Kerri Lemoie: Hello everybody Welcome to the verifiable credentials for Education task force Monday February 6th our agenda today that can open Agenda so we've asked the community to bring their topics and once we get to that part of the call will explain how you could add those topics to the queue. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: A few of the the boilerplate items first one is my P note at the w3c you must be a member to to contribute any substitute of work to the standards this isn't a standard called This is a community called but in case you are working on those standards in the agenda email that goes out and I'm the link in the chat you will see information on how to become a member. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Next call not recorded. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: We have a robot transcriber and we are also recording the audio we do have some video that is taken although we haven't really explored that as much yet but it is happening so just be aware that all of these are recorded and it's so that you can follow up but also so that others who can't make the caulk and see what's going on and learn from our conversations. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: On these calls. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Q system so we put Q Plus in the chat and left hand side of gypsies that q+ like I'm doing right now and that adds you to the queue you could remove yourself from the queue by hitting the cue - if you have a topic that you would like to talk about in you understand what that topic is you hit Q Plus and then type in your topic which you will see It'll come in handy as part of our open Agenda discussion. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Is there anybody new to the call today or anybody who's been for a while and here for a while would like to introduce themselves or reintroduce themselves so why don't you add yourself to the queue because. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Yep in the chat on the left hand side I've Just Seen just type Q Plus now we'll add you to the queue. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Would you like to introduce yourself David. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Thank you David. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Does anybody else would anybody else like to introduce themselves if that we can move on to announcements does anybody have any announcements anything they'd like to share with us before we get started on the main topic if so you could add yourself to the queue right now with the q+. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Manu you have the floor. ✪

Manu Sporny: I think scary couple of reminders the first one is the verifiable credentials working group meeting the face-to-face one is happening in Miami next week it is going to be Tuesday Wednesday Thursday if you want to attend in person it's probably a bit too late to ask but might not hurt if you still want to come you don't have to be a member of the group to attend but you do need permission from the chairs and. ✪

Manu Sporny: That we don't have a ton of outside observers it. ✪

Manu Sporny: Probably still with. ✪

Manu Sporny: The realm of possibility get in otherwise you can request to attend remotely we will we should have remote tools and probably be like a zoom thing that you connect to those meetings will be happening all day Tuesday half day Wednesday and all day Thursday with and fairly packed agenda of things to go through that's announcement one the second announcement is that. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: :Clap: ✪

Manu Sporny: With a huge thanks to this group the Edwards curve crypto sweet the Eds a Cryptid sweet was adopted last week by the verifiable credential working group I'll put a link in the chat Channel there that is the that is the crypto sweet that we used a lot of us used for the jff plugfest number two and my. ✪

Manu Sporny: Station is will continue to use it. ✪

Manu Sporny: FF plugfest 3 which we can talk about today that's it. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Hey thanks morning. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: A clear you are you have the floor please. ✪

Kaliya Young: Oh my goodness hi I just wanted to share again the APAC digital identity unconference inspired by IW happening in Bangkok Thailand March 1 March 1 is just an evening and it's two full days March 2nd and 3rd on Friday Thursday and Friday. ✪

Kaliya Young: So if you are based in that region are listening later to this call or you have colleagues in your organization's or networked in that region it's a great opportunity to connect with the communities working on to decentralize it an Indian and regular identity systems as well we purposely made it broader than just these Technologies we got the head of engineering Formosa. ✪

Kaliya Young: Yeah folks from all of many countries in Asia already signed up so it's great the I'm putting on an event called the thoughtful Biometrics Workshop which is now been condensed down to one day March 16th week making a space for academics and Industry folks and Civil Society folks to talk about those Technologies and their implications and then regular iaw is coming up April. ✪

Kaliya Young: April 18th to 20th in Mount Mountain View California. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: IIW: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/ ✪

Kaliya Young: Registrations open we're really committed to accessibilities of prices and issue please reach out to us and we'll make sure you can come and that's it thanks. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Kaliya. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: I don't see anybody else in the queue for announcements I have one big announcement as I said this out an email last week but maybe not everybody is on that list too can see this me if I we've created a public calendar. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: You and me. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: The which had for you. ✪

Kaliya Young: https://www.apacdigitalid.org/ ✪

Kaliya Young: https://www.thoughtfulbiometrics.org/ ✪

Kerri Lemoie: What we did was we published the not the topics for who's hosting every week up until I think I got we got through Labor Day so you'll see if you look at this calendar who I miss hosting which weeks which we would like to host an open Agenda. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Holidays and. ✪

Kaliya Young: https://internetidentityworkshop.com/ ✪

Kerri Lemoie: That type of stuff and and the way we hope this is useful is when you could use this calendar and add it to your so you have this call in your calendar which was most kind of hard to do before but also you could see who's hosting and if you have something you think you would like to present a topic that you're interested in and you think one of us would be the more appropriate host for that that topic you can reach out to us individually and so also know that like this isn't set in stone right these things could change. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Could be that weeks get canceled or you know our schedules. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Clash or we need to. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: In two weeks or something but this is sort of a sort of like a guidepost for the cause for the coming week. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Okay if everyone is ready to buy don't get to our main topic unless anybody has anything else and of course just put yourself in the queue if you do do it this week we decided to an open Agenda please like to try and do this monthly if possible as co-chairs we could always bring topics that we are interested in but we know that a lot of you are busy and you're working on things and you're trying to understand what's going on and you have topics that you would like to bring maybe not present a whole call but maybe you just want to talk about. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Out something that's on your mind and you know or ask questions so today is the first time. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: We're going to. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: It is open Agenda and the way we'd like to do it is if you have a topic that you would like to bring up just type I'm going to put an example in the chap do a Q Plus and then the topic so say Q Plus and I'm going to put plugfest here but press 3 because I know that's one because it came up in the email list and then we will have it in the queue and and what's great about that is if you do Q Plus and then the topic when we're doing the minutes later we'll be able to link this topics so. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Oh it's very helpful if you could do that. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Deb Everhart from credential engine I see you or in the queue. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: You have the floor. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: We can hear you sounds good Jeanne. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Thank you I did you put a link in the chat to on the back of the shirt. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: That's great I'm get. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Okay I'm glad you are in the queue again did you have something else or is this the same topic. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: You might have thank you - then that'll pull you from the queue thank you sure feels wrong you put yourself in the queue I believe score BC playground and also experience you project. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Big Field one question I have for you when you say ABC program did you mean the chappie but I. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: I just sounds great amount of the I knew you're in a queue next but you have anything any thoughts. ✪

Manu Sporny: Yes absolutely Phil Phil read my mind I was you know as Deb was you know kind of talking through credential engine and we were watching the demo I was trying to figure out like is there a way for us to hook up kind of what credential engines doing to the chappie playground or you know maybe. ✪

Manu Sporny: A broader verified. ✪

Manu Sporny: Potential playground that is definitely something that we are planning on spending some time this year doing which is basically trying to take us out of the critical path of creating these credentials and trying to make it much more open to the community we are planning on having like four years now we as in the community that VC Edge u,v the the credentials community group has has wanted this like. ✪

Manu Sporny: Examples repo and I think we're just on the cusp of enabling that and that would be just a totally open in the beginning GitHub repository that all the different companies can kind of just dump content into like verifiable credential templates and I was wondering if there's a way for us to type pull from credential engine to get stuff into that into that playground so that I mean so effectively the types of credentials that we can issue starts. ✪

Manu Sporny: Going you know exponential maybe not exponential but like you know ten. ✪

Manu Sporny: Hundreds of different types of credentials that could be issued through the playground so that when one of us in the community needs to kind of show just an example a demo flow or just wants to see if our product you know is conformant with the stuff that's out there we'd be able to do it and we'd be able to kind of work on this thing as a community so I think the desire is absolutely there we are planning on you know trying to start using like the BC examples Repository. ✪

Manu Sporny: We and credentials community group. ✪

Manu Sporny: To pull content from there and of course you know the reason we kind of want to separate that repository out is is so that other people can create their own playgrounds like maybe there is a better one for like a playground specific for like education credentials or a playground specific for like government ID credentials or playground that's specific to supply chain right so that kind of we can. ✪

Manu Sporny: Improve the amount of tooling that's available to the community to test test interoperability and kind of show demo so so yes absolutely like there's a huge desire to do that I think Jeff the plugfest to really pushed kind of our need to show that and I would imagine jff plugfest three is going to even further kind of push those capabilities so now it's a matter of kind of putting. ✪

Manu Sporny: Like putting the pieces together like credential in. ✪

Manu Sporny: And it's awesome and we want to figure out a way to pull that stuff into the playground so that we have the ability to issue a much broader set of credentials and very interested in collaborating on that I put myself on the queue for something totally different though but I can take a break and come back around to that later Carrie if. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: It's a York City Oklahoma. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: And actually before I make you feel it in my name Anthony are you in the queue to reply to this or do you have your topic for the call. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Okay thank you I might a year in the key twice do you have two topics or just one. ✪

Manu Sporny: Yes the next one is a little shorter and is a is a bit more down in the weeds but I'll try to cover it quickly so with lots of things to this community we were able to get the Edwards crypto sweet into the verifiable credentials working group and that's great the for those of you that are not familiar that Edward script or Suite is like a very modern. ✪

Manu Sporny: As bleeding edge as you can get and still get something into production with you know the community so this crypto sweet is in the newest draft of the nist standards for acceptable cryptography so the good news there is like we're ahead of the curve there in like we kind of Hit The Sweet Spot there right we got it right as nist said yes we're going to accept this but it's not built out. ✪

Manu Sporny: Tin products yet. ✪

Manu Sporny: Means that some of you that are trying to go into production with verifiable credentials in the next two years or going to have a hard time getting that deployed if for example your customer like a university or a state government or federal government requires you to do your cryptographic your cryptography in something called Hardware security module so this this is what these Hardware security modules look like they're companies like thales just how you pronounce this. ✪

Manu Sporny: Is that sell Hardware into Data Centers. ✪

Manu Sporny: Cryptography so they've got these big you know these computers 1u chassis they've got PCI cards they've got USB devices in these go through a very lengthy qualification process such that you know nation states or even universities depend on these to do their digital signatures now these things do not have EDSA built into them and they probably won't for another one to two years or so. ✪

Manu Sporny: We'll need for ecdsa as well this is another type of elliptic curve this thing has been around for like 15 plus years right so this is what governments in universities use today and this is just a heads up that we are planning on standardizing this as well through the verifiable credentials working group but people seem people have really focused on the Next Generation cutting-edge stuff and not necessarily the boring like. ✪

Manu Sporny: This is already deployed. ✪

Manu Sporny: There's just this one that we're trying to get into verifiable credentials working group The Hope is we are going to try it in the next couple of months but we are going to need like Partners to like other vendors to implement it as well it's fairly easy to implement like it's already there and done and if you've done EDSA doing ecdsa is like very very minor modifications and changes but it's work that needs to be done so I'm just giving a heads up that. ✪

Manu Sporny: You know we are looking. ✪

Manu Sporny: Companies to go yes we have government customers or yes we have University customers or state governments where we know that this is a requirement and so we want to help you know push this standard through w3c as well so that's just a heads up if you're interested in helping with that please let me know that's it. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Thank you buddy does anybody have any questions for money before we move on to the next topic. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Okay we can always Circle back if we have questions or mono we can always revisit this at a more dedicated call if we need to it sometime. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Hey Sharon you have before now. ✪

Sharon Leu: Great I am putting a slide deck I'm going to talk very very fast this is just for discussion purposes only and I will also try to share my screen screen sharing failed okay so I'm going to just talk and I'd the slides are in the chat essentially wanted to share a proposal so this is where we have talked a lot oh thank you about what it is that we could do next and. ✪

Sharon Leu: Here's where we landed and. ✪

Sharon Leu: Make sure to have a few like have share this hear your comments before we make this official so here's our approach that we are preparing and so just to review the next slide just shares our overall goal so like why does an organization like jobs for the future care about plugfest essentially our goal is to build a functional learning and employment record which means that individuals using these and Elly are through like you know all of the things in the stack including the wall. ✪

Sharon Leu: It can store multiple credentials issued by multiple issuers. ✪

Sharon Leu: Of control and choice over how they store and share their credentials and obviously that the credentials themselves demonstrate that we are able to then demonstrate some kind of utility to the credentials ecosystem like for example credentials are used for decision-making right so if you go to the next slide this is where I think we have made some really great progress our first plugfest we showed that there were many wallets actually that can display verifiable credentials and that the. ✪

Sharon Leu: Giles themselves. ✪

Sharon Leu: Student are sort of useful in being unpacked this most recent second plugfest we were able to demonstrate that actually open badges for multiple issuers could be issued to a wallet and that while it's could hold them and that issuers can issue to multiple wallet type so I think that we have made some really good progress towards the multiple issuers multiple credentials and so I think that as we were thinking about what the next step is if you look at slide 4 we heard a lot. ✪

Sharon Leu: Lot of really great ideas and the hard thing for us to do is to think about what. ✪

Sharon Leu: Right small step versus what was a giant leap right so some of the ideas that we had heard from you all and others was that presentation exchange verification by relying party while it to wallet semantic interoperability user experience were all really important and we agree that all of them were important but we needed to pick the right next one and so starting in slide 5 you'll see what is our proposal for plugfest 3 so plugfest 3 we think is the right next small step. ✪

Sharon Leu: Does in order to have the entire sort of presentation request use of the. ✪

Sharon Leu: I'm integration with applicant tracking systems or student Information Systems all of that I think we need to First focus on presentation exchange workflow so our proposed technical exercise is a verifier request a set of credentials from the holder holder selects three and this is just a number I made up could be to write relevant credentials from the wallets the holder presents to the verifier in form of verifiable presentation and then the verifier is able to verify the authenticity. ✪

Sharon Leu: City of the VP as well as the individual VCS so that's our general. ✪

Sharon Leu: And and I guess we'll just run through these really fast so inside six it's just our I think what we wanted to control is the verifiable credentials were thinking that we would provide the set of credentials to be used that we might provide some sort of standardized issue a registry and that we would go with the two protocols that really stood out from plug has to and perhaps controversial e.d. emphasize unless they. ✪

Sharon Leu: Really bring their game face game. ✪

Sharon Leu: The like sort of did comforter call stuff that we think that we still need to discuss is like what does the verifier request to look like and is there a version of a playground that we can invest in as a resource for this community and then we think the timeline will still be about 3 to 4 months of work and so if you think that this is the technical activities are scoped to be like too hard so it would take something like five months or too easy like you could do it in a weekend. ✪

Sharon Leu: That that is something that we would love feedback on as well. ✪

Sharon Leu: And then finally how we want to think about participation so again we want to emphasize the wallet functionality like users of the wallet can curate verifiable presentation and so we will focus on the presentation aspect so most of the work we anticipate will be for the wallet implementers we do want to start scoping verify or participation even though we were talking about the playground because we anticipate like the next small step after this being an integration with really verifiers so we want their feedback as. ✪

Sharon Leu: Part of this process as well obviously develop some tools that I'm very. ✪

Sharon Leu: The future who do want to participate in this verifiable credentials ecosystem could easily Implement in their own context as well as a set of reference implementations that people can take a look at to what mountain was saying earlier like if we could pull some examples it might make it easier for people to adopt so I'm going to stop talking realize this is really fast and if anyone has any questions happy to engage either now or later if there are other topics that people want to discuss. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Picture a testimony answered a question for Phil but I thought we might just talk about it out loud anyway and he says when you say verify request is this referencing the query from the verifier asking for the credential types they wish to see in the VP and it is a credential types or is it certain credentials or Zach to be figured out. ✪

Sharon Leu: I think that we were saying credential okay so the answer is yes and I think that the answer is that it's a type like it's both that it's a type of credential but because we're limiting the set of credentials it will be end up like functionally being this specific example. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: I don't see my name is are you in the queue for this topic but look I say okay go ahead. ✪

Manu Sporny: Yes just to note we are adding verification to the playground as we speak we took a risk and thought maybe plugfest 3 might have something to do with verification plus it's something that the ecosystem needs anyway so we are actively working on that right now meaning engineer's engaged writing code in testing right now I don't have an ETA on that yet but. ✪

Manu Sporny: We're hoping where you know. ✪

Manu Sporny: Away from being able to go live with that in the Hope was that we'd be able to set that up before plugfest three kicked off clearly like we have no idea if that is going to line up perfectly it's not going to line up perfectly like what you already know that but we're very willing to like adjust to make sure that it lines up and hopefully can be one of the tools that's used for verification during plugfest three the other thing that. ✪

Manu Sporny: We're actively working on is building in oid C2. ✪

Manu Sporny: Playground as well in an attempt to make it easier on everyone so we should be able to support both of these protocols through the playground and we should have verification in the playground but I can't give it a date yet because our engineering teams will probably kill me if I say the wrong date so it's on its way just as a heads up in the hopes that it helps us coordinate a bit better that's it. ✪

Sharon Leu: I think that's wonderful and I wonder if like offline we can connect about what you think the estimated timeline is and whether it actually like how much of a mismatch it is. ✪

Manu Sporny: Yep that sounds sounds good and happy to make it into a community discussion Community discussion as well so either way. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: It's great - thank you so long are you also thank you for podcaster. ✪

Sharon Leu: I think it could be any of those Phil I think I said that quickly because it was as an example I think there are definitely a ton of verifier and relying party endpoints and I think that as like as we think about the next small step after this I want to think about I'm really understanding the requirements necessary to do any number of those and so I think this will give us information that will allow us to find out more information about how that integration would work whether with an hras system. ✪

Sharon Leu: ATS system student information. ✪

Sharon Leu: Any of the other kinds of endpoints. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you Sharon and Sharon if you want we can work on a an email and you said we see I do this to keep talking about this with the community as we get ready right thank you okay don't see anything else here in the the Q about plugfest so we have about lunar 15 minutes left so Anthony the floor is yours for the remainder of the call. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: And that was an incredible update I hope we can get you back here early March to soon as you're ready to really dig into this for us because that was a lot of information and super exciting stuff that's great Phil we have you in please happen if you took yourself out okay we'll stop there but yeah that is excellent and also I just have one question just keeping an eye on time is a lot of us in the u.s. space. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: I've been talking a lot about open Badges and could you talk a little bit about. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: The alignment between those two. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Within the work you've been doing I'm sorry and with with open badges. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Excellent thank you. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Hey everybody that was great for a first try doing it open Agenda I'd like to thank all of you for all of these rich topics between a badge credentialing and crypto sweets and yeah and what's going on in Europe holy cow there's a lot of stuff thank you very much looking forward to doing this again and I'm Odin Susan I see you in the queue would you like to say something okay. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: All right then. ✪

Kerri Lemoie: Have an excellent week and I will see you again soon thank you. ✪