The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

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W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference

Transcript for 2022-12-13

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Doing that right now.
Kimberly Linson: Of course when you did that I got kicked out did anybody else get kicked out or is it just me.
Harrison_Tang: I think just you.
Kimberly Linson: All right well I'm back it said do you want to rejoin and I said yes alright so hi everybody this is our last meeting of 2022 and I don't know this is the time of year Harrison and I were sort of talking for everybody came on where I really like the opportunity to to do a little bit of reflection at the end of the year and then start to think about kind of you know what is next year going to look like and so that really is what.
Kimberly Linson: What today is about is taking a little bit of.
Kimberly Linson: Time to talk about what we've been doing over the last year and as I've been preparing for this this morning I kind of got like a little excited about all the things that have happened this year and just I think the momentum around credentials.
Kimberly Linson: From what I hear from.
Kimberly Linson: All of you it seems that way to me but I hear you Echo it that it's there's a momentum here that is new and exciting and I definitely think 2023 has a lot in store for us so that's what we're going to talk about in a few minutes and but let me run through our housekeeping items you know I just a reminder about the code of ethics and professional conduct I’ll take a stealer.
Kimberly Linson: From my slide and say I actually feel like you know over the last several months you know I think at the beginning of when I started we were kind of having a conversation around how do we really be respectful and I feel like we've really actually been doing a great job with that and how I am enjoying really how the list is working and how we're able to communicate on that list and so well done but also let's keep.
Kimberly Linson: Continuing to keep that in.
Kimberly Linson: Mind and really remember that we're all trying to achieve the same goals the IP note is here in the agenda we welcome anybody to participate in these calls if you are going to contribute substantial work then you need to go ahead and join and sign that contributor license agreement we keep notes for this call and and minutes and a recording so that you're able to go back and review it which I think is a.
Kimberly Linson: Really helpful I know I missed a.
Kimberly Linson: Couple that I really was excited about and so having that record in addition to providing us with documentation of what we're doing and what we're working on also gives us the opportunity to to revisit things that we might be interested in and so now I get to come to the time where I'm looking for introductions and reintroductions if you're new to the community we’d love to hear from you and welcome you and if you haven’t.
Kimberly Linson: Even been here for a while we'd love to welcome you back.

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Kimberly Linson: Anybody want to join the queue for that if you want to you can just type Q+ and I will call on you or Harrison will call on you someone will call on you.
Kimberly Linson: All right no no one is going to introduce themselves today how about announcements and reminders.

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

Manu Sporny: Hi couple of just end of the year announcements there are going to be there's going to be at least one more work item probably presented around verifiable issuers verifiers possibly in the next couple of weeks so just a heads up to everyone to keep an eye out for that on the mailing list and that'll probably be followed by just a work item requests and we expect to.
Manu Sporny: Kind of kick that work off.
Manu Sporny: Early next year it has a lot of overlap with the trust Registries work that's being done at ToIP and all that kind of stuff and all these groups are more have been coordinating so that's kind of exciting for the new year as a work item also this week the status list 2021 spec that this group’s working on is expected to be you know up for a vote on whether or not we're going to pull it into the verifiable credentials working group so just a heads up to the chairs that we may.
Manu Sporny: Need to push some buttons to get a final community group specification published for that item.
Manu Sporny: And I think that's largely it.
Kimberly Linson: Great thank you Kaliya.
Kaliya Young: I just wanted to share again about the APAC event that were pulling together March 1 to 3 in Bangkok Thailand it's inspired by IIW but it's called the APAC digital identity unconference and yeah so that's my announcement thanks it doesn't.
Kaliya Young: Have I’ll send I’ll share.
Kaliya Young: A link to my save the date notice we don't have a site up yet.
Kimberly Linson: Perfect thank you David.
David Chadwick: Just a heads up that I’m currently just talking with Mark … who chairs the IDA Working Group within the Open ID Foundation which is an identity assurance primarily designed for banking finance but to give high assurance and we’re looking at how we might incorporate this as an evidence field in verifiuable credentials. At the moment, we haven’t decided whether the issue will be a work item proposed to this group or to the Open ID Foundation, but just a heads up if people are interested in that, give me a nod, thanks
<manu_sporny> David, very interested in that!
Kimberly Linson: Great you're right on the theme for today Harrison.
Harrison_Tang: Yeah just a quick reminder we won't have meetings next Tuesday and Tuesday after that and will resume the first week of January and I can send out the w3c ccgi meeting calendar shortly.

Topic: Status of Work Items

Kimberly Linson: We Harrison has been working really hard on on the education Tuesday calls and we have some great things lined up in the in the New Year I'm really excited about the topics we have coming okay I am going to move us to our main topic which is really to talk about the work items and I took a minute to prepare some slides and I'm gonna try to share them.
Kimberly Linson: Did I do it are you seeing key accomplishments oh good phew I will put the link to to this in the chat when I'm finished but I just wanted to take a minute to kind of again as I said that the beginning.
Kimberly Linson: Reflect on what's happened.
Kimberly Linson: This year and I really like stats and it took me a minute to figure out I am not a GitHub Wiz and so some of you may have a better way for me to do this because I wasn't actually able to do just this year this is these are the stats for for everything that is on GitHub but I was kind of Blown Away that we have 112 repositories that are a part of the ccg they're written in six languages.
Kimberly Linson: 886 Issues 420 forks.
Kimberly Linson: That seems like a lot of work that's been done as a part of the ccg so that's kind of one one area where I feel like we have done an incredible job this Tuesday call over the last year as I looked back and saw the the various topics like the nft identity the digital wallets did actor all the things we've done around plugfest the protocol match we've had some incredible topics and I know I I for one have.
Kimberly Linson: Learned an incredible amount over the last year and I think the conversation.
Kimberly Linson: On the list as I mentioned earlier has been really interesting and moving the work forward which is great one of the things that I feel especially pleased about is that we really have Incorporated some new member onboarding if you're not a new member you don't know about this but if you have joined over the last year then you have gotten a welcome email with a link to a presentation that gives you kind of just a sense of what it is that we do here.
Kimberly Linson: And I think that that has you know this this community has been.
Kimberly Linson: Growing very very quickly and I think having that in place will help us to get more folks who are actively contributing just in my stats I wanted to sort of pull this up this this was interesting to me the different languages and then you can see these these work items that have been a focus for us traceability signatures VC API just how much work.
Kimberly Linson: Work has been done.
Kimberly Linson: Over the course of time that this event just item has been active and again congratulations to everyone this is a this is a lot of work and so and the work specifically so now I'm going to stop sharing for a second and I've asked some folks to come and share what they've been working on this year and in these work items and so let me look down my list here and.
Kimberly Linson: I'm just going to call on you and if you want to kind of jump in and put up put yourself on the Queue and then we're it will definitely be inviting everyone from the community to be a part of this conversation but let me just go ahead and Tobias are you on.
Kimberly Linson: I don't see him yet all right and how about Manu you're going to help me out by volunteering to go first.
Manu Sporny: No problem so I think there's some really interesting things that we've accomplished this year Kimberly if you know the the stats that you showed are great right I mean it's great to see that much engagement across multiple different work items you know we are now as a group I think like wait well over 500 members.
Manu Sporny: And we're having to have.
Manu Sporny: Multiple calls per week out of necessity like we have so many you know parallel work items that need dedicated calls and in those dedicated calls there you know between you know 10 to 18 extra people per call that's happening vc edu’s like huge now right it keeps gaining momentum and in in size and the number of things they're working on Traceabilities you know got some really solid you know engagement week to.
Manu Sporny: Week and are you know.
Manu Sporny: Generating enormous amounts of you know content in their vocabularies and specification so I think it's like really neat to see the community fan out like we really fanned out this year into multiple parallel work items I wanted to share really quickly like where we were at the beginning of the year so at the beginning of the year we didn't know if decentralized identifiers were going to be allowed to be a global standard you know a w3c.
Manu Sporny: Like we were right in the grips of being effectively.
Manu Sporny: Locked out from the last stage and there was a lot of disagreement about how to you know proceed and there were some failings when it came to w3c process that made it last really long time and because of that it put all the verifiable credentials work in danger like we couldn't recharter that and you know in hindsight we can look back and go oh yeah we totally made it past that like decentralized identifiers are a global web standard today. Full stop
Manu Sporny: It exists because of the work that we did we made it past.
Manu Sporny: That what seemed back then to be this thing that we may not survive like that spec might not survive that but today we know it did in the verifiable credentials 20 work has now been chartered like we didn't even predict that for whatever reason it wasn't even on here on our kind of Standards roadmap but we're well into that work now that was that Charter was approved during the summer.
Manu Sporny: So just that in and of itself is I think a huge accomplishment for this community and getting decentralized identifiers 10 done and shipped in getting a verifiable credentials 20 Charter done in and now you know we're very much in the throes of that group in getting things moved forward for those that haven't seen this the every I try every year to try and capture the work items that.
Manu Sporny: This group's kind of involved in.
Manu Sporny: And you know we in and so if you look at the years this is like 2024 and we're here right now right at the change in 2023 and there are things that we were not necessarily predicting to go standards track that are going standards track now like credential status list 2021 this week is supposed to be discussed to go straighter standards track we weren't expecting that to happen.
Manu Sporny: Until 2024.
Manu Sporny: Basically the credential Handler API we just had a really great call yesterday with like Google and Mozilla and Microsoft you know browser teams on the line this community showed up in a big way there like that was a 43 person call their their usually calls are usually not that that big and there were lots of people from the community that were participating.
Manu Sporny: Rdf data set canonicalization.
Manu Sporny: Is on the standards track right now there's an active working group and that work you know largely came from this group data Integrity same thing Json Webb signature 2020 and then of course there are a variety of other things that we are still kind of looking at so lots of stuff transitioned onto the standards track this year and I think that's something we should definitely be happy about and celebrating and on top of that there was.
Manu Sporny: Interoperability plugfest the jobs for the future interop plugfest.
Manu Sporny: That got like a ton of organizations demonstrating interoperability with the technologies that we've built here over the years and that was no small feat like they were a lot of companies that were involved in that interop plugfest and not all of them are listed here right there's a there's a another group you know that was that was involved there so like huge gains made and them actually demonstrating real interoperability out in the out in the open this year so I think we should be.
Manu Sporny: Really really proud of.
Manu Sporny: You know what we've been able to accomplish and and I wanted to underscore how what an amazing job the chairs are doing in this group like there it used to be like before kind of this year I mean you know in the past it was hard for us to kind of predict like what are we going to be talking about next week or the week after that in you know our chairs today we have things like planned out into like February of next year right.
Manu Sporny: We have never really been in that position in.
Manu Sporny: The past and so you know kudos to the chairs who are doing an amazing job finding seeing what's on the horizon and inviting people in to speak about those things so that we can get you know more work items and more work done in this community that's it for now.
Kimberly Linson: Thanks manu I think it's a it's a testament to how like much excitement there is around this world that there are so many I mean we're coming to the point now where we're like okay well we got to really consider like what what what do we have time for because there are so many great great Concepts and things to learn about to thank you Joe do you mind if I put you on the spot next.
Joe Andrieu: Can you hear me now you can I wasn't prepared to say anything but I guess you know I want to Echo Manu’s Point as a past chair of this group you know we did live hand-to-mouth with regular weekly meetings say hey what are we going to talk about this week and sometimes we had great stuff and sometimes we didn't so I do appreciate that the current leadership has put some systems in place and some processes so we have some visibility which lets people plan you know whether or not to attend.
Joe Andrieu: I think the most interesting work that we’ve seen.
Mike Prorock: +1 Joe and major Kudos to Kaliya
<manu_sporny> Yes, definitely -- Kaliya and Lucy's work is making a huge difference!
Joe Andrieu: In this last week I'm sorry this last year I want to highlight Kaliya’s work with the state of California I think that really has been an amazing shift in sort of the muggle’s awareness of how this these Technologies might actually change real business and governance processes so I think that's my big highlight even though it's not something I worked on that's what I would mention.
Kimberly Linson: It's a great one and I completely as a muggle I completely agree Mike.
Mike Prorock: Such common name I didn't I.
Kimberly Linson: Yeah I know it's you I mean I gave you I told you I was putting you on the spot first thing I didn't so.
Mike Prorock: No I mean number of things I mean you know one I do want to really give a big kudos to you and Harrison both I mean it's been awesome to have kind of a core group that can like continually stay in touch ask questions plan things out to engage with different aspects of the community like we all know different people kind of throughout the community and go okay what's going on what's actually happening what's happening on the mailing list how should we line.
Mike Prorock: Stuff up and to do that well in advance has been awesome.
Mike Prorock: It's also given us a good ability to go engage and say and drive other people to be interested in the ccg that otherwise really would just be off doing business stuff right which is cool like it’s important but this cross-pollination I think is really key work item and stretch out stuff has been big right a one of the things that is constantly on my mind especially over I would say the last 90 days and obviously we've talked about it as.
Mike Prorock: You know chairs.
Mike Prorock: Is well what is the evolution going on with ccg now that like oh VCS and dids are both the thing we weren't sure that was actually going to happen and it happened and obviously we're still you know working on enhancements and incubating stuff I I great cases like status list is going to be critical right to go get involved in some way and get actually get standardized it's a an essential function but what does that mean for what's going to happen for the future of ccg and what.
Mike Prorock: Topics are going to come up and.
<kaliya_identitywoman> Thanks Joe! The SB786 passing was part of the Verifiable Credentials POlicy Committee under BAC - We have new leadership at the Blockchain Advocacy Coalition - and considering how to build on the success of SB786 for next year and looking for additional coalition members -
Mike Prorock: Then what is going to be the major work items right and we're seeing some of that evolving now and that's interesting to watch it's also interesting to me to think about okay how can we as chairs support and how can we be there for the community to help promote things that are going on and bring special topic calls up you know kind of as appropriate and as things are going on like you know the kaliya work with.
Mike Prorock: You know California and you know.
Mike Prorock: Items like hey let's go look about how to integrate this stuff into browsers right these are these are all really really critical important things and I think kudos to the community for doing all the legwork so we're here to support and Bug us if we're doing something wrong none of us all of us have thick skins none of us will get hurt if you tell us we're idiots like we're here for you as much as we can be and you know like that feedback from the community so just thanks everyone.
Mike Prorock: For being here and continually showing up and doing the work and moving stuff forward so.
Kimberly Linson: Thanks Mike Orie what have you been up to this year.
Orie Steele: Mostly working on the traceability vocabulary and the API.
Orie Steele: I think those are the only items I've been actively contributing to that I can recall in recent memory.
Kimberly Linson: Do you mind doing everybody kind of an update on where they're at.
Orie Steele: Sure so as part of the vocabulary work we have been exploring ways of managing json-ld contexts and Json schemas together there's some tooling that we built a while ago that we're still using that supports generating a json-ld context from a folder of annotated Json schema.
Orie Steele: Since we’ve been using that I thinks Spruce has released a similar sort of themed tool called tree ldr which is a different language but helps accomplish the sort of similar objective as part of that vocabulary work we spend a lot of time looking at what's the Json schema shape what's the json-ld rdf shape and can we improve both of them in a way that it's obvious and easy for maybe.
Orie Steele: Contributors without a lot of.
Orie Steele: Experience in rdf data modeling and at the same time are there components of rdf data modeling that we really ought to be paying more attention to and that can improve the consumption and experience of verifiable credentials that make use of some of these more advanced semantic data modeling considerations.
Orie Steele: Another part of that vocabulary work that we've been fairly actively involved in is sort of looking at what we call traceable sort of presentations and workflows so that's a cedar series of verifiable presentations between parties where you have you know maybe party a presenting a series of credentials to party B they might make those they might present all those credentials at once or they might present you know the.
Orie Steele: First two and then.
Orie Steele: Depending on the result it might then present additional credentials later on so how do we think about so if series of presentations between parties series is of issuance and verification and presentation across supply chain parties and you know when we think about data exchange using the verifiable credentials data model what are the requirements that a verifier would need you know before given workflow is complete so we've done a lot of modeling around.
Orie Steele: That sort of scenario for.
Orie Steele: Our supply chain workflows another area that we spent a lot of time on has been interoperability testing credit to measure for their work on the traceability interoperability profile which is a subset of the trade the VC API but has some really awesome testing infrastructure capabilities where we can register once and then do automated cross testing if these beautiful Sunburst.
Orie Steele: Diagrams and charts and visualizations for how.
Orie Steele: Folks are doing and those tests run every night and those visuals are rebuilt every time the tests are run I think one other area that we've looked at has been the efficiency of presentations so verifiable presentations are often authenticated so that requires the prover to get a challenge from the verifier and that's great if you have a human in the loop and you're really trying to bind that authentication event.
Orie Steele: To that particular.
Orie Steele: Point but it can be sort of problematic if you're really just trying to have one party send a bunch of data to another party using a verifiable presentation and so we've done a lot of work looking at oauth secured traceable presentations where a client basically is authenticated and the client sends verifiable presentations to the server and they don't have to do an interactive authentication step as part of each presentation.
Orie Steele: I think that's probably enough of a summary.
Kimberly Linson: That's a great summary all right well let me open it up to to the entire group are there work items that you've been working on this year that you want to let the community know where they stand.
Kimberly Linson: Please add yourself to the queue.
Kimberly Linson: Manu are you still on the queue.
Manu Sporny: No I should be off the queue but since I'm speaking I'd love to hear from kaliya and Lucy about their work on California I'm guessing like you know people people can't read everything that comes across their desk but I think it's vital the work that they did because it's one of the first well I don't want to it's a really important engagement that I feel is new to this.
Manu Sporny: Community meaning like we have you know for many years we were.
Manu Sporny: Very focused like razor sharp focused on the technology and we weren't really that focused on communicating outside or you know training folks on how to write specs and how to engage with the community and I think there have been a lot of there's been a lot of progress there in at this point like we now literally literally have nation states that are looking at the work that we're doing in planning National.
Manu Sporny: Strategy National digital identity strategy.
<mprorock> I see David on queue as well - he and I for sure are involved in multiple policy items
Manu Sporny: Around the stuff that we're doing so that happens at both the the state you know level as well as National level and so kind of hearing you know from Kaliya and Lucy about the process that they went to to 1 get legislation into law right and 2 how that process has been working I think would that might help other people kind of like find their place in the community as far as like a here's a way that you can contribute.
Manu Sporny: Right.
Manu Sporny: Anyway so sorry to put you on the spot Kaliya but.
Kaliya Young: Yeah so thanks manu so the good news is that I'm bringing the colleagues that I worked with at the blockchain advocacy Coalition and our verifiable credentials policy committee that I led to come and speak to the group to go into those details Jamie Miner who is our lobbyist zoomed in to IIW and we did a session there so we'll we'll bring.
Kaliya Young: That to ccg in the new year I think.
Kaliya Young: Um a key piece of it was you know Tony Rose connected up to Ali Medina and she is a you know I don't know much about politics in California and I still feel like I know very little but I certainly know more about it than I did two years ago and really it's a process of relationship building and connecting to legislators who want to make a difference and so.
Kaliya Young: Through her.
Kaliya Young: Connections and our contract lobbyist Jamie you know led the we work with Senator hertzberg and his office to originally the idea that we had was to put forward a trust framework for the state and we went through one house one committee and and hearing successfully for that but then it got suspended in Appropriations because it was like going to cost money to make a trust framework.
Kaliya Young: And our sponsor senator.
Kaliya Young: Hertzberg wanted to do something and so we were like let's do something smaller let's just change the regulations amend the regulations about what was needed to issue vital records and this actually was motivated by a real crisis that happened during the pandemic is that some counties ran out of the fancy paper that by law they are required to use to issue these.
Kaliya Young: Documents and there was no.
Kaliya Young: Alternative so now there is this kind of backup / forward-looking alternative with with digital and I think yeah so so basically that hopefully that's enough for now in terms of explaining the process but we’ll we’ll in the New Year bring Jamie to the group and we can talk more about it and I want to say that there are some work.
Kaliya Young: Items that.
Kaliya Young: Lucy and I both do and some work items that she does and some work items I do so I've been really working on that California work independent of Lucy but I think you know she and I are definitely a team working on many many things including the the latest community-oriented work that we've done around trying to make sense about the Gap and opportunity between the verifiable credentials and the mobile driver's license so I don't know.
Kaliya Young: So if people want to hear about that work as well.
Kaliya Young: And maybe I'll turn it over to Lucy to do that.
Kimberly Linson: Lucy are you on.
Kimberly Linson: I don't know I don't see I don't see her on so we definitely do want to hear about that work and we will get that scheduled as well that was a fantastic teaser that's what I was hoping you would give it's like it was like a movie premiere I'm like I can't wait to see that when it comes out so thank you we're really looking forward to having you come and talk about that work David I think you're on the queue.
David Chadwick: Yes thank you. Yeah, the work we’ve been doing in the last 6 months or slightly longer is working with Fraunhofer in Germany. For those of you who don’t know, Fraunhofer had an ESSIF project called Train a couple of years ago and we also had an ESSIF lab project at the same time and we worked with them to integrate Train into verifiable credentials to say how you could trust the issuer by putting a terms of use field into credentials and that allowed the issuer to say I’m a member of this trust federation and then the verifier could verify by contacting the trust federation to see if the issuer was trusted. And that was great, that was done. And then after the ESSIF project finished, we also showed how we could trust the schema that the issuer’s using and get the schema back from the trust framework to make sure that the credentials were properly issued and were well formed. And then in the last 6 months, we’ve added to Train trust in the verifier. So you might.. So why do you need trust in the verifier? Well, the analogy will be a user is on his web browser and he goes to a webpage and that webpage might be a scammer or whatever and it might be a sheep in wolf’s clothing and TLS is introduced to ensure that the user is definitely connecting to the website and the DSS owner through what’s called DV public certificate. So the analogy in the verifiable credentials case is that the user goes to some reliant party’s … verifier who says I would like to see your personal information in the shape of verifiable credentials and the user needs to be told whether this reliant party … verifier is actually trustworthy or not on his part of trust framework or if there’s some unknown entity that might abuse your personal information that you give to them. And so, that’s what we’ve been working on building that into our wallet and into the Open ID for verifiable credentials … protocol.
Kimberly Linson: Thank you that's also very exciting Lucy I think that you are on would you like to talk a little bit about the work you've been doing this year.
Lucy Yang: Hi Kimberly I am I'm just on Kaliya pulled me in so I am sorry if I missed like the earlier kind of context if you don't mind.
Kimberly Linson: Just we've been kind of having an opportunity to share what work we've been doing on doing this year and she was sharing a little bit about the vital records work that you both have been doing but she mentioned having you share a little bit about what you've been doing with the mobile driver's license.
Lucy Yang: Oh got it thank you I think that the vital records is Kaliya’s work I'm not involved in that part but I have been working with Kaliya this year just particular focusing on how we can communicate under standard work the technology work and where we are with the technology and standard and to the broader Market I think that's includes that the VC and mdl project which I believe I already kind of touched upon last last week so I'm not not intending to get too much into details but Kaliya if you don’t mind.
Lucy Yang: Sharing the link in case some of the folks here today didn't were not.
Lucy Yang: On session last week.
Lucy Yang: I think just in general like I think my work in and has been focusing on just communicating and also I think one of like the findings from our VC mdl projects as well as other project is how how to find as the technology and standards going to Market what the role I think the implementers out outside of the standard where technology core technology Community can can play and from.
Lucy Yang: Providing feedback point of view we’re more kind of working together.
Lucy Yang: To take like the standards and Beyond what what is happening in the standard groups because my understanding is that the standards are evolving and there's a process there but there's a lot of like real world problems that need to be solved that probably won't be completely in sync with standards so how how the work can be done like you know outside of standard group that can can help facilitate the use of the Technologies and standards I think that's.
Lucy Yang: Something like the big learning I mean for myself I think also for.
Lucy Yang: Like Kaliya and I for next year how we can help more kind of work there is something like we want to explore further so I hope that's that's.
Kimberly Linson: It's a great Concept in fact it really puts in my mind that you know this that the ccg really can be a place for that feedback loop to exist right we're doing incredible standards work as we talked about in the beginning and things that are are now really getting out there in the wild and there's a danger whenever that happens of like you know ending up down the road and being like well yeah that that that has always been a problem whereas if we.
Kimberly Linson: We really are starting to connect.
Kimberly Linson: That Circle we can get the feedback to the folks in this group that are doing the doing the work so thank you that was great let's see Manu.
Manu Sporny: Yeah I wanted to maybe ask folks to weigh in on incubation venues so I'm talking about things like rebooting the web of trust internet identity Workshop I think one of the other things that if I think one of the one of the other things that has changed over the past couple of years and has really changed this year is we now have so many people in.
Manu Sporny: The group that we.
Manu Sporny: Are able to sustain like good active connections with other groups where we are seeing things like what David Chadwick talked about which is you know the incubation and ESSIF lab and the coordination among parties there and then you know potentially work that's happening at rebooting and iiw incubating out there and then eventually resulting in like a work item in ccg or IETF or you know any of those those other venues.
Manu Sporny: So I don't know Joe again sorry to put.
Manu Sporny: You on the spot but could you speak a little bit to that and then maybe you know Kaliya could speak a bit to incubation at IIW.
Joe Andrieu: Sure I can speak a bit to rebooting so we ended up taking a couple years off because of covid as we travel the world are we were going to be in Argentina in Buenos Aires and that did not work out so it was this last fall in September we managed to pull the team back together and we had a workshop in The Hague had maybe 70 attendees it was pretty good turnout and I think we got.
Joe Andrieu: Some really good advancement.
Joe Andrieu: On a lot of very interesting topics I think one of the most consequential to our work here is work being done by Oliver T and Paul Bastion on figuring out how do we deal with holder binding-related use cases where people want to do certain things with VCs and it’s complicated and controversial and I was really happy that we were able to host that work we currently are not planning on having one next spring but.
Joe Andrieu: Hopefully we'll be able to pull something together for the fall.
<phil_t3> I can speak to RWOT - as a first time participant and work that has actually emerged from that with Dmitri (Zagidulin) and Golda (Velez)
Kimberly Linson: Great thank you Kaliya do you want to talk about oh actually Phil let me let me have you jump in and add your thoughts.
Phil Long: Yeah and I just wanted to say just to support what Joe is saying as a first-time participant at the rbo rebooting the web of trust Workshop I went there with Dimitri zaga Doolin and we had submitted a paper on linked claims and from that Workshop met up through three other people that were strong contributors to the work over the Intensive multi days of writing.
Phil Long: Result of all of that.
Phil Long: Has been two things one is a spin-off that describes the use of Link claims for the purposes of documenting disaster relief resources in places around the world where philanthropy provides funding to local parties to deliver services and the question is do the actual Support Services get delivered and or not a paper on that and description of it is being submitted to and will be published by the US Chamber of Commerce.
Phil Long: Foundation’s T3 Innovation Network and the second is the.
Phil Long: Actual paper itself on linked claims which uses multi base hash willing to bind independent digital objects including a credential to a credential or credential to third party objects which will be submitted in its final form in just a week or so so I just wanted to underscore the importance of that sort of incubator space as manu described it and encourage people to consider it and that even though I'm not the technologist that most of the individuals there.
Phil Long: Are -- i was warmly welcomed and was.
Phil Long: Greatly appreciative thanks.
Kimberly Linson: Thanks Phil that's great Kaliya do you want to add anything about iiw.
Kaliya Young: Sure iiw continued throughout the pandemic we had four virtual IIW's and people put their foot down and said you must go back in person and we infected this year with to in-person events in Mountain View we had new you know we we were I think our.
Kaliya Young: Our Peak attendance.
Kaliya Young: In the virtual iiw was 460 people we sold out both of the last two IIW's we had you know pushing 280 at the first one this year and we expanded it rented more of the venue and expanded attendance and we ended up at 350 this last IIw.
Kaliya Young: It felt really incredibly productive you know it's one of those things where I'm watching it all go by in the middle of it and just feels really overwhelming but I know based on the report outs and the topics that were listed a lot of productive work move forward both in the sessions and on the side of sessions I think it's one of the values of the event is people can.
Kaliya Young: Sit down and have long conversations about how to resolve things like I know there was discussions about that whatever however long the the issue thread has gotten about about context and and semantics and credentials but I think I saw people talking for hours trying to find a path through that for the community and for the work which is really heartening to see.
Kaliya Young: I also think that that the sort of pressure on the themes of iiw means the time is right to expand and support Regional communities meeting that we see iiw as a core kind of global event and you know there's people who want to connect with other SSI companies in their region and expand the work both in Europe and in apac.
Kaliya Young: That you know.
Kaliya Young: Everybody who wants to talk about SSI isn't going to get on a plane and fly to Mountain View so I think the timing is right for for what we're doing with these Regional events and.
Kaliya Young: What else can I say I mean I'm open to respond to any questions or concerns people have we're always seeking to be really responsive to the community and help me to meet its needs.
Kaliya Young: Women's breakfast was a super hit.
Kimberly Linson: Thanks Kaliya I hope I've had you know I was going to say it was an incredible the woman's breakfast was an incredible success and that group of people have sort of coalesced around some ideas and have been very communicative over the last little bit and I'm going to try to get some of those folks to be joining us here as well so okay we just have a few minutes left and so if you have.
Kimberly Linson: Been sitting in this meeting and saying.
Kimberly Linson: This is a lot of work there is a lot going on and in 2023 I really want to take a more active role well I want to take just a couple of minutes and tell you how you can do that let me see here so this is sort of the the second part of your onboarding training if you've if you've joined us recently because I know it took me a while to sort of get my head around.
Kimberly Linson: What what are we doing here.
Kimberly Linson: And so I wanted to take I've just a couple of slides to just paint a picture for you and again I'll put this link out into the community because this link here at the top will take you right to a document about the work item process but I really wanted to just highlight kind of what what is it that we do so that you could see be thinking about the work you do and how you might be able to contribute so we really do two kinds of things we do community.
Kimberly Linson: Reports and the goal of those is to sort of do something that.
Kimberly Linson: Is going to be a final report it's going to be a specification and a document that we send up to a working group it might be a note that sort of information that's helpful to that working group or we might even just create some commentary that's really just helpful for us and we never do anything else else with it but we want to have that information for the betterment of this community and then we have a number of things that are ongoing Community drafts.
Kimberly Linson: And this isn't.
Kimberly Linson: Intended to sort of be a final document but really companion pieces a conformance test Suite that kind of can go alongside of a specification or a registry which is really just a long-lived list of things that we need to be aware of that we need to know about like all the did methods having those lists I know is very helpful to me schema and having reference schemas that are out there such as the json-ld.
Kimberly Linson: Content text or some of the experimental implementations.
<phil_t3> What is the meeting schedule for CCG for the remainder of Dec? Would appreciate it if someone can share that, and or point me to the best site where that info might be found.
Kimberly Linson: That you've been hearing about for the last little bit all of those are specific work items that can be proposed and established we're going to talk about task Force's vc edu we've mentioned a couple of times they're going to be here right after the new year and so I've sort of left them them off of this for right now but I just those are sort of the key work items and.
Kimberly Linson: This is the cycle for how they go so you first step is to propose one I'd like to do X and if you've had something in your mind then that's the very first step and we want to hear about it the next step is an adoption step where as a community again more than 500 people strong we will discuss it together and decide how.
Kimberly Linson: To move forward.
Kimberly Linson: At which point it will become a draft which is really a let's make the thing like let's just get to work and put our heads down and do the thing we just said we were going to do and then we have sort of two resolutions sometimes things get archived because it just wasn't as important as maybe we thought it was initially and so we went ahead and retired it or its final it becomes a thing we pass it along you heard a number of folks talk about items that have been passed on this.
Kimberly Linson: Year and so we've contributed something to to the Greater community.
Kimberly Linson: So if you have a work item that you want to propose again the link here is here there's a few things to think about it needs a name it needs an abstract description of it it needs owners and this is often where work items I think get a little bit stuck is that you need to have two work items or two owner editors from two different organizations and that I think is hopefully something.
Kimberly Linson: In the new year that we can work on with you know we have these folks.
Kimberly Linson: Who are wanting to do this work item who else is interested in that and maybe we can have a little matchmaking and then you need to be able to answer these key questions what are you trying to do without jargon or acronyms how does it how does it happen today and what it what are the limits with what's the problem that that isn't solving and what is new in your approach and why do you think it'll be successful and how are you involving participants from multiple.
Kimberly Linson: Skill sets all over and what actions are you making.
Kimberly Linson: Taking to make this work item accessible to a non-technical audience and we can help walk you through this if you have if you have questions on that and you want to talk to one of the chairs I know all three of us would be more than happy to work through this process with you and once you've created this little template and then you can just email that link to the ccg mailing list and that will actually make it a proposed work item that we can then start to discuss.
<phil_t3> Nevermind - found the future meetings link:
Kimberly Linson: And then lastly just to kind of end off should I propose a ccg work item of course yes we definitely want work items things to consider I think are can you envision what the end result of this will be and and do you have the time I think all of the folks that you heard speak today you know you can definitely see the amount of time and energy that goes into putting this kind of work forward.
Kimberly Linson: And of course it's important to know are you going to get others on.
Kimberly Linson: Board if this is going to be sort of a solitary project that you're going to do and nobody else really has this has the same goal that you have it's going to be hard for this to get all the way through the process so that's I think something that you need to consider and then lastly of course you need to be to determine whether or not you're okay working on this and doing this under the Community contributor license agreement.
Kimberly Linson: And then lastly if you’re here.
<mprorock> mailing list! (and questions on this meeting)
Kimberly Linson: And you're like well that all sounds great but I'm not ready to to propose a work item but I do want to get more active I did it was really helpful to me as I've been working on sort of doing the research to to talk to you about the accomplishments we had this year to also sort of say okay well how would someone get active and really gitHub is a great place to to do it you can in fact the link that.
Kimberly Linson: I gave you at the very beginning with.
Kimberly Linson: The stats actually shows you every active repository and it tells you when you click on that it tells you all kinds of interesting things like who people that are involved in that and you can follow those people and connect with them and you can follow the repositories and then you can start to ask questions when you see something that doesn't make sense to you and really that will move the work forward and enable you to get started in doing that so I took more time than I wanted to do because we are just about.
Kimberly Linson: At time but I did want to just take a moment to sort of circle the wagons around what are work items.
Kimberly Linson: Be thinking over the next couple of weeks before before our next meeting is there something that's on your mind that we need to consider addressing in the new year I will take a couple more questions off the off the queue if there are any.
Kimberly Linson: I have David and Manu but I think that's from before area.
Kimberly Linson: Alright well thank you everyone happy New Year and we will see you shortly after the new year.
<harrison_tang> Happy Holidays!!
Kimberly Linson: Gregory do you have a question.
Kimberly Linson: Recording has stopped.
Kimberly Linson: All right thanks Harrison.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you I'll close up the meeting in five minutes thanks.
Harrison_Tang: Great do you have any questions for us.