The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

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VC API Task Force

Transcript for 2023-03-28

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Manu Sporny: Right welcome everyone this is the verifiable credential API call this is Tuesday March 28th our agenda is here on the agenda today is some Community updates from ITF and then issue processing we got through our long-term issues last time so.
Manu Sporny: In all pull requests.
Manu Sporny: So we won't be doing pull request processing today on the agenda is Discovery discoverability features for the API an issue that says why do we believe it's a good idea to return an issued credential to an internal caller which is turned into a different discussion so we need to process that and that question really has to do with odd Z4 endpoints and whether or not endpoints need Otzi and.
Manu Sporny: Even that we have a first cut of both of those.
Manu Sporny: In the in the spec now in theory we should be able to address issues 48 and 279 but we'll see how the conversation goes today are there any other updates or changes to the agenda anything else that we would like to discuss today.
John Henderson: I am not sure if it's an agenda point or a community update but I've just a brief update about the owf presentation.
Manu Sporny: Let's start off with that.

Topic: Relevant Community Updates

John Henderson: Okay so I have maybe watching maybe just a quick Preamble so as I've mentioned for the past couple weeks I'm hoping to do a presentation about VC API to the open world Foundation the open world Foundation is a group that's building wallet components implementations that are building standards and I think that the VC API would be a good standard for them to have an implementation of.
John Henderson: So the first step they released their proposal process and the first step is to present to propose a project to them and to present the the overview first in their Tech architecture Community beating so I've been repairing presentation and.
Manu Sporny: Yes please yes that'd be great.
John Henderson: Wondering it could I take if you one minute to share the presentation just okay I will quickly show my screen.
John Henderson: Said hopefully really is just one minute and.
John Henderson: I mean I'm just comes up.
Manu Sporny: Yep can see it.
John Henderson: Right so this is a work in progress but I thought just quickly going through it to see if I'm on the right track would be good so I think previously I'd mention this high can be documented with the outline and it is essentially the same so I now have slides representing that the preface some background on these API use cases that objectives some goals architecture authorization and then.
John Henderson: Been going through the different endpoints.
John Henderson: About that sweetie.
Patrick_(IDLab): Could you go a bit slower.
John Henderson: Yeah I'm not sure I it's a lot so what I'm yeah so I'll just finish quick very quickly going through test Suites implementation and I'm thinking of doing a demo at the end yeah I'm glad to take it in slower indeed but I don't take too much time from this meeting so I may be.
John Henderson: If there's it was.
John Henderson: Glad to talk about him or answer any questions or go through it in more detail and maybe maybe going more detailed in another meeting as well.
<pl/t3-asu> How about a comment-able version of the slide deck?
Manu Sporny: Yeah I mean this is this is great so first of all thank you very much John for putting this together it's that's great structure looks really good to me I we should definitely take some time on this call to go through it in detail I'm wondering if after you get a little more added you know to the the or you feel like it's in a state where you want to present it or feel like it's a solid white.
Manu Sporny: Like first.
Manu Sporny: Do you have.
Manu Sporny: Hang in there.
Manu Sporny: You want maybe we can take you know 30 minutes in a call and you do go run through the presentation with us and we can provide feedback would that be like helpful.
John Henderson: That sounds great.
Manu Sporny: Okay so let's schedule that for next week does that does that work for you or do you want a little more time.
John Henderson: I should be okay if it doesn't I'll let you know thanks.
Manu Sporny: Okay alright in no big deal if not and if I forget to put it on the agenda we can just replace the agenda with this this thing with with the presentation and talking through it because it is important to communicate this to owf.
John Henderson: Okay thank you.
Manu Sporny: Great thanks again a John that's great stuff Patrick did you did the that address your question concern.
Patrick_(IDLab): Yeah that's fine it's just I was interested but I think that the form looks nice but I was interested to see a bit more in detail the points but we can see take time to discuss in depth next week differently.
Manu Sporny: Okay sounds good John was there I think you had there was just an open invitation to come and present and no date set right is that correct.
John Henderson: Yeah that's right they at the owf you mean.
Manu Sporny: Yes yep that's right yep.
John Henderson: Yeah there's no date set they are looking for people to do present on the Monday meeting so there's this plenty of slots available at going away anyways.
Patrick_(IDLab): Yeah it did you have John and idea of like what other type of presentations are made like what other projects because I'm assuming the way you are applying other people or applied to the presentation you know like the type of presentation are being made.
John Henderson: Are you all the meetings for the open world Foundation have been recorded so I can find the link here I'll put it in the chat.
Manu Sporny: Great thanks John let's see Community updates the so ietf 116 is going on right now and I had two things to present their one of them was a multi-format so let me go ahead and share screen.
Manu Sporny: Um so I presented multi-format switcher which we use in verifiable credentials and a variety of places and use and did so in a variety of places so like did key is using the multi base format in the multi key format we are looking into we meaning the community in general is looking at ways of cryptographically linking between verifiable credentials like if you want to say you know.
Manu Sporny: This credential using this SVG image in here's a sha-2 256-bit hash for that image so that you can digitally sign over it and know that you're pulling in cryptographically signed resources like a SVG file to do the rendering so multi multi hash can come in to play there so we were we presented this to dispatched it's a group of people so like.
Manu Sporny: I think it's something like.
<manu_sporny> Dispatch IETF 116 outcomes for Multiformats:
Manu Sporny: Commanders signed the letter of implementers and users of the technology signed a letter of like request to ITF to adopt the technology the dispatch outcome is here for mole he formats so the proposal was to effectively and let me put this link in here as well.
Manu Sporny: If we were 16 multi-format slide presentation so the proposal was to for the ITF to adopt and find a home for multi base and multi hash the dispatch outcome was that ITF found the work useful they proposed two ways for us to do the work this work has been incubated in the.
Manu Sporny: Is community group for years now.
Manu Sporny: And so they suggested either we can have a little mini working group at ITF to move the work forward or we can go straight to I see which is basically an independent submission stream where you don't change anything you just publish the document it's informational and it's out there with the you know as solids RFC assigned to it number assigned to it it looks like we're probably going to go the meaning working group route because they.
Manu Sporny: Is that it would be a fast turnaround in.
Manu Sporny: Effectively as fast as having the work 80 sponsored so they're going to experiment on us a bit but the worst that's probably going to happen is that it takes a little longer to get the RFC then if we went the other route.
Manu Sporny: And that's it so that's a really good outcome like that's that's positive there was quite a bit of grumbling about the design of multi formats and all that kind of stuff but that's always to be expected at ITF when you expose them to anything new go ahead Patrick.
Patrick_(IDLab): Does this have to do with the visual representation of verifiable credential or did I get this wrong.
Manu Sporny: Sorry let me let me it is tangentially related to that we would use a multi hash to point to what the visual rendering representation would be or you would use a multi hash to point to another verifiable credential from within a verifiable credential let me give you an example here like this is multi base in the multi-format here is.
Manu Sporny: The letter U which says that the rest of this string is a base64 URL encoded string with no padding so that's what this letter U does so it's a tiny little header that goes on data and then the rest of the data so this is Hello World in coded as base64 URL with no padding you put a little you in the front of it and this whole thing is a multi base value so did key.
Manu Sporny: Is a.
Manu Sporny: The Z means this values-based 64 sorry base 58 Bitcoin encoded go ahead Dave.
Dave Longley: Yeah for anyone not familiar with multi formats they are all about having values that are self describing so if you get a string or a byte array in you can look at that thing and determine what it represents so if you're getting a string you can look at the beginning of the string and there's a header that the tells you how the data is encoded and so base encoded means you converted a byte array into someone some characters so you could represent.
Dave Longley: Isn't it as a string by looking at the first.
Dave Longley: You can determine what the base is and then you can you remove the encoding to get a byte array then the byte array itself is self describing in a my talk about how the byte array represents a hash with a certain algorithm or it might represent a public key or private key or maybe a digital signature or something like that and so what's key here is this is for having these simple opaque values that you can put in other places.
Dave Longley: That are self-describing.
Patrick_(IDLab): And how do you is there a way to know that the value you get has this sort of multi and coded miniheader or.
Dave Longley: So that would be based on whatever spec you're using so if you're using like the did key spec it would say the value you're getting is a it's a multi-format value and so when you get that in you can you parse like a did key URL the value so that the scheme is did the did method is key and then the value of that is a multi-format value.
Dave Longley: And so you can use all the.
Dave Longley: All of them.
Dave Longley: The format libraries and self describing Header information to determine what follows.
Patrick_(IDLab): Okay so like the prove value from what you are showing here like the Z would represent whatever it is that represents okay.
Dave Longley: Yes the Z or Zed for Canadians and people people from it from the the British other British places the Z represents indicates that the value there is a base 58 encoded by the right so if you use a base 58 decoder you can decode the value starting at 4:00 so Z's the header.
Patrick_(IDLab): That's why I always had a hard time decoding.
Dave Longley: Yeah so yeah so base 58 is an encoding mechanism that's different from base64 based 58 is used because it removes some letters that can be commonly misunderstood confused with others like L and one can be easily confused depending on the font that's being used and by removing those you can avoid some put potential problems which is a very important when you're dealing with cryptography or financial data things like that.
Patrick_(IDLab): Wow this was okay it's very glad to get to know this though.
Dave Longley: Yeah so other letters removed are like zeros and in the letter O since those things can be confused that those get taken out and that's why you have a lower number at 58 is that a 64.
Patrick_(IDLab): Pinterest thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Thanks can you hear me okay.
Manu Sporny: You might be the yep yes yes.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Okay so I want to tell you things to what they said about how do you tell that something is in will be formatted so as Dave mentioned hopefully you'll know by the Sun so you I always know that when dealing with the dookie always going to be encoded and I can proceed from there if you're writing some sort of command line tool or something else where you parsing values that could be multi formats and.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Could be something in something else that's also a fairly.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Raishin and there the thing to do is just to try to code it so I've pretty clearly written code that's like okay does the string start with a Z all right there's a good chance that it's multi-format go ahead and pass it off to the multi-format the code if that throws an error okay then it's not then proceed down from other round but if it goes there's a very high probability that that's what it was intended and so on so I just wanted to add that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: At that notion there thanks.
Manu Sporny: Great thanks to me tree so yeah basically if you're using VC API and you using dead key you are definitely using multi base in multi key and so that's why you know it's a relevance to this group is that this stuff this tiny little building block you know made it into ITF and now we have to Shepherd it through the process Dave.
Dave Longley: Yeah just wanted to bring this back to Patrick's original question because he asked about how does this related to like a display or rendering hint and BC and the way that it's related is in just expressing a hash value so a rendering hint could reference a like a template or a URL for like an SVG just like some other link inside of a VC or any other document your if you're pointing to an external URL that has some content there you might want to include.
Dave Longley: A hash of that content in your data so that when someone goes and fetches it later.
Dave Longley: That it's the same thing that wasn't that it was intended to be that it hasn't changed and a way to represent a hash in a single string in a nice simple opaque value is through multi formats.
Manu Sporny: 10 So that's what's being shown on the screen here is an example of like your verifiable credentials linking to some kind of rendering template that's got the SVG itself but associated with it is a digest multi base value which is a Shaw so this will have a header for how its base encoded and it will also have a header for the type of hash it is like sha-2 256-bit so the first couple of characters here tells you that.
Manu Sporny: At this is a.
Manu Sporny: Things so you're going to end up downloading this doing a sha-256 on it and the value should match and then this thing this whole thing here is digitally signed over as an example.
Dave Longley: Yeah just real quick I want to make one other really important point is that multi formats takes a different approach from some other more broken out formats where they would include individual component information in the Json so you might imagine some Jason that would say like hash algorithm and then the value sha-256 and maybe some other components we might imagine a jwk that has different components cryptographic components of a key laid out in the Jason and.
Dave Longley: For mistakes a totally different approach which is separation of of inference.
Dave Longley: Nation so that these values are just opaque blobs in the Jason because at the Jason layer you shouldn't be doing anything with this data and then helps you avoid having to do extra validation comparing the different components you know do these match up is this even right now I've got to have extra Json schema and extra checks to make sure that what I'm doing at the crypto layer is right at the data modeling layer this avoids all of that by just dropping an opaque value into these places and you pass that off to the Crypt.
Dave Longley: A layer and just let that thing do all the validation and everything that it needs to do so it's a cleaner separation of layers.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Patrick and then after that we're going to move move on probably.
Patrick_(IDLab): Yeah yeah thank you very much so my part 2 of my question if it was for visual representation was I hear a lot about Ossie a layer for like mobile wallets does this have anything to do with this at all or maybe maybe not or.
Patrick_(IDLab): perfect thanks.
Manu Sporny: No I mean I've heard of the OCA stuff and I have you know read at some point read through you know the Docks but it feels quite more complex and it's more it's quite a bit more complex than just like this thing right he's got many many aspects to it but the same you could see it in the same category of solution certainly.
Patrick_(IDLab): Maybe eventually it'll be a link to be made though.
Manu Sporny: Yep yep yep okay anyway that's that's why it was brought up we use multi base and multi digest and or really is multi formats quite a bit in verifiable credentials and the data sent to and received from the BC API uses multi formats quite heavily all right that's it for that.
Manu Sporny: That was good news and that's it for Community updates any any other community updates before we jump into topics.
<pl/t3-asu> As long as what the multibase hashlink points to is a stable address, you can use it to link to any digital object, docx, pdf, mp3, ... you name it.
Manu Sporny: Okay one more reminder that we have a con of issues that are marked ready for PR in fact we have 29 things 29 changes to the specification that could be made if someone were to pick up one of these PR so this is just a request to the community if you have some spare time in can spend you know maybe an hour writing a PR there a lot of PR es hear that.
Manu Sporny: You might be able to pick from in.

Topic: API lacks required discoverability features

Manu Sporny: Update the spec on okay so in fact we could cut the number of issues we have in half if we if we did PRS for all the ready for PR items which is which is good just we're making progress we're just not making that that applying that to the text in the spec just yet we'll get there okay next item up API lacks required discoverability features this.
Manu Sporny: This was raised.
Manu Sporny: A Mike Varley and actually sorry no this was raised by Ori and I think Mike Varley put in a PR to add this and I think we think I thought we had this in the spec let me check to make sure.
Manu Sporny: Disc of yeah I exchange Discovery so we have this concept apologies the things looks broken the.
Manu Sporny: Yeah it's the renderings broken right now need to fix that but we do have exchange Discovery in there right now.
Manu Sporny: However for this item the last time we discussed this was last April.
Manu Sporny: A question on whether or not we should close this the there were three concrete proposals made by or E1 the API uses OS 30 and Define security schemes we have done that in that has been merged so we've addressed that item that the API is use I can use a link header for sweet and issuer ID discovery.
Manu Sporny: We have not.
Manu Sporny: Gus that and then the apis can use a well-known Jason resource for conveying supported issuer IDs and sweets so we kind of talked about that but did not really get to the bottom of that so there's a decent bit of discussion that went on here but not much as Ben.
Manu Sporny: Word as far as discussions concerned so in order to close this issue we would probably need to address these questions and these proposals so if folks are okay with structuring the discussion in that way to determine whether or not we can close this or not we could go ahead and start.
Dave Longley: I'm sure I'm fine with structuring it that way I would say proposals to in 3 given what we have learned and now added in issues and plan to add to the spec around configurations and instances I don't think it makes any sense to do proposal two and three because there's not a use case I can think of where a client would discover it some.
Dave Longley: Some existing issue.
Dave Longley: Action and then decide to use it.
Dave Longley: Instead it would be the case that an instance configuration would be created and given to a client.
Dave Longley: There's not I can't think of a use case that it makes sense that a client would come along make a request to some issuing service it would list out all of its configurations in the client would pick one of these in the Klein would hope to find a configure would even hope to find a configuration that they could use like that on top of it I don't see any reason why the client would.
Dave Longley: Even have the authorization to use.
Dave Longley: And sis and it seems like it would violate minimizing authorization to those you know limiting authorization to those parties that should be able to use a particular configuration.
Dave Longley: Yeah that's right.
Manu Sporny: So your suggestion is we've addressed proposal one we've done proposal one in two and three don't make any more sense because the because of the consensus we have on the instances and how these things are configured okay go ahead Patrick.
Patrick_(IDLab): So in the spec currently at least a discovery Under The Exchange and point if I understand and when I was doing a while ago I was doing a sort of a cup I VC API coordinator project when I was trying to learn about the Visa API and IMAP The Exchange and point to discover feature and point.
Patrick_(IDLab): on the iCup I.
Patrick_(IDLab): Returns you a list of all the Dead Calm protocols that are supported by the agent is that the idea here is to sort of return a list of all the exchange that you can engage with all the types of exchange that you can engage with so like issue credential present proof or whatever else exchange are defined is that kind of the idea of discovery.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead babe.
Dave Longley: I'm so that might have been what at least a piece of that might be part of what exchange Discovery could have been about but I don't think that that's this issue I think unfortunately this issue says it does it just says API lacks required discoverability features but I think it's really talking about issuer Discovery and I don't think issuer Discovery makes sense but it might make sense.
Dave Longley: Since for.
Dave Longley: A client to be able to figure out if an exchange what protocols in exchange supports for delivery of BC's.
Dave Longley: But I think maybe that's a different issue.
Joe Andrieu: Hi yeah I want to support what day is presented but I also want to highlight I'm not sure that's going to address their concerns like I think they want Discovery in a manner that I don't like so I'm really happy with sort of Dave's approach I think it's more secure I think it's not advertising all the ways that you might attack a particular server for people who maybe don't have authorization to use those services but I think there is a.
Joe Andrieu: Option to get back to my can Dory and say.
Joe Andrieu: Is there a use case that's important here let's get it in the conversation.
Joe Andrieu: It's a yes even though Dave and I are going to find a use case for it.
Manu Sporny: Um was first Patrick you're up.
Patrick_(IDLab): That's the first thing I would say if the title said APA likes required this Kirby feature for me that probably tells me there was some kind of use case in mind when this been written my second point was so you said I don't think it's a good idea because it would allow people to do some sort of exploit some sort of vulnerability doesn't that statement imply that.
Patrick_(IDLab): this is sort of a security.
Patrick_(IDLab): Obscurity approached by not allowing people to discover what is there which I'm not a big fan of the security by obscurity approach and the system I think making.
Patrick_(IDLab): Formation public sort of forces you to be accountable for your solution and too.
Patrick_(IDLab): Have a good implementation but maybe I misinterpreted what's been said.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Dave.
Dave Longley: Yes I think this issue is filed prior to us spelling out how to do instances and configurations to resolve the issues we had with the previous design that was built around implementing to a test Suite instead of real use cases or real applications and the instance once we introduced instances and configurations I think it became clear that it doesn't make sense to have this kind of discovery.
Patrick_(IDLab): Something's going on.
Dave Longley: Someone needs to mute.
Dave Longley: Not sure who but.
Dave Longley: The the previous design was was such that you know you could you would have like a single endpoint and you could ask what issuers you could issue from and you know what sweets you supported and that that idea is kind of like any client could come along presumably with the client would at least have to have permission to use the the service but I guess it would have permission to use the service generally to do.
Dave Longley: Do anything with the service and it.
Dave Longley: Use any endpoint any issue or it can issue any credential from any issuer using any sweet that the system supported and you would have to give it alter ization to be able to do all those things to be able to use this feature as described and the new system doesn't do security through obscurity but rather there are different issuer configurations and if you want to use one of those you get permission to use that particular one and you would know which one.
Dave Longley: When you're in order for a client to get this permission to do anything.
Dave Longley: Um it would need to know which one of these it's hitting and it would request permission to use that or it would be be assigned permission to use that by handing it either a an object capability to hit that particular resource or you would hand it a wall to token to hit that particular resource with a scope and audience pinned to that resource.
Manu Sporny: All right so I'll go ahead Patrick I think I don't know if you're on the cue still or.
Patrick_(IDLab): Yeah maybe just add a comment around so when we say you have a different instance for sorry I'm getting feedback from somewhere thank you so we say that there's a different and stands for implementation how does that compare to a sort of multi-tenancy model if I think like I kept I can have one eye Kappa.
Patrick_(IDLab): agent that.
Patrick_(IDLab): Multi-tenancy for different organizations so I could have multiple issuer based on the same agent and each issuer would control their old wallet but here we have this is sort of separate so we have really the full and stands for each issuer or is there a concept of multi-tenancy that we are describing here.
Dave Longley: Well Allen's on the Cuba for me.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Dave oh my bad go ahead Alan.
Alan Karp: Yeah so we had this probably speak where any things you want anybody be able to discover them for other things we knowing something exists gives you a point of attack and so and so we saw that by having a note place where you could go and get a capability that would let you search perch for things that things that we want any random person to be able to find.
Alan Karp: So you know.
Alan Karp: The boat The Best of Both Worlds on Stevens assistant anybody can hit will return services that were available and or with some authentic when dickon can we can return a qulity that you search for things that you'd prefer to be hit.
Manu Sporny: Great thank you Ellen Dave you're up next.
Dave Longley: Right so I was going to respond to Patrick multi-tenancy the individual instances so an implementation can have many different instances and that should cover multi-tenancy so any given implementation could expose n many issuers each one having its own credentials / issue endpoint that hangs off of the end of.
Dave Longley: So that might have been where the confusion was it's not that a single implementation only exposes one endpoint it exposes as many as senses as it wants each instance has its own credential issue in some point.
Manu Sporny: All right um okay so going back too.
Manu Sporny: Going back to this stuff here let's start I want to start focusing on each question so.
Manu Sporny: How does an API know what's how does a client know which sweets an API supports.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Patrick.
Patrick_(IDLab): I'm just going to throw what I understand from the discussion so how does he know what certain types of support is because the endpoint that's going to be given to it the client is going to explicitly Define this and it's sort of expected that when a client receive an end point to an API it already knows what configuration this endpoint is given to it.
Patrick_(IDLab): based on the.
Manu Sporny: Yeah I believe it is I want to make it clear so that when Horry comes and reads this it's clear the instance in point given to the client is explicit sex licit Lee configured with a particular cryptographic sweet when the client receives the end.
Manu Sporny: The point.
Manu Sporny: It will know what suite is configured for that instance and point I guess you could argue that it doesn't know it but it might not matter like it will make a call and it will be signed with whatever crypto sweets set for that endpoint so he doesn't need to know it's just given an endpoint at.
Manu Sporny: That it uses.
Manu Sporny: So it doesn't have to configure the endpoint at all.
Manu Sporny: Quit for me let me try and Chase when the client makes a call to the instance and point.
Manu Sporny: Cryptographic sweet is set ahead of time and used it it's not configurable.
Manu Sporny: Unless through an extension to the VC API I guess we should say that because I think the traceability folks think about that a bit differently where they do want that kind of configurability ahead Patrick.
Patrick_(IDLab): I just thought of the idea maybe instead of being discoverable it's provided so there would be like a sort of configuration step that the client would need to take before to integrate the this system.
Manu Sporny: Yep yep Eurasian is provided.
Patrick_(IDLab): Sorry I meant instead of being a disk are discoverable.
Manu Sporny: Instead of being discoverable the configuration is provided to the client.
Patrick_(IDLab): Try it yeah that's good.
Manu Sporny: It was provided to the client prior to the coal fire.
Patrick_(IDLab): Just prior to the integration with the system.
Manu Sporny: All right how do you know what the issue is ID what issuer IDs and API supports in and the in which ones are supplied in the post body to create value VCS this is the the answer here is the same as the above.
Dave Longley: Yeah and again this was written before we've removed providing the issuer ID in the API because that's not a thing that you do.
Manu Sporny: The issue or ID is no longer provided in the API unless done via an extension to the Ricci API.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Patrick.
Patrick_(IDLab): Maybe that's the this point here but I'm wondering if there should be some discoverability like let's say I'm a scenario I'm a student wallet you know that's provided by the school or whatever and I can the school can issue me a certain set of credential like let's say my membership or my grades or whatever it is are the credential that I can be issued and I want to be able to be reissued in case I lose my wallet or.
Patrick_(IDLab): set my phone or whatever.
Patrick_(IDLab): Should there be like an endpoint that's like like the what the client is already compatible with the issuer but it gives me a choice of like which credential you want issued today do you want your membership your test results or this I can request it and since I'm already authenticated it's going to issue me the right values and my credential.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Dave you're all done did I clear Allen from the queue before I don't know Alan is that an old cue.
Manu Sporny: I'm presuming it's an old Kia go ahead Dave.
Dave Longley: Yes I think this gets to where some of the confusion was because the client that we're talking about here is a client that is oauth 2 credentials it's a within the trust boundary of the issuer and so the client we're talking about is never a digital wallet and if we're talking about a digital wallet there they're interacting with the exchanges API so a digital wallet would not be talking directly.
Dave Longley: Glee with the issue or service.
Manu Sporny: All right next item know what credential formats are supported again the answer I think is the same as the above like when you call an exchange is endpoint that exchanges endpoint in theory in the future could issue a verifiable credential or ACL sign blob or a mdl or MDOC or whatever credential format you want.
Manu Sporny: Go ahead Deb.
Dave Longley: Yeah I think the main thing here is that this is sort of top-down administration because this is all through with in a trust boundary the way that this would work is you would you would set up instances that are intended to be used by specific clients it's not that there are clients that would be out in the wild browsing an issue or service looking for some configuration that they could reuse and there would be no way for them to even get authorization to use it.
Dave Longley: We would have to have additional API service for them to ask for that.
Dave Longley: Instead it's you have some administrator that's saying I have these pieces these clients use pieces of software that are going to need to be able to issue credentials through the issuing service and so I need to create these instances for them to use and then it will add those URLs and whatever authorization tokens are required to those clients so that they can use them.
Dave Longley: And to add to that I think this discovery thing came from the idea that there would be a single endpoint for issuing credentials which is coming from that test Suite driven design and when we've we turn that on its head and fixed it based on use cases and applications instead this problem of discoverability I think mostly just went away.
Manu Sporny: And so the same thing for all to see each endpoint can support a variety of different Nazi but when you configure it instance and Point View very specifically say this is the type of watsi that's required on this end point in you will communicate that to the.
Manu Sporny: You'll communicate that.
Manu Sporny: The client out of band.
Alan Karp: You've got all things in all of that and to be not as either often.
Alan Karp: Above the bed.
Manu Sporny: Yeah that was the original text I don't know if I want to I think they're yeah they were talking about I'm almost certain Allen that they were talking about ought to see you know nothin.
Alan Karp: Okay well I mean just be careful because I've read a bunch of stuff and I just just saw him get confused.
Manu Sporny: Yep you totally totally totally agree with you even though this point still authentic the section that they point to his actually ought to see.
Manu Sporny: Because Swagger confused often a lot C as well.
Manu Sporny: Okay so this has been done this has been done and is in the latest spec.
Manu Sporny: These two proposals have been addressed via the instances mechanism in the VC API spec which pre configures instance and points with make sure IDs IDs crypto sweets and other.
Manu Sporny: Z mechanisms in other administrative or or system provided configurations those instance in points are then given to the appropriate clients.
Manu Sporny: Okay so the question is do we have a consensus to close this given that we have addressed all of the points would anyone object to well I mean we need to ask them did we miss anything or can we close the issue in the use cases team would like to understand the use case that you have so that we can analyze it to make sure that we've covered the use case.
Manu Sporny: Of group has a few questions one does this dress the initial use cases you had and then.
Manu Sporny: Is the solution appropriate for the use cases you have.
Dave Longley: I think those are the same question I think question 2 would just be coming close this issue.
Manu Sporny: The group feels like we've addressed all of the initial points raised in the issue.
Manu Sporny: It's really a question 24e and barley given all the others who has two questions okay so we'll mark that.
Manu Sporny: Well let me ask does anyone have objections to marking this pending closed meaning that you know as long as they don't object to closing it we will close it as long as we get answers to these two questions.
Manu Sporny: All right that's that item is 52 past the hour.
Manu Sporny: We will not be able to address these other two questions in three minutes so next week's call is going to be listening to John's presentation on verifiable credential API providing any feedback that we can determining when we might want to go and present at owf so that you know a number of us go with John to presented owf.
Manu Sporny: We will process the other two issues and keep going through issues anything else we need to cover for the meeting today.
Manu Sporny: Going once going twice.
Manu Sporny: Thank you everyone for the great meeting today really appreciate it we will meet again next week have a good one ciao.