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W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference

Transcript for 2022-11-08

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: See a lot of familiar names and faces I haven't seen or ever so good to see some of the familiar names and faces.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: At least you know in acronym sentence.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Let you put your face on it for crying out loud.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Menu did Stewart still has managed.
Stuart Freeman: Yeah you have to setup gravatar and and the little three dots menu on just so you can set which email address it should look up on gravity.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: How are you good to see you again in Mark yeah look.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: I know he can't do simultaneous but those who can are we close to see people's faces because it's called good stuff you haven't I haven't made it down to inw either in.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: 18 months I want to say.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Or even how are you like crap.
<orie> hey!
Harrison_Tang: Is like a little party going on here I think.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Oh sorry well you tell us ready to go we will socialize.
Kristina: I'm I'm in Dublin actually on.
Harrison_Tang: All right that's a that's do that up sorry Kristina please.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: I know I heard all about it from page or just now so like half my engineering team is in Dublin.
Kristina: Recording has stopped.
Kristina: Okay I'll shut up.
<andrew_hughes> Is the recording running?
<kristina> yes, recording running
<manu_sporny> No, recording is not running :(
<nesim> Hi, first time here, just getting familiar
<manu_sporny> Harrison, try to start it again (or at least start transcription)
<ankur_patel_@_microsoft> :heart:
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Sounds good thank you thank you thank you for calling that out.
Joe Andrieu: Recording his own.
Harrison_Tang: All right any other announcements and reminders.
Harrison_Tang: All right any work items that people want to bring up.
Harrison_Tang: All right so let’s get to the main agenda so we are very pleased to have a Kristina, Ankur and Daniel from Microsoft to talk about their latest developments on Microsoft Entre verify ID at the w3c cgg meeting today so some of you guys know if you know my my impression is that Microsoft Entre Entre verified is actually one of the biggest if not the biggest commercial deployment.
Harrison_Tang: of self sovereign and decentralized identity today.
Harrison_Tang: So I'm very very excited to learn more about the latest innovations that they're doing at Microsoft so the without further Ado just want to give a quick warm welcome to Daniel Ankur and Kristina all right the floor is yours thank you.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Thank you very much my name is Ankur Patel for those who don't know me I lead our product development efforts for entre verified ID which is a managed implementation of all the good Open Standards work that goes on across the industry specifically in the context of decentralised identity so we'll share with you some of our work our learnings along the way the current progress Kristina will cover our progress on implementation of standards and.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: some of the next steps around it and Daniel walk us through the.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: architecture.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: of how we implemented it these are again overviews you have our contact information we're happy to dive into details of any of it if you have questions feedback comments please put it in chat I'll keep an eye on it and I don't know what the rest of the protocol is raise your hands or otherwise I would love for this to be a discussion and we can do some of it now and then of course we can do follow-up discussions as appropriate as well so with that Preamble let's dive in all trying to share my screen I put together a few.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: slides so window do that share.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Can you see that okay.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So we think about this as decentralized identity work at Microsoft which is a key framing which is we have one of the implementers of this big ambition that the community has led for some for a very long time now our work started this incubation hypothesis it took us two years in fact to come to creating this hypothesis which was We Believe each of us needs a digital identity that we own and control and this comes from a place where I'm on.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: the same team that operates Microsoft account that's how you do Xbox Halo windows outlook.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Etc so there's more than a billion people around the world who do those things every day it includes Azure active directory which is the Enterprise identity management system for 96 percent of Fortune 500 companies whole bunch of governments around the world including United Nations.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It includes LinkedIn as our professional right so consumer Professional Network we operate all of these different account systems.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: I think we've come to realize that our digital identity is bigger than that.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And so how might we move towards that world and the reason we want to do it is because our mission statement as a company is to empower every person in business to achieve more not that two or three billion that we reach today and oh by the way make it work whether Microsoft is online or not make it work whether it's Microsoft's policy as a business to allow or not.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: because that's not our.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Choice our choice is about empowerment and then local context whether its regulatory or business can decide how best to partner with each other we want to ensure highest security compliance privacy and convenience for using such systems so that's why we embarked on this journey several years ago and the second part was super important to us because our customers told us these governments are on the world's ….. and by the way make sure it's compatible with the existing internet.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: not Ask people to rewrite all of the in applications devices and their lives to start over for those outcomes so how do we strike a balance between the two these are the two things we hold ourselves accountable to the first release of this went live for us earlier this summer on August 8th so it’s taken us four years to kind of go about doing the best we can do releasing this work and this work today is very much in the Enterprise context we're still not ready to support the scenario.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: The world is imagining in the context of self sovereignty if you will.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: There's a lot more work.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Remains and I'll share with you some of that detail as to why we are making such Nuance statements.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It's a good segue to the current state of affairs on standards I'll hand off to Kristina to walk us through what we've done so far and we we’re trying to go.
Kristina: Yeah so just to give a brief overview mostly should be aware with most of the standards um used in our Tech stack so starting from the entity identifier certainly bottom labels probably wrong but for so we use decentralized identifiers DIDs DID web for issuers and verifiers and DID:ION long form for.
Kristina: issuer holder or.
Kristina: Verifier so our customers would have that choice um and also we do use well-known JID configuration specifications from div to establish binding between DID and see domain name for the lifecycle management /revocation we do use ….. 2021 we're using a pre-draft version you're waiting for a final specification so.
Kristina: hoping it's getting final soon.
Kristina: And we’re hosting it in the identity Hub certain version of decentralized app Note again another disk back for data models the ….. CVC data model so it's a ….. VC transport protocol Vice it's open ID for ….. stack and ….. presentation exchange so yeah it's pretty pretty straightforward I'm that's what we do.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: One comment in the upper right-hand corner that you see we are actively working on exploring ideas around SD job for example for enabling support for Selective disclosure this is one of the examples of us wanting to ensure compatibility with existing internet as well as moving the ball forward on enabling new scenarios but we want to do those scenarios when set standard support is available interoperability is achievable.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So Kristina can you take two more minutes to talk about our interoperability work as well here and then I'll re-Echo that a bit later.
Kristina: Okay yeah that's a great point so our approach to interoperability has been interoperability on profiles there is a work happening in diff is a presentation for starting this presentation profile whereas there is a tech stack on consisting of pretty much standards obviously on the screen as a one way to interpret for certain scenarios mainly you know that you know ….. talk.
Kristina: So that
Kristina: people who.
Kristina: Implementers customers who realize how important moving towards as a issuer verifiable model is and they want to know start implementing on crossing the chasm towards that model they have this clear tech stack you know saying if you implement this you can interoperate right away and again it's not to say that our way or the only way to say it's a way how we can ensure interoperability and means is first to use cases.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Unmute myself so that's a quick overview of our stack there’s a lot more detail in it you might have lots of questions so please put in chat or follow us offline happy to dive into any of that detail as appropriate I'm going to try to queue up a demo so we can actually look at some of this stuff working.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So what does this unlock for us we went and talked to customers and 92% of those organizations today state they do these activities around onboarding employees contractors customers vendors suppliers and that's the pattern that we observed that the best place that we think we can leverage a decentralized approach is on Cross domain verification and these processes listed on the screen that's the start of it.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: the next thing that ends up happening is access to high.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Value applications and resources so Azure active directory for example does tens of billions of daily authentication events at four nines today from an availability and reliability perspective however we want to augment that system to now bring verifiability in or in addition to ease of use and secure.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And so our ambition is to empower our Enterprise customers who end up working with consumers who end up working with governments for that matter some governments are Enterprises in that to use these decentralized rails to continue to have the benefits of ….. security but augmented with privacy and portability this becomes particularly more important when we go to things like Self Service account recovery today most of them rely.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: on things like an email roundtrip or SMS round.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Trip or knowledge base questions like asking what street you grew up on not very interesting go ask Google everybody knows and therefore thinking about how might be bringing verifiability by going to the most suitable authoritative Source without doing custom integration work would be better received as a result 82% of that audience also said They wish there was a safer faster easier way of doing these days so these are bread-and-butter problems for Enterprises today around the world.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: web three and other web and then.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Number we can put on also have similar needs but one of the things we've come to learn is that are here and now companies with budgets and consumers with need that we can address immediately and that's one of the key reasons why I do this job at Microsoft because they have a privileged role to enable this jumpstart adoption of this work for a large set of population.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: We think this credentials therefore can help power the trust fabric for the internet each bubble on the screen today could be considered a cloud right like many universities around the world run on Azure active directory for example.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: but that domain specific.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Credential whether it's an old token or fighter token only work for their own University context but if you issued a verified ID now as an internet facing credential they can continue learning with any preferred institution around the world that chooses to onboard them they can get a student checking account they can get an internship and employer they can improve their skills on LinkedIn they can get a student discount at retailers and so on so forth so we have found tremendous interest from our Enterprise customers.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: on wanting to go this way because it helps their own businesses.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It helps security and compliance it helps them give new value and tailored value for their customers without incurring new privacy and security risks if I may I'll pause here just take a quick temperature check if anybody has any questions or comments before I go into this tells you the why we are doing it next I will show you what is it and how does it actually work.
Harrison_Tang: Actually we have Alan on the queue Alan do you want to ask your question.
Alan Karp: Yeah on your opening slide you said everybody wants to have an identity that they control isn't it more proper to say identities I mean even in the Enterprise I have an identity for my employer but also for the contract I'm working on.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: You're correct and so it's important for us to those knew there were so many words and nuances to consider the important hold on I just turn on my other computer one thing to note is we completely believe that people have to have control over personas and facets of their lives that they share and then it's a matter of are those separate identities or there's personas and we as identity Community have had this debate and argument forever.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: one of the things that we learned from consumer research.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: On this work like end-user how do you think about it their vocabularies that is one of me.
Mike Prorock: +1 Personas vs identities is a very important notion
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: There are different projections of me that I share with different people even in my analog life forget digital and therefore we arrived at this depth idea of a digital identity but the idea is very much about supporting multiple personas profiles construct separation of concerns that has to be rooted in from ground up.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So hopefully that helps clarify some of our comment.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay I'm going to share a quick demo so let's do that anybody else have any comments as I bring up my demo.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay sounds like we're in good shape so I'll go to Woodgrove here I'll try to share from this screen high-wire act I don't know if that's possible or not but I will start sharing.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Hopefully you can see that okay yeah so this scenario as I mentioned for us is Enterprise focused and think about good growth is a fictitious company they're trying to hire someone Matthew Michael gets an email invitation or shows up in person to join this company and the first thing they ask them is hey we don't know you we need you to get verified with a partner We Trust.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: and so in this case they’re.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Sending them to a fictitious company called true identity in such processes have been used by Banks all over the world for a very long time we have done Partnerships with ten leading identity verification companies I'll show you who they are a bit later who can do things like take a selfie upload a ….. identity document but instead of sharing this data on the back end and the user not knowing what kind of did got done in their name in our world we are saying there should be issued a verified ID what a verifiable credential.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So I will go to the screen here and put up that guy next to it.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: For demonstration purpose to make it easy I'm scanning this QR code which results in an open ID connect request I'm having it up in the establish trust across domains I click next I get a credential issued to me I click add in this case true identity is the issuer they are testing to a bunch of claims for their current business process I can go back to my employer and say hey I completed verification with a partner your trust I can present the you that at the station.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: This is a presentation request just like any other open ID connect credential kick this off somehow did it stop sharing.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I lost it at least might need to reshare.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Yeah let me do that trying here we go Click Share rejoining 15 seconds oh I've been disconnected hang on.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Phone got kicked out.
Mike Prorock: Because you're trying to demo this is what always happens yeah.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Is too much to do three devices sharing one corporate Wi-Fi network with personal hotspot.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: But I will keep talking in the meantime so the request here would have been an open ID connect request for requesting a verifiable credential so in our case we are changing that connect request to instead of asking for a ….. token or a fighter token you can now ask for a verifiable credential.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: In this case the verifiable credential that was issued by true identity inc that you saw was against a decentralized identifier that is locally minted on the phone in our case we are currently using ion long form that Orie is on the call I saw him so I can do some name-dropping help develop a while ago and we are continuing to use that the identifier for the issuer.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Is based on didweb and we also support did ion as a method so Enterprises can choose whether they want to use a permission system or a permission less system as their root of trust if you will.
Alan Karp: Excuse me we're seeing we're seeing your slides not the demo.
<orie> Yes! I worked on ION, Sidetree and Well Known DID Configuration... in addition to DID Web. :)
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Yeah I'm about to switch I just joined thank you here we go.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So now I can go back to the demo.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Is a presentation request that I'm getting in this case woodgrove wants to know that I'm in start the presentation request again.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Scan the qr-code.
<orie> Love the QR Code with nested image!
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It should result in a new request.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Click Share and they're able to present oh let's view needs to refresh.
<mprorock> /me cheers at the UX on this
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: All these things were a lot easier when you're getting a room but then to travel.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Actually I don't know if it's any easier in that room we fiddled with the HDMI cable.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay now that I have presented this credential I can continue my onboarding they were able to verify the signature that it came from a partner they trust it has the information they need going forward woodgrove can now issue me a verified employee credential so that's another key thing we're doing is we're going to make every azure id customer be able to issue these credentials whether it's for their employees their vendors their customers their students or whatever it might be.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: and we are making it.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Part of azure id free so.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: That's a commercial thing for us that we believe so strongly in this that it helps improve the zero trust posture that we believe they should be available to all Enterprise customers for free now one of the things about these credentials I can use it not only at work but also Beyond work right so this is my work one the first things I can do is order a computer for a discount for work so I go to the proseware if I want to get my Enterprise discount how many federation's can proseware buy.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Possibly set up versus they can request a credential.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Sort of type verified employee and if my employer is on this list I get my discount.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And best of all one of the things we have embraced is this idea of a receipt so the user has an independently signed receipt of every interaction they have had with a credential so that they can present this for audit and governance for their own lives to Regulators or otherwise.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay so that's a quick demo I'm going to switch back over to slide we're on my end.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So that's what we call entra verified ID it's a common set of apis and rails using which it hasn't switched for you it looks like I will try it again.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: When do your share again.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I think you're up on the screen share here the Microsoft Entra verified.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay and does it showing Entra Verified ID now did I turn off My Demo screen.
Mike Prorock: Yep and I in just a jump in real quick with a quick question the you mentioned receipt is that just coming back in form of a verifiable credential and are you tracking some of the things around like software supply chain and receipts for checking in builds and things like that or trying to align that ability their what.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Yeah that would be an application of this work right so there's no special work we're doing for it but yeah so our colleagues and GitHub rx4 exceptions for example right.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And then LinkedIn is doing their own exploration and Xbox is doing their own exploration so these are all the places how we can see we can help jumpstart adoption of issuance and presentation of set credentials.
Mike Prorock: Okay awesome thank you.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Cool so we think this is a better way to verify not only is it easy to use and secure but it's verifiable transparent and convenient so we are building this into the existing Microsoft authenticator app but as Kristina mentioned we are also making ensuring interoperability so the SDK that we use to build off indicator experiences implementing that same VC interop profile that she described.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: and and we are able to actually.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Demonstrate interoperability with ping workday matter Spruce IBM and a whole bunch of companies.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Avast right so there's a bunch of Partners around the ecosystem who are all kind of holding each other accountable and we're trying to do it the right way one implementation of this is in Microsoft authenticate and we think again we can help adoption on the Enterprise side and some of those other brands can help in other Industries and scenarios for which they are a preferred vendor but most importantly this won't be a one-way Street we are by default ensuring we work with each other.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: okay let's keep going so what’s underneath this.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Is a platform for us the management interface audit for Enterprises to issue requests and verify is built into a portal which is available to every azure id customer today on by default free it's included in their subscription the entire service is comprised of a handful of apis Daniel is our architect on our team he'll walk you through what that looks like next.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: so they.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Simple to use rest apis and then that is the end user wallet like experience which in our case we build into authenticator very implementing again the interop profile the SDK we are keenly interested in that open Wallet work that communities championing next so lots of good stuff happening I hold it to Daniel now on some taking a quick overview for architecture.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: One last thing to add for you Daniel there is that our documentation then points directly to set standards and specs so that if anybody wants to implement their own version they can and still be interoperable.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay so I'm going to move the conversation forward I noticed a question in the chat around custodian wallet or agent so in this case it's an unauthenticated wallets authenticator today as it sits is unauthenticated and it handles creating Keys credentials managing life cycle of keys and credentials basically as well as receipts and you can back that up export the file basically all the contents.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: encrypt it in the pneumonic phrase and take it to another wallet
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Of your choice this is one of the areas that we want to continue to work with the community on making that experience better but hopefully that answers your question did the organizers want to recognize anyone else on their questions or comments before I keep going forward it again if you want to cover anything else.
Mike Prorock: No I think.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I think you hit for sure it looks like Steve's question there which is I think I had an overlap on as well the one question that I did want to get on because you do mention kind of and call out that they're you know you're utilizing obviously the verified ID rest API that you guys have published up I mean the open ID for VP and VCI cetera right that's that's moving along nicely in this kind of out in the open what's your sense around like rest apis and.
Orie Steele: +1 Help us build the traceability api!
Mike Prorock: Getting into more of like system to system type use cases and non-interactive use cases I mean are you guys planning on you know collaborating because obviously if I think about like supply chain use cases working with you know is that an area you guys would be willing to collaborate with you know all okay.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Absolutely look the default answer is yes it's a matter of when and how we go about.
Mike Prorock: Okay because I think the Dynamics Team in particular right would be a great participant with your guys input especially the traceability API as Orie is noting in the chat so yeah.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Yeah absolutely and by the way we're working with those same colleagues right so Dynamics also has a thing called fraud for example and office has a set of things where you do signing for example and so on so forth all the boring enterprising things there is a there's a widget of that in our company and we are super interested in it we have our own supply chain concerns even for our own devices and software Supply chains for that matter as well right.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: so these are all pressing problems for us but we thought was we first want to get.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Identity of organizations and individuals represent such organizations to be trustworthy at which point I can go talk about applications and processes and devices that those persons and organizations operate until we achieve tension things.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay so I will proceed.
Mike Prorock: That makes total sense than really appreciate the you know kind of logical flow and real clear diagramming here so thanks again from the chairs here and I think there was one other wasn't it on the Queue yeah hang on yep Allen or Steve might still be on.
Alan Karp: Yeah do you have anything about the key and credential recovery or you're going to leave that up to the individual companies.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Today we just have a rudimentary offer which is for the individual side you are able to backup or export the key the credentials and the receipts into a bundle that isn't protected using a pneumonic phrase and then you can place it wherever you like including Google drive or your home desktop and then there is an ability to import that back into authenticator at least we understand it we're working with our interop.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Partners to figure out where else we could use such a thing or.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Who else would be supporting and making it better that's in fact one of the slides in here is next steps on we want to do much better on it and if Community has ideas on what that could be up to do it.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Should I keep rolling.
Mike Prorock: Yeah I think think good to go thanks.
<mprorock> would love thoughts on hardware sec integration and isolation later if we have time
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Okay so the scenarios are next right so what where do we see energy from the community around it particularly around our Enterprise customers again it is on that faster remote onboarding it is securing access and recovery and as well as business process so the onboarding thing even into the especially in today's economic environment it's super competitive and people want to reduce their costs both in.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Time and money that it takes to do this and these are existing budget line item for every Enterprise to go make this better and it happens across the board across the world and each one resulting in poor privacy and security posture and compliance ….. And so.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Describing the value there and making it reusable has landed really well the other key place where it applies is securing access to privileged apps so as I mentioned we do tens of billions of daily authentication events some of them for example let's take my own CFO for my company goes and approved high-value transactions such a financial officer for Microsoft but they use the same multi-factor authentication as they do to check their email we think we could do better and bringing in there.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: real-world identity and verification and being able to verify from trusted sources whether it’s the government.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Or other applications like security training and clearance super valuable so there's a whole bunch of initiative around skills learning and using those at the stations to prove proficiencies to gain access to resources.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: and from a security zero trust perspective.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It is proving to be a really valuable asset because now you're no longer relying on a single domain testing new things.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And because of the simple apis that Daniel described they can go request these apis from disparate issuers who could be running on completely disparate infrastructure.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: They could have a workday system issuing their workplace credentials and they could be using an IBM system who's issuing their training credentials and they could all be presented into authenticator and gone on to azure id accepting them.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: right for this customer.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Who wants to work across that ecosystem.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: That federating through the user has landed really really well with our Enterprise customers one of those other places given again today's economic climate at most companies that super keen on is reducing their cost around support as you may have heard.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Like every phone call you make to get your password reset is $50 that's like a crazy number and if you can get down to seconds and significantly cheaper both for the user and by the way it's better for privacy and security so win win win so we have found our customers are resonating with a cheaper faster more trustworthy way to verify these types of flows and other stations and it's every business.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Process in the industry and as much as I keep talking about enterprise.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: We have to realize that every consumer interaction with a brand whether you're going to a hotel or a restaurant or getting on an airplane is an Enterprise interaction and it's these Enterprises are making those design choices.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: and so our goal.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Here is to make that as simple and intuitive as possible to enable that customer choice and empowerment that I started to call when there's a bunch of case studies that are public I adopted these slides but we have a few new ones now in addition some of the next steps if you like actually I can I just saw comment go by I'll recap what these three things are keio University is using it for student identity and not only having that identity verified on campus would be on campus National Health.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Services in u.k. is using it for our staff passport for the caregivers.
<kristina> keio is also alumni creds and their internal IT staff creds
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Because doctors go from hospital to hospital and getting their identity verified time and again results in time taken away from providing care government of Flanders is looking at they already have digital identity for their citizens they want to issue these kinds of credentials to Citizens so that they can open a new business or do business around the world and still be able to easily verify their identity while respecting their privacy.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: some of the next steps we’re focused on.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: We think we made good progress on registration key management interoperability and it will continue by no means we're done however the next thing we need to add and improve on as Allen was just asking as well is around recovery making it more better on revocation on being able to check finder and attributes how do we reduce correlation there next up onstage for us is things are on selective disclosure and maybe even zero knowledge proof but again you want to lead with interoperability standards first we have more work to do that as a community.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: the second key area that we're focused on is performance and scale as Daniel was mentioning.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: So did web is the.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Default configuration we have enabled we do support did ion as a preview method and it really relies on customer adoption but from APIs and user experience perspective and developer experience perspective they don't know any different on which DID method are interacting with by by Design we opted for that when we do make it very clear for issuers and verifiers on where do you want to go and why and so on so forth so we have some customers exploring use of did ion but most of them feel very comfortable starting with.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: did web and then exploring moving up to a permissionless system but.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Currently everyone starts with this did web world they're also thinking about other methods to support some of them are being proposed by things like European Union digital identity initiatives some of them are being proposed by large corporations who want to do consortiums and they want to do their own permission thing whether it's based on ethereum or some other flavor but for all of them be pushed towards a common attraction is that the DID method.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: please provide that.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And we'll follow the same pattern that we've been talking about as an architecture.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: The last one they always ask for the community is we continue to do all of our work and diff and w3c so come join that growing movement so these are standard Slide by the way I use with all of my customers.
<phil_l_(p1)> Going back to DIDs, It appears your using a single did and profiles to contextualize their role in different contexts rather than supporting multiple DIDs for different uses. Further explanation as to why?
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: And we've seen tremendous uplift on it there's a bunch of other companies Beyond contributing to standards are also helping activate now on participating on developing policy helping evolved business models and so on so forth.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: That's a quick update but I do want to say thank you first of all to you guys who tirelessly work in forums like these and many others for that matter Kristina had quite the alphabet soup so all this work doesn't neatly happen in one room you guys know it more than most of us do so I just wanted to take a minute and on behalf of a product guy wanted to say thank you because this is like a quest it's a 10-year thing I feel like I'm a third of the way in have a long way to go but I feel very optimistic.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: because of all these resources we have created from starting with this idea of like.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: What is this decent ….. why do I need it what I don't understand to now I can't I don't have enough time in my calendar well for my team for that matter around the world to handle the rate of inbounds and a lot of it is still there spending on education and awareness on why do you need it where is it appropriate what are some of the challenges what are what is the art of possible versus true reality today at least in our product.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: these are some of the resources we share with our customers as well.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: You’ll get this deck as well and if you have other questions for this please hit us up I want to be respectful of your time and calendar though and we can spend more time on Q&A if you like.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you Ankur Phil I think you have some question you have the floor.
Phil_L_(P1): Yes can you hear me.
Phil_L_(P1): Great this is it appears that you're using profiles as a way of contextualizing different dimensions of users for different for different roles opposed to allowing for multiple individual dids to be Associated or multiple digital be associated with a person that was just curious to why that approach in this particular instance.
<kristina> profile is purely for interop
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: I might have misspoken or misunderstood in this case that's not what we're doing we are in fact doing what you just stated which is there could be a different identifier associated with any given credential the relying party or verifier can request one or more of those things verify each of those subjects Association or binding with it independently but using one set of apis the profile construct in fact is something that we're exploring.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: the context of decentralized web nodes and such again starting with a enterprise.
<kristina> how DIDs are assigned can be defined in the profile
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Entity relationship first and then maybe do end-user the profile of word that we use specifically is as Kristina’s pointing out in the chat is in the context of interop and so the interopability has a profile with says said standard ingredients used in this manner this recipe results in interoperability among us as ecosystem Partners it was not in the context of holder presenting credentials.
Phil_L_(P1): Got it thank you very much.
<mark_foster> How are you defining Schema
Harrison_Tang: I have a question how does my impression of active directory is that it has a registry of employees in big Enterprises and if my impression is correct how does the how does the DIDs underlying the verified IDs like work with active directory.
<kristina> we have few credential type templates + custom types customers can define
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It turns out actually it's not even the users accounts that are in there right those actually sit the profile of an employee actually sits in human Capital Management Systems like workday and sap or Oracle or something what is in Azure active directory or active directory is a permission management system which says here's what how we're going to do access management here's how we'll all authenticate here's how I'll authorize here’s who has access to what application so and so forth.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: what we are now introducing is verifiable credentials as one such method.
<kristina> ^ re schema question
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Using which you can verify attributes which could have come from Azure active directory active directory workday sap whatever we're saying here is a standard way of doing it across disparate systems does that make sense.
Harrison_Tang: Yes thank you.
<mark_foster> How do you map schema to Linked Open Vocabularies
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: It's no longer about usernames and passwords which is what we have been true traditionally relying on and now the modern Incarnation could be an MFA or a …. key but in all of those cases The Binding between an object ID which is in the directory and that credential is sitting in the directory and we are saying what if it wasn't there what if it was with the user instead.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: as a result I don’t have the right app.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: That speaks specifically to One Directory at a time I can talk to anyone.
<kristina> we do not do linked data rn
Harrison_Tang: Got it so essentially the active directory becomes more of a personal Pursuit permissioning and also kind of authorization authentications kind of service and then the ID registry is somewhere else basically okay.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: That's right we've come to learn that in fact our customers have told us the real value that azure id provides is this orchestration right it's not the source of Truth the source of Truth is your human Capital management system or your CRM system for consumers or whatever it might be.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: But what you want is a common interface using which you can ensure Integrity perform security compliance all of that stuff that you don't want a ….. application you do it using a service like Azure active directory or your preferred while you could use ….. or whatever it might be.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: as long as they support standards.
Harrison_Tang: Got it so what if sorry for all the questions what if the service doesn't support these standards like some of the for example some of the issuers are not as familiar with a verifiable credentials and DID Concepts like what do you do there do you do some kind of proxy like issuer ….. or.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Yeah it's back to today's world right so today if I go to your I don't know you visit my company and we don't set up Federation and I'm going to ask you to create a local account right.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: No different which is another important point though on ensuring compatibility existing internet you can't say sorry I can't do business with you no do I have to be able to work with you we have to provide alternate rails what are those and what our users are saying is I don't want to do different gestures and I'd learn different rituals I just want one way either I fill out a form or scan and present or something right it just better work everywhere.
Harrison_Tang: Got it thank you.
Harrison_Tang: Any questions from the community.
Mike Prorock: I'm just going to throw in a chair another chair comment which I'm sure Harrison would Echo is just really appreciate this Ankur and team like you know it's one it's always great seeing this stuff roll out for a variety for a variety of contexts but two actually seeing proposals that will scale that match and blend with real-world use cases and can integrate clearly obviously nothing's perfect and we're always going to keep evolving and improving and trying to find.
Mike Prorock: Better interoperability you know Etc.
<orie> yes, really awesome work!
<kristina> let's cross the chasm towards issuer-holder-verifier model together so that we can build more use-cases
Mike Prorock: But uhh just really appreciate the openness this is very helpful I think it's very helpful to the community and as I mentioned before especially around like traceability API like if that seems like a good Next Step we'd be happy to bring you guys into that and collaborate on that so.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Absolutely and look up this is going I genuinely think this is going to take a community effort for all of us to partner together and I work in some of these other forums and when you don't get that feedback of like is your work bettering is it going somewhere and how does it all right so I'm happy I do this with my partners and customers I'm happy to come do this every quarter every six months whatever you guys think is the high frequency at least for our part and we can share.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: updates I can bring my customers to tell you stories if it helps.
Mike Prorock: Yeah that that absolutely would be great to get on some of that like customer feedback and integration into other areas obviously a lot of us that are you know testing your APIs are working with you guys you know in one capacity or another you know are here on this call but the ecosystems broadening so much right and that's a great thing so we should definitely you know have some offline you know chats between ourselves obviously Kristina is one of the chairs of the VC working group but with Brent as well right.
Mike Prorock: Right and just see about you know let's look at some of these practical things and make sure we're working some of that stuff into the.
Mike Prorock: Schedule coming up so really once again really appreciate it.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Thanks everyone you have our contact info please ping us if we can be of any help anybody else have any closing comments or anything else.
Harrison_Tang: Sorry I have one curiosity question so any single identity can have multiple they can wear multiple hats right so identity can be a issuer it can be a verifier it can be like a data subject holder itself right so my question is how do you kind of deal with the multiple roles or for lack of better term personas for a single issuer how do you deal with that especially how do you educate.
Harrison_Tang: these users as well as how do you on the.
Harrison_Tang: Ui/ux side how do you actually clarify these complicated Concepts.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Such a good question in fact one of the things I always talk about the hardest bit about this stuff is actually ease of use and ease of use on helping audiences understand these Concepts that's one of the key concerns we have around selective disclosure knowledge proof stuff of how do I understand what the heck is actually happening forget you would you can technically do it so for our part this idea of fitting the current model of presenting credentials is something that normal users understand and creating the ceremony.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: of this is the party of.
<kristina> ah - would be great if we can work on the trust frameworks together :) that is absolutely necessary to prevent verifiers over-requesting data
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Requesting something from you this is the party who is going to receive this information hence the idea of a receive ironically we are trying to model more of the analog world in terms of such ceremonies and rituals we feel like the digital world is actually lagging compared to what we can do in our everyday life quite fast and fluid so that's our inspiration around it and we've created trust markers we have created markers in the user presentation and we can talk through the ux more detailed.
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: next time we chat but these are all the things we test with end users to get feedback on.
<mprorock> /me thinks that is very well said
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: Inspiring that confidence understanding specifically not just kind of the word service the lip service of.
<mprorock> otherwise we would have no paper credentials left in supply chain
Ankur_Patel_@_Microsoft: informed consent like actually trying to test it and making sure like is there enough information on the screen that helps you understand the of you feeling over about for example that's part of the reason why you choose authenticator or somebody else for example was not putting those work and care and finesse that will be required does that make sense.
Harrison_Tang: Yes thank you.
Harrison_Tang: All right thanks Ankur and thank you Daniel thank you Kristina for coming here and spending your time to present your latest work on the Microsoft entra verify ID thank you.
<ankur_patel_@_microsoft> thank you team - really appreciate your leadership and partnership!
<mark_foster> Thank you
<rohit_gulati> Thank you all
Harrison_Tang: Any any last announcement or reminders introductions.
Alan Karp: I had a question I tried to access the documents but it asked me to login is that correct that I do something wrong.
Kristina: Sorry login where.
Alan Karp: At the
Alan Karp: Those are some of the links for some of the on the slide.
Kristina: I'm No usually you shouldn't have to login.
Alan Karp: That's what I would have thought but okay I'll figure it out.
Kristina: Yeah feel free to send me like which doesn't work and I can help but ya know usually doesn't require.
Harrison_Tang: Cool Kaliya oh sorry.
<orie> Hey Mark!
Mark_Foster: I wanted to say hello I'm new to the group I just wanted to say hello I'm Mark Foster and I'm working on some I've been coming from a solid world you know solid project Tim berners-lee's project and I'm learning more about the community here and decentralized IDs so looking forward to learning from you guys.
<orie> Welcome!
Mike Prorock: Awesome great to have you thanks for jumping in on the reintro at the end here so.
<mprorock> hard stop for me - thanks again!!! all
Harrison_Tang: Welcome Mark Kaliya do you have any announcements that you want make.
Harrison_Tang: No problem thank you.
Harrison_Tang: Thanks a lot.