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Verifiable Traceability Task Force

Transcript for 2022-08-30

Agenda
https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=Aug&period_year=2022&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Organizer
Orie Steele, Mike Prorock, Mahmoud Alkhraishi
Scribe
Our Robot Overlords and Our Robot Overlords
Present
Ben - Transmute, nis, Mahmoud Alkhraishi, TallTed // Ted Thibodeau (he/him) (OpenLinkSw.com), Orie Steele, Ted Thibodeau
Audio Log
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah I typed as merge first just because listed a lot of work on getting the CI to pass.
Ben_-_Transmute: Also just just a quick note it looks like I'm the only one that transcriber is working for so I think we might want to have a subscriber something on this call.
Ben_-_Transmute: I guess just type in the chat and just kind of give a quick you know play by plate.
Ben_-_Transmute: I can sure I can try so I try to stop subtitles and that starts hotels or should I try to stop recording and start recording I think.
Ben_-_Transmute: All right let's stop recording.
Ben_-_Transmute: And then started running.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Ben_-_Transmute: Is that going okay I see some subtitles for me right now.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay that looks like yours is working.
Orie Steele: Test one two three test one two three.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Mine is working.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Or is it is working.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Not mine either special.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Looks like nessa's.
Ben_-_Transmute: Wait L is working.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: No Ted is working it's just Nestle at least we're back to the standard - it's better than before.
Ben_-_Transmute: The the racist subscribe button it is transcribed by.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: All right I'm going to go ahead and start moving forward so you can get through anything get through next up is pure number 539 this one is opened by you.
Ben_-_Transmute: I can we do fight can we do 549 first before we do that.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah that's the one that the type one sure.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah just do that and then come back to 539 after that.
Ben_-_Transmute: Hopefully it doesn't it shouldn't look like it has a conflict I use I forthright off mrs. Branch to do this and so the only changes should be the difference from their head and what this does is this goes through each one of the credentials and provides a standard way of defining the types for each one of our credentials to make it come out right in Json schema.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay this has multiple approvals no change requests it's been open for a while think we're going to go ahead and merge it unless anybody has any objections.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Going back to 53 90 85 39 I think you measure it by accident or I'm version by accident that's funny.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay well I mean I can.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Well I'm I'm going to go ahead and Link anyway I highly doubt this is going to be anything crazy it has multiple roles as well but please walk us through it.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah it has a free will so that's okay um what this does is right now when we call npm I what this will do is it'll generate the context object in our repository for the API definitions and in order to do that it's calling a function from verifiable data which means that we would have to go to verified data update that function and then re pull it and then update the Shameless and.
Ben_-_Transmute: It's be able to change the contact so what does what does.
Ben_-_Transmute: That function that was on verifiable data puts it into our repository Drive say so any changes we make that we can update the context to do that and that does less basically a precursor for addressing issue 527 where if we want to make any changes to how our context is generated we can do it by changing script in our Repository.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That's he was very helpful again this was original version has multiple approvals but if anyone wants me to revert the merge please speak up.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Cool nothing wrong happened next up is 550 and I think this is Eunice.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Well it's all on some including stuff like Master bill of lading right so it's not just pure screw but yeah yeah.
Ben_-_Transmute: Any can have multiple sites on the credentials it's not mutually exclusive.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah and I don't see any reason why this would be a problem right like this the same tagging in general I think should be as open as we want it to be right yeah absolutely cool looks like it has multiple approvals and if anyone has any there are no objections I'm going to go ahead and merge it.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Next up is 55 1 which is the revert from experimental PR.
Ben_-_Transmute: I think Miss just dropped off but I can I can describe the change what we did was we tried to get we try to declare verify credentials in a way that we get everything into one file valve separating out the credential subjected to its own rdf type and after trying that looking into how you know the logistics of how that actually works it makes more sense to have each rdf class be its own file.
Ben_-_Transmute: Is reverting back to the.
Ben_-_Transmute: Visual design change.
Ben_-_Transmute: And I went ahead and describe the revert design that you important but it has a conflict resolved that I guess we should say it's okay to merge after fixing out of meeting is that okay.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I believe so there are multiple approvals and I think we knew there was going to be some conflicts today right so I'm going to go ahead and write it please feel free to merge one concept surgery.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Last year we have is a draft PR I don't normally we don't talk about merging them but I think maybe this is a good PR to introduce now nest because you're looking for feedback right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So the one question I have is when I'm reading this I see for example business location my understanding is this is already defined by UPS has already so what you're trying to do is just copy all their definitions and put them in our repo was that.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay and what you modified really was you added business location business Step 2 and then the idea is that the rest of the terms would be coming from a PCI that's right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Then why are we not including any of the other one's right there's there's a huge right.
<tallted> (sorry, local interrupt kept me from listening for a bit... hope I missed no major questions)
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay okay sorry I guess I read that I just internalize um there are a number of extensions to this that we have in the base events in the repo itself right things that we felt were important to add to the apcs event right so reference for example to which product this event occurs on or something of that nature right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think when does PR is finalized I would like it to keep that reference but yeah so would be an extension to the EPC is what not directly wantonly PCS.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That's what I would like is.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I believe that's probably the best way to go forward but I'm open to you know I don't think it makes sense for us to have for example a commission event and an EPC is commission event I feel like.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: We're just you know redefining things that should already be the same thing right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm happy to take the existing commission event and then we just add any of the apcs fields that should be in it that aren't in it right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'll put anything else on Trace vocab before we switch to peers on trace and drop.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I believe on Jason truck we have a single PR and I think there were a number of comments on it and I don't think it's ready and I don't believe Chris is with us today.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Actually I'm looking at it now I think there's just a request for reviews from everybody so I'm gonna go ahead and say we are not able to merge this and we'll come back to it next week unless anybody disagrees with that statement.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Today is Trace vocab are there any burning issues that people would like to cover or do we want to start with the least recently updated.
Ben_-_Transmute: Probably at least recently updated is fine.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay so this is the order for the least recently updated for Trace Volcom starting at number 239 as an example of the USMC a product specifier so is open by or a nest has a comment in it there was something that was merged and then the length of the schema 404 is it needs to be fixed this.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Are you back with us do you know if this is.
Ben_-_Transmute: Of the URL resolves this now which I posted in the.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yep it looks like it works to me I'm going to go ahead and close this issue as complete.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Excellent already making progress next up is your number 273.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: It was opened by Vladimir does anyone have any we are waiting on a suggested change from him.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: And there wasn't anything that I want to know if this relates to any other issue or.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm going to.
Ben_-_Transmute: Physical profit ressources addressed in place.
Ben_-_Transmute: I just reached in country code.
Ben_-_Transmute: Hierarchy using country I think I think these were added and place.
Orie Steele: No so please places from schema.org Place supports location that's geo coordinates or address as a postal address postal addresses also defined by schema.org and postal address is what we're currently using for addresses home pretty much everywhere.
Orie Steele: This is essentially saying postal address on schema.org isn't that great and maybe there's a better way of representing postal addresses but there's insufficient activity on the issue to conclude that my opinion.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Postal addresses are fraught with Peril and their consistent in some nations in some regions but they are not globally consistent at all.
Orie Steele: Yeah so schema.org he uses postal address and therefore schema.org can't necessarily represent postal addresses across all the agents efficiently The Proposal would be to use an address system that was better than schema.org / postal address and we would need concrete examples on the issue to influenza.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): The only way we're going to win on doing this is using an attribute whatever we call it that basically just takes a string.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Because that's the only thing that is consistent.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): It's third hot on the left in some places on a lot of reservations it's just a p.o. box but it's the 17th trailer down that trail we're not going to find a standard thing that works because there isn't one.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think that's fair but I believe the way this issue was phased is we should try switching out of schema org and try one of the other things that were in the comparison right and we'll always saying is is there an actual action item that we can take here and see if that makes sense.
Orie Steele: Yeah I think Ted's proposal is an alternative to this is stop using postal address and start using a flat string field that contain any possible formulation of a postal address which is a totally valid alternative to what we're currently doing.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay Ted I'm going to note your comments.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): That may be better because it does allow you to do things like print an envelope.
Orie Steele: This is this is one of those base types that affects every certificate so when we do make the change it will be a big change if we make the change.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So I think what this needs to do is we need to actually have more comments on the topic and from there we can actually make a ready for PR attack unless people believe we have reached a consensus of we can just use address field 1 2 3 4 5 and run with that I not hearing like everybody's on board with that but.
Ben_-_Transmute: But I guess just to kind of quickly summarize without me and this I think the implementation of that would be we would try to keep our existing address names to be as simple as possible and then change the terms to be 1 2 3 4 5 2.
Ben_-_Transmute: To make this address is that am I understanding that correctly.
Ben_-_Transmute: Or am I even vocalizing that correctly.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think you are but I'm going to try and revisit again it's basically we would try to switch from our existing address to a one two three four five loose address with the caveat that this will have a bunch of changes unless I completely misunderstood we were trying to say about.
Ben_-_Transmute: I'm saying just confirming that we're really changing the terms and not the key values is that the right understanding.
Orie Steele: No I don't think so I heard the concrete proposal to change the key values and the are is associated with them but I have it again like json-ld example on the issue would make it a lot clearer what people are opposed.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay yeah that's that's what I wanted to double check before we go.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That sounds good okay let's try and get an example on the issue and we can Circle back to this at a later time.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Issue number 286 which is about json-ld context and frame this was also opened by Vlad I'm sure json-ld context of measuring from recent schemas but I haven't seen it where is it and or a ping - and been to respond this was in the 24th of May.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah I think.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah he's pixie just saying what is what is the URL for the Jason don't eat context when we post and then in the second comment he has it says thanks this allows us to diagnose pain issues quickly does that mean this could be closed.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah looks like cousin asked and answered gonna post right.
Orie Steele: You should say something like that and close it.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm going to.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Next up is number 406 apply 50 to trade Finance related VCS is opened by or e or you can give us a quick what is fiber.
Orie Steele: 500 Is a financial business ontology it is defines a a bunch of different terms related to finance things like loans and that kind of thing the main purpose of including a here was in the context of when we have to describe something in json-ld or in already have.
Orie Steele: The best ontology for representing those financial terms such that they can be understood by all the largest group of people and 50 as far as I'm aware is the best ontology for this kind of thing so that's why I opened the issue and then I think Francis him is the person who commented on it and he included some examples about you know things that you might see and verifiable credentials.
Orie Steele: Regarding Finance.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Fair enough looks like next steps are a concrete proposal of what credential types we want to add 250 if there are any that people feel have not been represented is that what you had in mind Dory.
Orie Steele: Yeah we should review already have classes that are related to finance and that we have today and then we should look at 50 and see if there's a better alternative.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm gonna keep it open oh I guess you what the commentators broke I'll just write now we guess we're going to keep this open and look to Circle back unless somebody is willing to be assigned to this issue.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: All right I'm going to head and put a comment looking to take.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay does anyone else have anything they'd like to add about 406.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay moving on to the next issue which is issue number 230 this is an issue you opened talking about how specific should we be with identifiers you want to walk us through it.
<tallted> maybe tag 406 "help wanted"?
<orie> thanks! ^ i added it
Ben_-_Transmute: Just a general agreement that we want to be more specific than schema.org when possible and disability context.
Orie Steele: Yes that's true all of our credential modeling what's the specific changes that this particular issue.
Orie Steele: I think yeah I think we should close it.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Does anyone disagree with closing with the show.
Ben_-_Transmute: II thought that I mean that kind of goes with the previous issue that we just talked about 50 to trade Finance related PCS is that like the whole premise of Trace vocab is to try to find the right vocabulary to find each term so having specific terms for specific identifiers tends to go with that trend.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay I'm going to go ahead and close it next one is for 23 Implement a link Builder plugin for address to Google Maps easily allow for getting GPS coordinates from examples.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Ted noted that this would require you to have postal ZIP codes that are actually accurate and they map to real to the rest of the address including real City Town names and or it was saying up that's why we want to set it to test all the victims were using looks like there is General support for the idea of building this I'm going to go ahead and tag it as help wanted unless anybody would like to be assigned to it right now.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Or I guess we can talk about ready.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay I'm going to go ahead please.
Ben_-_Transmute: I'm going to ask a stupid question because I know how very poorly defined a lot of our dresses are how important is this in terms of data definition like I think a lot of the addresses in our you know in our scheme has don't really reference real place it's like oh this is an organ or this is generic motors with y'all a company they have bits of doesn't exist so I'm kind of wondering of you know if.
Ben_-_Transmute: Using kind of generic you know.
Ben_-_Transmute: Do any of the addresses in our repository really contained me beyond what they defined for the schema or context.
Orie Steele: Yeah that's a good question I think when I created this issue ages ago my thought was what if I could just click on the address and see it on a Google map and how hard is it to convert any written form of the address to a Google Maps search where you get dropped on them at and that's where the issue kind of came from was like we could describe that in some way that we useful but.
Orie Steele: This issue can just be closed as you know implementation-specific Grinders can handle it over they want.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I know on our end we so one part of this is that the vocabulary does not have anything any fields that are basically required so it is perfectly valid to have an address with a GPS coordinates that are missing right and so it's I guess up to each vendor how they handle that case it's also update wonder how they handle GPS coordinates that are absolutely wrong or.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: They do not map to they're real.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Place do we really want our example credentials to link to real spots I guess is the question they're asking why right is this something that we care about.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Or is it just because it does anybody else have any other input.
Ben_-_Transmute: I also kind of search closing it's not specifically relevant to the vocabulary and schema definitions and I think that the the address and itself only has meeting when we have you know real world data from you know actual clients or customers or users of our platforms and I think that that would be a vendor specific implementation for how that data is handled.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I guess we have.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): To some to some degree I agree with that but on the other hand we've got a whole bunch of fake data in here and either it's useful for demonstrating things or it's not if it's not useful then get it out and if it is useful then make it actually usable I mean it doesn't have to be really complex to do a fake address.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Now you can put your finger on the globe and say okay it's here and use whatever attributes of it you want whether that's lat long or that's a street address or it's something else.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Right now we've got a bunch of fake data that is really really thick because it's really bad and it's not at all even close to usable for testing whether these things work though they that we're saying they do.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think Teddy goes to what is the purpose of the fake data that we have in in my mind the point of the fake data is to make sure that you have an example of what the structure would be and an example of the format of what it is they are using and not that it actually corresponds to real-world data right I think it would be nicer if they were reasonable fake addresses but do you see anybody opening the vocabulary pulling.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Up a credential that includes a place.
<nis> We have proper, realistic fake data too
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Acting that place to be close to real because my experience with this has been oh no all of these are just you know I'm using this so I know what I'm going to build in it I know what the thing looks like this is an example that I'm you know you.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Okay that that being the case then I suggest that the data that we have in there be more more fake more obviously fake.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Yeah like more lorem ipsum me and just yeah.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): You know example core one example Street example City you know that just really blatant that this is not expected to do anything like work because right now what's in there is stuff that looks like it could be aught of work.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): And I thought it was there for testing the vocab in some ways.
Orie Steele: So there's there are images of documents where we attempted to convert real world example document to new Json data model and in those cases the intention is that the data is as reflective as the image of the document and there are other cases where we're trying to do exactly what you said like it's just an example Street you know I think we have both of them and I.
Orie Steele: I agree with the comment you made earlier.
Orie Steele: If the example data is supposed to be helpful it should be nice looking yes so I'm not sure that this issue helps address any of that though because this is about building a link for specific type of address.
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Right I get it I pasted a link a little higher in the chat that basically the Google Map for insert address here.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay looks like they're generalized support for closing this issue and if there is an issue regarding how we clean up our data I think that's its own separate thing that somebody should open and that somebody could probably be me because I'm you know I'm not exactly happy with the way.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm plus 1 instead here I think it should be more fake or you know more realistic but I don't think this exact issue is that right.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah the this issue is about specifically clicking click the links and be able to go to Google but what this they say identified as that we either need Super pick addresses or we more realistic looking addresses but that means this issue can be closed and then optionally the issue about addresses looking nicer super fake is a separate issue.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm going to go ahead and close this unless there are any objections.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Next up is number 272.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: This was opened by Vladimir again legal and setting for intelligence and published six months ago we should use the legal entity identifier ontology please use it in linked data when I'm rapping if possible use by prefixes we have not defined anything regarding L EI is a comment from orry I believe that has since changed unless I'm wrong - I thought you added some other guy stuff unless I'm mister.
Ben_-_Transmute: Call Ashley I can surf it stood with the whole I try to take this up before with a little bit of interaction of flood we have Elliot address Ellie I30 Ellie I entity Elia evidence document Ellie I registration and Ali I legal identifier credential and Vlad said that pay service these classes and which attributes you're using and also provide.
Ben_-_Transmute: Decisions about providing.
Ben_-_Transmute: Feedback but after my last post there has been no full of from flight on this.
Ben_-_Transmute: Oh that's probably one of those ones separate issue that's being targeted for removal that we should probably take out if it's called a credential but it doesn't have the proof.
Ben_-_Transmute: But as far as the other ones yeah I think yeah they've kind of want some specific examples for what the suggestion suggested changes for each one specific attributes or if the yet or if attributes needed to be had and what was the term speak on the issue for this be ready for report Plus.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay I believe the action item here is I have ping blood to try and respond to you to keep the conversation going unless you believe this should be closed.
Ben_-_Transmute: I think it it's a plaid to follow up on the issue or if this if you feel strongly about you know jumping into this and fixing our Ellie I terms this is definitely not my area of expertise so I don't you know I think this would know how to own this better than I do.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay I'm going to type this as help wanted and I have pink blood if anyone has anything else they want to add to this issue please feel free.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Moving on to add vocabulary with reservations to CD so it's assigned to me and I don't think I ever got around to it so this is on me.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think this is they're not triggered when we actually like they're not rebuilt right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So this is possibly a stale.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Topic do you have a PR where this was fixed.
Orie Steele: I don't remember if they are I think they're I think they're being automatically updated it's a process but it's possible I have to be manually rerun I don't remember how I said it up.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I'm looking at the GitHub workflows and neither of them seem to be running the step unless I am missing something.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Okay what I'll do is I'll keep it open and my task will be to just double check if it is actually still or not right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: That's right moving forward then we have number 444 with getting started updates we were looking for documentation allowing new person Julie to allow a new person joining the repo to modify an existing schema add the new scheme and I believe this is done now on this and misremembering we have development MD.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: As the Director of structure has conventions it talks about how to use it and it has a getting started section I believe this is complete unless someone thinks that our getting started needs a bit of a revamp.
Ben_-_Transmute: No I think that there is always room for improvement but I think we can probably say that this is good enough.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Fair enough then you open number four for five which was to remove the optionality of string versus array for type I think you've been tackling this and I think this is the two of the peers that we merge today so that's.
Ben_-_Transmute: I think that probably miss put a name on that one with the pr earlier so that would probably be would probably started considering this to be done.
Ben_-_Transmute: Okay I guess this is this issues generally introducing the idea of do they want to accept that as a we've already been kind of moving that direction in terms of you know removing optionality for this one how does anyone else feel about this and there's anyone else taking steps to go towards.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: So I know on the oil and gas side we have completed this so what I'll do is I'll update the status has to say that steel is done e-commerce is done oil and gas are done and I'll ping Mike to confirm if they are done on actually no looks like some of the crude oil products are not done all right never mind looks like I was taught something different okay.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Ted says please retitle.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: I think I saw since we are at time does anyone have anything urgent I'd like to bring up before we end our call today.
Ben_-_Transmute: Who I guess I'll go ahead and I'll volunteer to the.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: Thank you for that and let me know if the recording failed because we re-recorded right like because we turn it off and turn it on again let me know if that your first anything I am talking to my new in an hour and a half so I'll bring up the issue that you had this which is you're on Mac the local client did not work and chrome did not work and I believe you said Safari also did not work right.
Mahmoud Alkhraishi: But it didn't work last night right so I'll try and talk to a man of today and see I'll give him an update on that hopefully we can get to know.
Ben_-_Transmute: Yeah as a side note on the recording side stuff reporting sorry recording didn't kick start the subtitles to start working again if you hit stops I don't subtitles and start subtitles that works so if that happens again on the call we should probably continue recording and then just toggle the stop start on the subtitles.
Ben_-_Transmute: All right see.