The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

Go Back

VC for Education Task Force

Transcript for 2023-03-06

<kerri_lemoie> Hello all - we'll get started in a few mins
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Think we are recording.
Kerri Lemoie: We'll get started here. hi everybody Welcome to the Monday March sixth version of the addition of the verifiable credentials for Education task force call today's topic is we have random we've already read for men decisions here to present their latest work and also we'll talk about we'll get start a little bit touch upon what's happening at what happened at one edtech.
Kerri Lemoie: Pick one a tech digital Summit last.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie: If I if anybody has anything to share about that so I let me go over a few few items before we get started so the first one is our our our IP notes use me anyone can participate in these calls this is a community called but if you are intended to work on any of the standards work in this community you should join and during the.
Kerri Lemoie: Immunity and.
Kerri Lemoie: The IPR agreement set.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to hit recording again see.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: It's preparing to record before it was saying all the recorders were busy.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay I think we're back now I'll just say it again that this is the verifiable credentials for Education task force call on Monday March 6th we just mentioned the IP note and that's that this is an open Community call and if you intend to do any more work and make their contributions to our standards then you should join the CCC ccg Group and I'm inside the IPR agreements this call is recorded and so.

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie: In this call is archived we do use the chat.
Kerri Lemoie: She speakers during our call and you can add yourself to the queue by typing q+ or you can click the hand in the lower part of jitsi and then we'll add you to the Q and the chat or you could hit Q minus or lower your hand using the interface and just see if you want to pull yourself out of the queue.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie: Let's start with some introductions is there anybody here who's new to the call or who's been attending and would like to say hello and tell us what they're working on.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey Mariana welcome.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Hi I'm new I see a couple of familiar names I'm with the Arizona State University and I work on is your pocket with John quo.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks for joining us.
David Mason: Hi just introducing myself Justin Mason been involved in open badges open recognition for a while and just been meaning to come here for a long time so hello.
Kerri Lemoie: Tristan great to see you here.
Kerri Lemoie: Justin if you don't mind I'm going to put you on the spot will you tell the folks a little bit about the open recognition group and I you've been working on.
David Mason: Yeah happy too so the open recognition we have an open recognition work group as part of the open skills Network and we meet every two weeks and talk about how the skills infrastructure that OS n is helping to build how we can make that more open and more inclusive and more Equitable and we've got several projects that are always in the works and everyone and every folks are welcome to join very welcome.
David Mason: So yeah.
David Mason: Share a link if I can figure out this is my first time in jitsi 2 so I can share a link if I can figure out how.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes please do get you can put it straight in the chat that would be great thank you great to see you here Ian you are next thank you.
Ian_Davidson: Hey everybody Ian Davidson from Smart resume jodieandandy greeble who's often on these calls I haven't been on this particular call and well over a year so that can back in and just wanted to say hi.
Kerri Lemoie: Great thanks nice to see you here.
<tallted_//_ted_thibodeau_(he/him)_(> (calendar says "open agenda" but it seems to be otherwise ... also, notes about "Join with Google Meet:" seem odd as we're in Jitsi-world)

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie: Hey I don't see anybody else in the queue our next topic is to do any sort of announcements and reminders I don't have anything to add here although I know that we will be making announcements about plugfest 3 soon so stay tuned for that so that is all that I have is anybody else have any announcement that's that they didn't like to make this morning or today.
Kerri Lemoie: I know there's a lot going on and a lot of conferences that are going to start happening soon so I'm sure we'll have those updates in the near future.
<justin_mason> Open Skills Workgroups / Open Recognition:

Topic: 1EdTech Digital Summit

Kerri Lemoie: Do I say what we wanted to talk a little bit about was was the one that Tech conference I we just wanted to start there and then that will lead I'm sure right into the render presentation so I was wondering if you attended the one at Tech digital Summit if you could hop on the Queue and tell us a little bit about it.
Kerri Lemoie: I know many people on this call often are at the summit I wasn't able to attend so I would love to hear more about it I'm sure others work too.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Sorry I missed the part about how to hop on the Queue but I did attend.
Kerri Lemoie: You did you can raise your hand and in the lower the or you can add q+ like this in the chat but great yeah tell us all about it how was it.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: It was good so it was my first time to attend this conference I'm relatively new to the space into the team I've only been working on pocket and in digital credentialing space since September of last year the conference was great I thought there was clearly a mean obviously the organizers talked a lot about the ob3 and still are two formats they presented the updates which to me.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: me sounded like they are moving in.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: In a solid Direction and that was a whole lot of conversation I basically felt like there were two parts to the conference one was around the whole pipeline from micro-credentialing and transitioning into employment so whether it's micro credentials in general but whether it's verified credentials or skills based hiring into employers my main out take has been that the only.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: any instance where.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Kinds or digital credential and currently Works successfully and to and leading to employment is if employers co-create or create the programs that are then being credentialed I think that that conversation is kind of a standalone conversation that so basically may or may not be facilitated by digital credentials in in the space out we all are yeah so those are kind of my main outtakes.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: it's though I saw a lot of.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Doing the work and had conversations with many colleges who are starting to transition into some sort of credentialing it currently doesn't go too far past the badging of Milestones within the course or some extracurricular co-curricular activities and then the interesting session was with apparently Arco the Board of Regents governing body Association has issued a guidance to you CL are too.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: to as the.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: Or migrating transcript into digital form and Tennessee Board of Regents has done made a big progress with they actually did make a move all their transcripts to CLR and then Arkansas also is moving in that direction.
Marianna_Milkis,_ASU_Pocket: This kind of broad Strokes I guess.
Kerri Lemoie: Hmm now this desert has some great things to know thank you very much for an appreciate that.
Kerri Lemoie: You have the floor.
Kerri Lemoie: Susan if you are speaking or not unmuted right now.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay Susan we can come back to you if he's like.
<susan_stroud> Mute issues
Kerri Lemoie: Hey anybody else was that when a tech would like to share their thoughts a David.
Dave_McCool_(Muzzy_Lane): Hi I definitely agree with all the things Mariana said I thought it was a good conference we've gone the last few years and significant growth I think in the space and especially University of participation I think was sort of for me bookended by a minus and a plus Sean Gallagher from Northeastern presented their latest research on basically is HR Tech ready for micro credentials and a pretty detailed no came out of that presentation a lot of structural and Technology barriers to.
Dave_McCool_(Muzzy_Lane): journal micro credentials.
Dave_McCool_(Muzzy_Lane): Created by companies making it all the way through to the hiring managers and hiring process so highlight a lot of challenges there but on the flipside edl Ed elects University of Dayton and University of Melbourne presented some research they did on sort of the student side and how how Learners feel about my credentials and they show that 76% of Learners feel more confident expressing their skills when they get these micro credentials so even if it's not a formal part of the hiring process they feel like they get sort of a career boost out of just getting the my credential itself.
Dave_McCool_(Muzzy_Lane): so that was a promising sign.
Kerri Lemoie: It is a promising sign by any chance do you have a link to that research.
Dave_McCool_(Muzzy_Lane): Pop it into the chat.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you I'll check that out.
Kerri Lemoie: Susan how are you how are you mute issues going oh there you are yeah that's better thank you.
Susan_Stroud: We'll see are they better okay great I think I must have said no somewhere along the line yeah so this is my first experience in the like kind of Ed Tech space moving over from Healthcare and so I found the conference to be a really nice mix of audiences so there was a great deal of Technical and even highly technical conversations there was a lot of Standards conversations a lot of product roadmaps a lot of how the different products.
Susan_Stroud: it's kind of come together think in order to create an.
Kerri Lemoie: It sounds great thank you.
Susan_Stroud: Sean that I found to be very valuable and then just The Passion of the people to really love all the different groups to try to work together to see what they can do from kind of their angle in order to advance the The Narrative and the capabilities that are being brought to bear especially as we get to the point where we can actually mix them in an end-to-end experience and actually create a full experience so it's really exciting and a lot of really great opportunity to network and meet people in these sessions as well sir.
Susan_Stroud: I really enjoyed it.
Kerri Lemoie: I am I'm fascinated to learn what will happen between this year and next year now that open badges V3 is out in CL R V2 is out and implementations are starting and we're going to start seeing some end-to-end implementations because we've already had the plugfest to demonstrate how that works I'm curious to see how next year we'll go it's interesting to hear about the panels that reflect the work that's going on.
Susan_Stroud: And Carrie if I can just you know add one more thing one of the I went to eat Denver or E th Denver right after that and it was really interesting to see as like a selling point some of the newer blockchain companies advertising as new features and new feature releases that they were incorporating verify credentials and so that kind of cross industry I guess excitement you know coming from like highly folks involved in like blockchain identity to.
Susan_Stroud: Keen eyes and the need to you know.
Susan_Stroud: Standards and incorporate some of the content that's coming through these types of working groups was really exciting to see that as a selling point is something that they wanted to announce.
Kerri Lemoie: You mean that they're using verifiable credentials like the standard verifiable credential.
Susan_Stroud: Cracked and have incorporated into like the latest version of Angus polygon it's doing like cross chain identity management and just get them up there actually there's three or four sessions that I went to really pushing verify credentials on blockchain so it was really nice to see that continuity of what work a lot of the folks on this call are doing either to drive or to advance and then seeing that cross into the Block Chain space as like selling points.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah absolutely thank you for sharing about that's that's great news thank you Susan.
Kerri Lemoie: Naomi I think I thought I saw you pop up in the Hue here.
Naomi: Are there yes I did pop up for just a second and I wanted to follow on some of the initial thoughts raised and also that David raised as well you know my main takeaway from the event is still how much opportunity we have and also work we have to do to connect the pockets of work that have really gotten going where I kind of got the sense that there's a lot of pockets of innovation and really.
Naomi: be strong.
<pl/t3_asu> It might be useful to ask Colin Reynolds to speak about EthDenver meeting at some point, as he was one of the organizers of that event.
Naomi: Application of use cases and and follow through end-to-end but that there are few roadways really connecting that work and that goes back to the broad sense of whether employers are ready to receive you know credentials outside of the examples that they themselves are directly involved with and help structure and so you know my big takeaway is for us to really think as a community on how to better Forge the connections.
Naomi: the main build out the interoperability.
Naomi: And really work together to have not just islands of digital credentials in use but really to empower the individuals to be able to you know travel the world with them.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you ma'am is a great points.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to put a link here to a an article about a report that we did at DCC got released in the summer that is about working with employers that kind of aligns with what I'm hearing you've all heard at at the I wanted to check last week.

Topic: RANDA - Marty Reed

Kerri Lemoie: Thank you all very much that was very informative and helpful next I'm going to introduce Marty Reed from RANDA Marty I believe you were also aware that Tech so maybe this is a good segue to talk about I may be your experiences and then you could tell us more about the work you're doing it Randa.
Marty Reed: Sure thanks Gary yeah and as far as the one to take conference I mean I think there's a lot more maturity across across many different parts of the of the ecosystem you know you see more players at the table with more compliant interoperable platforms and willing to work on interoperability whereas I think in the past we haven't we haven't heard a lot of.
Marty Reed: Really leaning in to.
Marty Reed: It's partially due to the work done here and they see a Jew work group as well as that aligning with the BC workgroup and and the CLR and open badge or groups so what I'm going to talk about today is kind of a rehash of what I presented at one a tech because thinking through it we have a lot of very talented technical folks on this call and I would.
Marty Reed: Feel kind of ignorant presenting technical specs to this crowd so instead what I'm going to do is again present what I presented at the one I take conference which is really the why around CL are too kind of some of the transitions between CL R1 and R2 and give you some use cases as far as how that how that plays into real-world applications and so for those of you that we're at my talk you can go ahead and take a nap or.
Marty Reed: Or you know make your something new.
<kerri_lemoie> No napping! :)
Kerri Lemoie: Yes you can see it.
<pl/t3_asu> link to slides?
Marty Reed: So I'm going to talk about why CLR to and hopefully you can see my screen yes so we did an initial implementation of CLR one and and that initial implementation is an open source project housed at ieee-sa open the open credential publisher project that was done in collaboration with with North Dakota and we learned a number of things North.
Marty Reed: Happy CG and.
Marty Reed: Actually 17 other collaborative parties that collab and is still going on now so I won't get into that but a few things that we had to had to overcome as a team one is kind of dynamic population of the CLR package so early on in the work and it was discovered that a transcript is not so this was around the K-12 transcript from the Statewide system in North Dakota and what we learned was is that that transcript does not look the same.
Marty Reed: Same for every single student and so you have to kind of create a dynamic.
Marty Reed: Mission of that of that CL r package so that it can dynamically expand and contract and that presents some limitations and how you implement that further down the road then the next piece was we actually needed to make it a verifiable credentials so this was two years ago roughly that the CLR one was signed as a JWT and and created a.
Marty Reed: Viable credential.
Marty Reed: And that partially led to the CLR to spec moving forward and aligning with ob3 work that carry Dimitri number of their parties on this call we're leaders and if I missed you aw geez but what we learned there's some pretty decent technical differences between JWT and Jacob us as far as size of credential that the signing mechanisms and then systems.
Marty Reed: Seems were not.
Marty Reed: I need someone still are not ready for a compound or stackable credential and then finally a size limitations have Network showing these early blockchain ecosystems were designed for a single assertion credential they were designed for very simple credential to be exchanged and what was produced from that transcript was not a simple credential and so it kind of helped push push on the market a bit that prompted.
Marty Reed: A sub work group in the vce you.
Marty Reed: Around a complex or compound credential to just say that yes this is a thing so the two main goals I think of kind of the movement to seal our to and ob3 was one to align the two standards to make the two standards interoperable again our open source project did this where I know B 3 can be put it in a collection that collection is.
Marty Reed: A CLR so you can create.
Marty Reed: Surgeons with CLR so if we want to go down the road of why not a verifiable presentation one is you know very well priced presentation is ephemeral than two is that you can have associations between assertions in the CLR and and that persist into consuming systems then and then secondly is make it interoperable with the verifiable credential standards so the work group you know there's a lot of.
Marty Reed: Of everybody's everywhere in these conversations.
Marty Reed: And so it was obvious that you needed to align with verifiable credential standard so now I'm going to get into just a quick rundown of three use cases of how this can actually be applied so first off is kind of the environment of student teaching so there are many internal requirements that must be met for an institution to place a student in a classroom and there's multiple exchanges and I'll show you a little bit of that then.
Marty Reed: Currently is the.
Marty Reed: So we think of a license as your driver's license or a diploma that says one thing about you that's not true in most licenses so for example one state may have three license types and then 3000 endorsements that can be placed in those licenses the other is that you could have you know 3600 different licenses each with its own.
Marty Reed: Sonne unique endorsement and then I can hold one or many.
Marty Reed: Others licenses and then finally what we're going live with later on this year is kind of connecting EVP to vacancy in school districts so direct connections typically require complex data sharing agreements unless the user is the one to Silla taking the transaction and so and so that's that's the foundation so this is a quick I'm not going to go into this but this is a quick representation of what happens in placing a student in a classroom as a.
Marty Reed: As a student teacher.
Marty Reed: And getting their license so each one of these arrows represents a point of friction and any place that you can reduce that friction speeds up the time to live connecting that student teacher into the classroom so I just show this to show those multiple parties exchanging data and each one of these can represent a verifiable credential exchange between these parties secondly is just a real world representation of a.
Marty Reed: A teaching license and the reason for this.
Marty Reed: Show folks how complex how much detail there is just in a single license and this is our description for those Mississippi Educators just for them to understand what's on the page so if you think about it you think about okay we're just kind of transition from paper to electronic format yes but in each of those implementations you have to educate the market and educate the users in how to use that the interesting thing about showing this.
Marty Reed: With Ed.
Marty Reed: They said well we want the nice pretty pretty license that we used to get and the head of the licensing department said well here's the problem with that is that paper was only as good as the day it was printed and so we added that origination to the to the physical license and then under that is a QR code that simply links to the public look up information to validate license so there's no BC in that it's simply a link kind of meeting them where.
Marty Reed: Rat today.
Marty Reed: Finally is you know what does that all lead to you well that leaves two EPS exchanging data with districts and then changing those data other data with State systems but thinking a little bit outside the box of what a credential can represent the idea of a teaching position credential that a district can you know issue not award and and allowing them to issue a not award that credential allows for us to.
Marty Reed: The relationship with a potential candidate into that position so you have a student teacher position connected with a mentor teacher credential and so all of this is a complete ecosystem of you know candidate provider licensing body employer all in all together and so and so we will be moving this forward in a couple of states with you know tens of thousands of users here in the next probably six months.
Marty Reed: It's and that'll all be.
Marty Reed: On CLR to and ob3 standard alongside the verifiable credential so what we've experienced in this kind of transition from CLR 10 B to to you know to where we are at today is really a lot of Education of the market education and when I say Market I'm not talking about the people in this room because this room already knows all this stuff what I'm talking about is the end users and why.
Marty Reed: Why they would.
Marty Reed: And ultimately it comes down to reducing friction so if any in any case where you can apply technology to reduce friction for the end user for the licensing body for the provider you have a real-world benefit that they can relate to and so then you know 20 22 24 is really adoption and implementation here's a few just kind of a couple of risks of adoption that we've seen in this one is.
Marty Reed: There's already system.
Marty Reed: Do this thing so why do we need another thing to log into in the first place and so we're talking about reducing friction you cannot add another element of a thing that I have to do even in our experience with some of these Statewide systems even having one button click is a very very contentious action in some of these systems and so you really have to make it easy and then two is I wanted to be difficult for someone to lead my ear.
Marty Reed: Ecosystem and that when we kind of overcome over a number of years.
Marty Reed: The very first arguments was I control and really own this license data why would I want to give them agency over this data and so the ultimate argument there was look we're not we're not promoting folks leading your ecosystem we're growing folks coming into your ecosystem so solving the reciprocity problem from the outside in and then a benefit of that is that it goes from inside out as well but the real pitches you know we want to allow.
Marty Reed: Ow others to come in.
Marty Reed: The military spouse use case is a big one in even military transitions back into the workforce all of that you know is a big part of that risk to but it is a very very important area to pay attention to so terms of next step is really credential has everything so the recommendation of the licensing enforcement experience position or following you know VC was early adoption of EC was around supply chain.
Marty Reed: And so and so you have to make it as frictionless.
Marty Reed: Came in the credential ecosystem making it easy so authoring see large today is difficult requires expertise and accessibility is critical for adoption we all know that but we're all trying to build on you know where the next layers of accessibility are and making authoring easy as critical to that and then continuing the education so as many times as I tell the same story over and over again over the past three four five six 12 years.
Marty Reed: You still have to tell that story again and again and again.
Marty Reed: And again and so and so that's where we kind of continue that education of the overall Market.
Marty Reed: So that's just kind of my quick rundown again this is not a how more of a why but I will I think I dropped it links for both of the standards and the implementation guides and chat and happy to take questions I see Phil along in the issue.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes before I before we call on film ready thank you for that what is could use would you mind sharing a link to your slides at some point during the call so we have those in the chat.
Marty Reed: I cannot share those because they have some proprietary information on them but I can strip down a version without the screenshots and share that so I can do that.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that would be fine something like that would be great thank you okay thanks I'm going to call an alcohol and fill and then I'll come back Phil Long.
PL/T3_ASU: Yes thank you can you hear me okay great thanks Marty that was a really helpful presentation summarizing some really terrific work you and your colleagues have been doing and I was intrigued by the discussion at the end about the adoption barriers and you made the observation of sort of looking at the adoption from those concerned about giving away control of their data.
PL/T3_ASU: Mentioning that it was looking at it from the inside out and and adding less friction for people to enter the system as a as a sort of counterbalance to the concerns that the loss of potential giving away of ownership or control of the data might be concerned considered as threatening to that group can you elaborate a little bit more on that in terms of what do you mean by bringing more people into the system and and and how.
PL/T3_ASU: that might have mitigated.
PL/T3_ASU: Concern over an agency that they seem to be concerned about losing.
Marty Reed: So it's it's very kind of so there's a there's a huge teacher vacancy challenge throughout you know the United States and generally over throughout the world but and so out-of-state licenses for teachers when everything you bring those in from other states there are reciprocity agreements and there's even a interstate compact agreement that's it.
Marty Reed: Is being worked on right now with.
Marty Reed: But net-net the out-of-state teaching license doesn't always get you a license in that new state and it takes about three to six months to get that out of state license converted to an in-state license and so you hear folks talk on the Council of state governments call where a military spouse she has five licenses in five states because it's easier to keep them than it is to get them to get a new one and so and so it's really about reducing the friction.
Marty Reed: For those out of state license holders to be.
Marty Reed: In that state and so when I talk about folks owning the data I'm talking about the state's I'm not talking about individuals so much and so reducing the friction to get out of state licenses out of state licensed individuals license in that state is is a critical value in reducing that friction of you know three to six months of do we accept this license do we accept the endorsements on this license do these endorsements map to our course codes you know when in reality the.
Marty Reed: The component parts.
Marty Reed: A license are typically actually reciprocal so.
PL/T3_ASU: Thank you Marty that's helpful I'm just a curious quick follow-up do you think this is unique in the sense that there is such a high demand at the moment given the the difficulty in attracting candidates and teacher education as well as many other jobs that it's a somewhat inopportune time in a number of domains teacher education being one of them for that argument to be made.
Marty Reed: So another great another great use case actually was presented to me and I didn't even think about it but I was speaking with Andrew Fisher who I know a number of folks on the call know and he's actually doing some work in the towing industry so it's a not it's not a licensed not a licensed industry but it's highly regulated and so he has found a space in the towing industry where credentialing the drivers allows those.
Marty Reed: Towing companies to reduce.
<pl/t3_asu> LOL - meeting with Andrew tomorrow!
Marty Reed: There's liability and reduce and ultimately reduce their insurance costs so I believe that there's actually a tremendous amount license and unlicensed articles that have an opportunity to leverage these types of you know strategies to reduce friction in their industry and that ultimately produces dollars in his case real dollars for those towing companies to to reduce their Insurance liability and cost.
Marty Reed: Are you hear all about it.
PL/T3_ASU: Ironically I'm meeting with Andrew tomorrow and that's all they're all about it so thank you for the heads up so I can be more intelligent when the conversation starts great job great job Marty.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks feeling Marty my day I put myself in the queue because even though many people on this call like have heard a lot about open Badges and CLR I might it's my understanding that a lot of people don't understand the differences between the two so wonder if we could like backup other the beginning of your presentation and if you wouldn't mind sort of unpacking that a little bit and explaining the difference and the similarity is now that the models are more aligned than they were before.
Kerri Lemoie: For previous versions.
Marty Reed: Sure and and again I feel really silly talking about this whenever a carry the boys on this call but but I'll go ahead and share that you know.
Kerri Lemoie: Wait before you do let me just say that Marty was a has been the co-chair of the CLR and really has been very important to make sure that all of this work is aligned so this is why I want him to explain it thanks Marty.
Marty Reed: Yeah thank you so so the company well let's just start with open badge so open badge is really a single assertion it aligns very well with the BC here you see kind of the graphic and again these are in the chat but you have a single assertion by an issuer about a subject with a proof and that can contain you know achievement results evidence recipient of that assertion.
Marty Reed: Any alignments maybe like four.
Marty Reed: It's in the CTV CTV alignments and description so then the CLR is actually just a wrapper around that type of assertion and so you have the CLR that can have one or many assertions embedded in it each one of those assertions is a VC itself so you have you know VC with the feces in it now.
Marty Reed: I will admit.
Marty Reed: You know say that some of this is not as elegant as some of the presentations that we've seen in this work group as far as a multi assertion BC credential at the time this was the this was the most this was the frictionless least friction to get to a VC alignment so it is a VC would be seized in it and I did mention you know why is this not why is this.
Marty Reed: CL are not a VP it.
Marty Reed: Because we peace do not are ephemeral and do not persist now they could in the future it may change and we're open to that discussion but today this is this is a case so the other piece that neither none of those components host or manage is the associations between those assertions so you have a parent-child relationship available.
Marty Reed: In the.
Marty Reed: CLR spec which is very important whenever you look at again the license that I mentioned where you have multiple endorsements associated with that license that's going to be really a multi multiple assertions because those endorsements are used in relation to that license and external to that license that they're going to be reused as a relationship between a single course code for example the other you know another piece around clrs you can have multiple signers.
Marty Reed: And so in the in the.
Marty Reed: Selves they can be signed by another party that the VC is not signed so if you think about self self signed credentials this gives you the opportunity to do that IE I packaged up these credentials signed by these other parties and I have signed this as a verifiable credential so so that a very very high level that's kind of how they how they relate and really kind of moving open badge out of that just strictly.
Marty Reed: Lee micro credential frame.
<pl/t3_asu> VP's persisting is unlikely in the VCDM v2. The VPs value is in the negotiated stacking of a set of VCs to be transported to an end point.
Marty Reed: Work into a general assertion so you could do a license it was just a simple very simple license you can do a license as a badge as open badge sorry no I don't skip that so so there are opportunities now to kind of remove some of the micro credential nomenclature around open Badges and simply make it a assertion of a credential.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah thanks Mary thanks for for aligning that a bit for us.
Kerri Lemoie: How are you going to go on am I interrupting you sorry.
Marty Reed: Nope nope that was I was kind of sound light I know everybody can can read so your specifications are out there and you know happy to entertain any other experts that were in the room and the development of that you know again I see names like Dimitri and David Ward that were deep in this work as well so if there's anything that you guys think I'm should speak up.
Kerri Lemoie: X-ray yeah I mean does anybody have any questions about about this topic about the CLR and I'm about open badges you know how they can work together and you know what Marty just described because I think my imagine is that some people are trying to figure out you know what which one they should use.
Kerri Lemoie: And I mean it's a good.
Marty Reed: Yep that is a question I agree and it's difficult I think today right now to make that decision easily so I agree with you this kind of Hope Phil.
PL/T3_ASU: Yeah I got your I just asking I guess for some Recollections about the complexity of the alignments that clrs can see lrv tutors can contain and anything that that in your experience working with them is there anything that would help I mean it seems like one of those Arcane spaces that.
PL/T3_ASU: our spend years.
PL/T3_ASU: Don't understand themselves and and since they are alignments often that are representing rulesets about what combinations of course is for a major for example are necessary and some of it is in terms of precedents and sequence and some of it is in terms of other other areas is there some anything from your extensive work in this space that might help people when they interpret or try to interpret.
PL/T3_ASU: Burt building these alignments.
Marty Reed: That is a is a deep that is a deep subject so I will say you know one is there's two there's two expressions one is an alignment which is kind of a Target framework if you will you know like CDL or case server or something to that effect and then there's associations and that Association gives you kind of that parent-child relationship.
PL/T3_ASU: Yeah I may have been conflating the two and in and confusing ways when I was.
Marty Reed: But I think it is actually a line pretty well with what the current the current constraints are in the marketplace so you have the idea of Pathways those Pathways have relationships in between individual credentials and so in order to actually assert that that pathway in the right way you do need associations between between those credentials and it's easier to kind of.
Marty Reed: Inspect or interrogate those credentials with those associations in place.
<pl/t3_asu> do degree audit tools help here?
Marty Reed: Sharon I'm scared.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> one straightforward way to think about using the alignments is to align/link to more complex context than what can/should be included in the VC
Sharon Leu: Hey Marty I just have a question about how hard is it to make the transition to CLR to we heard earlier that a lot of announcements are being made about how CLR is becoming the standard for transcripts I'm curious like whether that conversation has started or whether people are just going to onboard themselves in to CLR V1 and then eventually make the transition over.
Marty Reed: Yeah so great great question Sharon I mean I would just give you kind of our use case so we were we were discussing like how to you know kind of architect the CLR to from scratch you know as far as producing a CLR to but you know with a few modifications to naming conventions.
Marty Reed: We have a signing service that converts it to seal our to and it doesn't necessarily convert it as much as it just signs it as a verifiable credential and assigns each assertion is a verifiable credential and that that is a lot easier to to do so you can with with a little bit of you know machination converts tlr-1 pretty directly to CLR to.
Marty Reed: And that signing service maybe an open-source signing service here in a few months.
Kerri Lemoie: That would be so helpful Marty thank you.
Marty Reed: Answered all the questions.
<pl/t3_asu> has there been any pushback on the signing of individual OBv3s as courses in the CLRv2?
Kerri Lemoie: I don't see any other questions in the queue but we have a little bit of time you've so far I've answered all of the questions for he did an excellent job but I'll give folks like you know another minute here to see if there's anything else you can think of these like to ask Marty at this time.
Kerri Lemoie: A going forward I'm sure we're going to be talking about more of these standards over the over the course of the year and you would more because now we're heading into implementations and and really really interesting to see what what comes out of this.
Marty Reed: Yeah I think it's a really exciting time and just kind of from a global statement standpoint how far the market has come in the past year you know I think it's I think it's equivalent to the previous five years and I think we're on Pace to do that again for my particular crystal ball which is cloudy most of the time but the next 12 months I think will have the same velocity if not more.
Marty Reed: Just do to to you know plugfest real collaborations here.
Kerri Lemoie: I think that's right actually I think like this year and maybe next year will be more implementations may be more platforms transitioning to the newer standards and then I think we might start scaling these that's what I'm aiming for is to try and get as many people interested as possible and see what those use cases are and then we start you know scaling from there and yeah I think you're right it's been moving a lot faster lately.
Marty Reed: Yeah and and and you know again we'll be implementing at least two to scale implementations there's a link to the.
Marty Reed: Non-proprietary slides and the chat yeah I think I think there will be you know at least two I know I know for others that are pretty well on their way so.
Marty Reed: Thanks for the opportunity.
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you thanks for joining us today we're telling us about your work and CLR everybody else so yeah sure of course anybody else you have everybody else I'm sorry I have a great week and I will see you next Monday thanks Al.
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thanks for this great work!
<dave_mccool_(muzzy_lane)> Thanks!
<justin_mason> Thanks!
<susan_stroud> Thank you