoie: And I can't.\
Kerri Lemoie: More if you're not familiar.\
Leon: Yeah I think I'm not a kind of person sure like what your question is going at but I could I could share how the what the data and the credentials is that we issue.\
Leon: Father like say Twitter stamps also I know.\
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah it's an ASI and to be more specific in this group we talk about how is an achievement described what is the name of the achievement the description any sort of skills associated with that achievement so we have a lot of like standards and taxonomy is related to that.\
Leon: Cool yeah why don't we.\
Leon: This passport here.\
Leon: Okay so this is.\
Leon: Json of that credential I think.\
Leon: Admit I don't get everything that's in here but.\
Leon: Thing one of one of the keys is that we store this hash ear that allows us to identify whether you know if I would again verify Google stamp with the same Google account that would be the same for example.\
Leon: Yeah I think they only.\
Leon: Provider and for his religious that it's Google like in the context field I guess that might be the claim.\
Leon: Um of it Renshaw so when when someone comes to the application on our end we could you know identify it as a Google stamp.\
Leon: As a Google credential does that make sense.\
Kerri Lemoie: It does make sense thank you for sharing that so this is what it looks like yeah I'd be happy to email you separately and send you some of the examples they made interest your team to see what those look like too.\
Leon: No I'll be awesome.\
Leon: I see how yeah that would be that's definitely something on our mind as well also currently for example with Twitter you know we.\
Leon: We visited just had to have an account or not but in the next iteration you will basically open to click this and then you open the sidebar and then the other data points that you can opt into is like the amount of followers and like treats that you made but with background like we do this because you know if you have more than 5,000 followers it's like at least bit better evidence that you are a human right and then just having a Twitter account.\
Leon: but currently we basically.\
Leon: Each of these.\
Leon: It up ons like five or six safe or Twitter we would issue six distinct credentialed to that passport obviously we could also like wrap it all in one and and we are we are basically also trying to figure out like how we split up data into different credentials or like how we you know.\
Leon: Whether we should issue the credentials like as distinctly as possible if you know what I mean.\
Leon: Yeah it'll be yeah I'd love to learn from like how you've thought about this.\
Kaliya Young: Hi this is more a response to what was just shared and I would just wanted to ask and like why I use the term passport and that the use of the term passport concerns me because.\
Kaliya Young: We have conspiracy theorists tracking our work as a community and painting scary stories and I think for.\
Kaliya Young: We have to be really careful about the words we choose to describe the things we're doing to help so that the public perception is more aligned with our reality so anyway that's just a comment I felt I should voice.\
Leon: Yeah that's helpful thank you yeah I think the the passport branding is not like really set in stone yet it was like so so we could very likely I'm actively explore this with our marketing team that that I kind of leaning leading like all the branding efforts around passport.\
Leon: All like around blank.\
Ted Thibodeau: +1 To drop "passport"; also because governments are interested in VCs in various ways, and confusion will be likely\
<nate_otto_(he/him)> (For notes, I think the conspiracy theorists are attached to the "vaccine passport" and antivaxx/anti-covid restrictions communities worried about globalists trying to track all the essential data about people and control their lives. I prefer not to live in fear of conspiracy theorists, but it is good to be aware of what detractors are out there, even if they're sometimes woefully mistaken.)\
Leon: Yeah Kelly I just out of curiosity would you be able to like to share a bit more about this conspiracy theorists and I like that the kind of Miss misconception that like brand like this might likely cause.\
Kaliya Young: Sir yeah well I mean there's a woman named Allison McDowell who is she describes herself as a parent in a parent and she has taken upon herself to.\
Kaliya Young: You know I think there are real legitimate concerns that many of us in the working on verifiable credentials share about potentially very creepy combinations of technology in the future that impact human Freedom so I think we have more in common with the concern side of why this conspiracy theories are being woven and that they're also putting she's stringing dots together that.\
Kaliya Young: Have to be strong together including sort of her last video sort of said see look the soulbound tokens for Education they're trying to make every child have to have these tracking of all their things and then they're going to pull them into the metaverse and Destroy any job prospects for the future because the AI is are going to get trained up their day like it's kind of like like no and then oh yeah and.\
Kaliya Young: She also we were working on legislation.\
Leon: Yeah I'd appreciate it.\
Kaliya Young: California so it was like look the state of California is going to track all your children anyway so I'll put a link to a video so if you all want to watch but it's she has over 16 thousand followers and we're not paying it like yeah that's not a lot but it's not nothing and.\
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_( This floor before you click that link that Clay is about to post be sure to do so in an anima stab you don't want to be sucked into this you don't want it in your viewing history you don't want it anywhere because it will just suck you down a rabbit hole of flawed logic at best and that's what promises beyond that.\
<kerri_lemoie> She's attacked me on Twitter for encouraging child labor practices\
Kaliya Young: After I have to go find it so take me a little bit but I'll post it before the end of the call.\
Leon: Thank you understand down.\
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_( If I made the reason I threw myself on the Queue was actually to Echo the concern over the titling as pres passport that branding it's going to be confusing in a lot of ways and lead you into collisions that I don't think will be beneficial having a non-collision brand is going to be much better for having it have its own identity and not be confused with things and not be dressed down.\
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_( Those governments will not be happy for the branding is passport for instance that's it.\
<xander_-_asu/pocket> stamps as verifiable credentials is another duplicte term\
Leon: And also thank Scalia for watching the.\
<brent> For "Passport" branding, I think there's a balance between using language that is technically accurate and using language that is approachable for people who are new to identity.\
<leon> +1\
<timothy_summers> I'd like to learn more about your approach to using the Ceramic network.\
Leon: Do you think it's someone on the queue.\
Leon: Pretty cool cuz it because I would also like to ask everyone here something so because the reason is that like you know while we're building passport we are basically also building like software development kit for like quadratic funding you know that would allow communities to you know run these quadratic funding programs with low development effort and as we're kind of talking to potential.\
Leon: Operators of these applications you know this third party could audit finding apps like many many of these are like communities would often like to gate the right to to vote on the distribution of the matching funds through actually in the like academic credentials so you know I guess like it it makes sense for specifically stuff in the medical sector I you know if you want to distribute funding falling.\
<kaliya> This starts out with SSI -\
Leon: Seems intuitive to to you know have like medical expertise involved like at least increasing the voting weight of like credentialed Physicians or similar so so my question is kind of how would you.\
Leon: Approach Integrations with like this educational certificate generally like is because I'm like not super familiar like at what state you know the educational VC sector is at right now so would you rather approach like University by University or are they are already like kind of meta networks it kind of work with like multiple universities that you could reach out to or.\
Leon: yeah curious if anybody.\
Leon: The how to approach that say if we want to credentials for.\
Leon: you know.\
<colin,_learning_economy> Sounds like the question is leaning toward how the Gitcoin Passport might handle something like an LER?\
Leon: A physician for example like having like a medicine degree from a school in the US.\
<kerri_lemoie> Leon - I'd be happy to reach out & tell you more about what the Digital Credentials Consortium is up to at MIT -- we have 12 universities participating currently.\
John Kuo: I just wanted to address the issue of around networks and so there are a number of initiatives in place ASU and workmen want to build my network of what they call trusted Learners let's kind of nascent right now and as far as individual issuers you know ASU has an initiative I know Emmett MIT want has one I'm pretty you know right.\
John Kuo: Reed's got some stuff going on.\
John Kuo: Lot of separate pilots and successful issuers out there right now for educational credentials with different types but there's no there's no existing network but there are issues under way so it would be the one at ASU is called the T Ln or trusted learner Network.\
John Kuo: Sure I'll type it.\
Leon: Let's see could you spell out that link or the organization in the chat please we also thanks.\
<kerri_lemoie> We've been thinking about creating a directory listing of initiatives here at VC-EDU -- Folks like that idea?\
John Kuo: Again very very early.\
John Kuo: ASU: Trusted Learner Network\
Leon: I guess it's kind of like literally like a case-by-case basis right like what type of credential you need specifically and then.\
Leon: It's out there.\
John Kuo: There's a big development at ASU I'm involved in that's going to be issuing lots of my credentials is VCS for educational records but that's still like in very early pilot phase internally.\
Leon: And also thanks Carrie I saw your comment and.\
Leon: Yeah I'd love to talk about that Consortium.\
Leon: Now or some other time.\
Kerri Lemoie: Sure I can see a little bit about the DCCC which the digital credential Consortium and also to let you know that we've seen a pretty big increase over the past year in the projects that and the movement of the projects and a lot of this has to do with people starting to understand what verifiable credentials are and education that that's part of the work of this group is to help people understand and we are thinking about the co-chairs we were talking about how do I print directory.\
Kerri Lemoie: So folks can find each other working on use.\
Kerri Lemoie: India for the past year and we're going to be putting Adam a basic recommendation for credentials in education that you could take a look at this is what I can share with your team at some point that will It'll point to their there are some standards and open badges the comprehensive learning record that already are aligned with verifiable credentials and then there are a lot of other data standards with all of these descriptions that we can demonstrate how they make decisions how to include those NPCs.\
Kerri Lemoie: And at the different credential Consortium what.\
Kerri Lemoie: Building out software to help with signing and verifying and issuing of the credentials but also an open Wallet like a reference software that says here's what a verifiable credential qualit looks like here's how it can work with some of the the protocol standards like DC API and just sort of like help demonstrate how all of this can work with an ecosystem and then for those who are interested to try and help them get them on board.\
Kerri Lemoie: We're pretty heavily involved in this group to help it grow.\
<brent> Kerri is this software something that is open-source that other Universities could fork?\
Kerri Lemoie: Hope it be more understandable and easier to use over time kind of like we are thinking of doing to I think.\
Leon: Thanks carry on.\
<brent> I like hearing about groups like DCC working on standards
Leon: Now there's all sounds great I guess it's like most likely all like definitely reach out when some of these potential partners that want to utilize passport or our grants protocol wanna you know gate access to voting weights through some degrees.\
Leon: Ropy like like a very.\
Leon: Obvious playing field to collaborate you know.\
Leon: And build Bridges between the like issues of educational credentials and and these passport applications.\
Leon: Yeah I just figured and like unfortunately I'll be on vacation at the time of the plug first but maybe we can is it like possible to attend say like for good quality member or is it nice no.\
<tayken_(lef)> We have three separate projects/wallets (using Ceramic). Oss sdk coming soon.\
Leon: Yes yeah I'll pitch it internally as well.\
<colin,_learning_economy> Gitcoin at plugfest
Kerri Lemoie: That I was just also going to add to that you may not know about this because I know you're new to our calls that we have a mailing list for this group that is focused on education specifically I'm going to put the link to this in the chat and it's just a blister and so we're doing those who are participating in the bloodfest to send messages on this alien list too so that we learn from each other.\
Leon: But thanks girl.\
<brent> I'll check my cal and see if I can make it
<kaliya> Her explaining what Silicon Valley has planned for EDU -\
<leon> Thank you!\
<brent> I love demos!\
<kerri_lemoie> Thank you, Leon!\
Leon: I'll try to make it happen through somebody else but yeah thanks so much for having me here today I'd love to open sometime in the future I saw that I'm on the calendar and right now Simona thanks for that.\
<colin,_learning_economy> Thanks, Leon! Keep leading the sybil resistance charge!\
<kerri_lemoie> Great call!\
Leon: Thank you yeah definitely thanks morning thanks everybody for having me being patient.\
<tayken_(lef)> Thanks Leon
<xander_-_asu/pocket> fascinating technology, thanks for sharing!\
Kaliya Young: Just a follow-up as we close I did put two links into the chat and there's another one that I can't find but maybe I'll share on the mailing list of books can see it.\
Leon: Nice yeah thanks for that clear.\
<tallted> important link that will help you keep YouTube from sending you down the rabbit hole because you watched the videos linked by Kaliya --\
<tallted> (hoping that makes it into the minutes...)\