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W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference

Transcript for 2023-07-18

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kimberly Linson: I tried to start the recording did it say didn't I don't think it's did it.
Mike Prorock: I did morning start but I do see you properly as moderator which is odd.
Kimberly Linson: Right and I see the subtitles now okay I'm going to stop and start again.
<mprorock> /me once again notes my hatred for jitsi ;)
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kimberly Linson: Okay hopefully that will work yes I see the transcriber now okay alright well that was exciting a good little wake up for the beginning of the meeting well welcome everybody I'm really excited to have Claire from diff with us today and so we'll get just do the housekeeping stuff since we wasted a couple of minutes with that little drama so that we can turn the turn the mic over to Claire for.
Kimberly Linson: Of all I think you know everyone.
Kimberly Linson: Is that we are we hold these meetings to the highest level of ethics and professional conduct if you are unsure of what that means and what the specifics are then please do click on the link that's located in the agenda so that you can refresh yourself on those anyone is welcome to join these calls and I'm really excited about the turnout today if you are one not getting the agenda which I just.
Kimberly Linson: I'm looking at right now.
Kimberly Linson: So many helpful links and it then please subscribe to the ccg so that you can see that information each week when it comes out as well as all the other conversations that happen on the list if you want to be more of a contributor and you really want to be involved in this community than I would also invite you to go ahead and sign the they create a W3 account and sign the IPR agreements.
Kimberly Linson: It is free to be a member of this community.
Kimberly Linson: Do a skit those that are really participating and complete those little action steps the links to that are also available in in this agenda we do keep meeting minutes and audio recordings and use the chitty-chat 2q speakers so please if you are interested in have a question for Claire and later on in the conversation you can just use Q Plus to add yourself to the list and that's sort of my job today is to sort of moderate that and make sure that we keep the.
Kimberly Linson: Recoupment going so now it's.
Kimberly Linson: One of my favorite parts of the day which is to do introductions and reintroductions do we have anybody who is new to the community or hasn't been here for a while and would like to let us know what they're up to please go ahead and kill yourself and I will call on you.
Michael_Shea: I can play Michael Che I'm been part of the community for a while I usually can't join on Tuesday 7 really have a standing Conflict at this time but today I was able to adjust so I'm here one of the here the diff presentation so glad to be here.
Kimberly Linson: Great we're certainly glad to have you.
Kimberly Linson: Welcome the floor is yours.
Eric_Vergnaud: Sorry I didn't unmute hello everybody I'm Erica with the issue University of Arizona State University acting as an engineering manager on the project called pockets and we're doing very viable clip shows on mobile for me is you.
Kimberly Linson: Great I'm so glad you're here.
Kimberly Linson: All right how about announcements and reminders.
Kaliya Young: Hi I just wanted to remind folks that the internet identity Workshop is coming up October 10 to 12 in Mountain View California and I just there are now two hotels actually within walking distance of the museum which is like a new innovation although one of them is very expensive and I haven't figured out how much the other one costs at least it's an option now it's.
Kaliya Young: It's so it's Mountain View.
Kaliya Young: And if you are interested in being there we want you there so if money is an issue please reach out thanks.
Kimberly Linson: Great thanks October in Mountain View is a beautiful time of year.
Kimberly Linson: And I love the idea of being able to walk I've mapped it a couple of times from my hotel I never been able to make it work.
Kimberly Linson: Anyone else with announcement through reminders.
Kimberly Linson: Is there anything that we need to discuss on about work items.
Kimberly Linson: Well then out without further Ado I am excited to introduce you all to Claire if you don't already know her and let her share with us a little bit about diff and what they've been up to and how we might be able to create some collaborative opportunities and synergies across our communities so Claire are so glad you're here the floor is yours and I'll do my best to moderate questions and.
Kimberly Linson: Provide any other assistance.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Thank you Kimberly and hello everyone can you hear me and can you see my presentation.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Excellent thank you so again my name is Claire Nelson I am the executive director for the decentralized identity Foundation also known as diff I recognize many of the names present maybe we crossed paths in the past 2018 I was with the w3c verifiable claims working group or perhaps that Del Novell all clear IDs a d g CV n't and previously before diff.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): I was with Amazon web services.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And the focus today is twofold.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): A diff overview where I will go rather rapidly and save more of the time for an ad if update by now you should have received a copy of this presentation if you have not please let me know make sure that you get one I have paid attention to provide Links at the bottom of some of the slides links inside the slide so this can serve as a reference and speaking of references at the bottom.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): um of.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): A stack at the end there are three pages of references that will help you accelerate your decentralized identity Journey it's a learning experience that never ends so a quick overview of diff.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): The primary scope for diff is of course decentralized identity and that's deeply rooted in dids or decentralized identifiers and verifiable credentials as defined in the w3c recommendations and of course the the model is the issuer holder verifier model now all this is probably very familiar to all of you if it's not I invite you at any time.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): If is glad to hold one-on-one or group sessions Le Mari navarrete is on she is our senior director of community engagement she holds new member orientations and when new members come on board and they're new to decentralize Identity they want to know what's it did they ask basic questions and and then there's there isn't much in the middle and then on the Other Extreme we get questions about well tell me about did method revocation and.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Trust the systems and that was inspiration for it.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Earlier this year if you're interested in that send me an email and then this slide is a reminder if any of you are fairly new to this topic decentralized identity decentralized digital identity dids are new they might be new to you maybe their old too many many people it's been six years with diff and working on it beforehand but they enable verifiable decentralized digital identity and a did can refer to.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): a person organization a thing.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): A data model abstract entity Etc it's not just a narrow definition definition of identity which some people take with them if they spent a lot of time in the Legacy identity and access management world I'm not denigrating that my roots are there but it's just a call out.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): So what's the diff mission in short we exist to accelerate the adoption of decentralized identity were an engineering driven organization and here you see four blocks and on the left is structured collaboration and we provide intellectual property right protection IPR protection I have a subsequent slide on that topic and that enables members from perhaps.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): To work together and collaborate safely this second block is technical specifications and hear the word specification is purposeful intentional and important we are not an sto diff is not a standards development organization we create specifications profiles Etc and often they are the roots or the foundation for standards but we are very conscious that we are.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Patience reference implementations along with creating the specifications it's very helpful to create software there's this loose term of a software stack which I know is not the best term but people understand it and then there's this notion of tools if you're building a decentralized idea of solution what are all the attendant tools that make it easier to do that and then of course the the last flock is industry coordination I have a.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): lied on that diffe does not work alone we work very closely with.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): So at its root dip is a Linux Foundation project that colors much of who we are and how we exist as a non-profit 501 C 6 the C6 means we serve our members and for the IPR protection there are two basic categories there are more but this will get you started specifications are protected under w3c patent policy and software is.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): is protected under.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): On the right this might be something fairly new to you in May the Linux Foundation announced its digital trust initiative and diff is a founding member of that and you recognize some of the other foundations in here hyper Ledger open Wallet Foundation trust over IP foundation and the goal of this is to make it easier for people to discover or fine or collaborate with these different organizations.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Noted that there were all these gems and it wasn't always apparent to people where to find them or what is offered by these different organizations and there's an entire webpage devoted to this under the Linux foundation and you can see it's at the bottom of this slide.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): So let's move on to add if I update.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): At the heart of diff are the working groups and this is a current snapshot I'll go through and more details some some more about the working groups and what's happening and in the upper right hand corner is a link to the working group creation policy if you were interested in creating a working group or want to know how is it working group governed or managed Etc that's a good link to follow so with these.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): these eight.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Groups you see there are claims and credentials secure data storage did come applied cryptography identifiers and Discovery wallet security side tree and did authentication now just a note did authentication work has been moved to the open ID foundation and many of you are probably familiar with oid see for VP for verifiable presentation or IDC for VC verifiable credentials and that's all work that's going on with the oh.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): open ID Foundation.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Just a few of these insecure data storage there's this notion of Don decentralized web nodes also called D web nodes has many nicknames I have a link at the bottom to Daniel Buckner and what a YouTube recording it was an ask me anything that was hosted and created by Le Mari navarrete and one of our larger Fortune 100.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): members there.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): The entertainment gaming category if you will they were interested and on their way to creating.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Many faults or personal data storage and they saw D WN s decentralized web nodes and are adopting that many of you are probably familiar with did Cam peer-to-peer secure communication and for BBS I'll have more details later.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): So this chart was an attempt to take an inventory of the top 10 and I know it's um I'm missing some so if you're working very hard on number 11 and 12 please don't be offended I really ran out of room on this slide but these are examples of diff contributions and working group focus and realize that some of these items did not originate at.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): instance did Cam came from hi.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): He's and some of these items may have started it diff and then as I mentioned earlier in the case of did authentication that work went to open ID foundation so in the subsequent slide I'll talk about the whole ecosystem but we're aware that as we are working it's really in collaboration and with many contributions from different sources so Universal resolver if anyone knows Marcus sabadell.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): though his name is almost.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): This with universal resolver how do you resolve a did into a did document and there's also a linter program I provided the link how do you want to make sure that the syntax and structure of your did document is conformant with a w3c recommendation for dids side tree that's a protocol it's permissionless and it's blockchain agnostic so it can sit on top of Bitcoin aetherium set.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Sarah and just as an aside here.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Question I get from especially nude if members well is it possible to implement a decentralized idea solution and not put it on a blockchain and yes for those of you that know did web that's a did method did web is one means for doing just that you can Implement decentralized Energy Solutions that are not sitting on top of digital Ledger's.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): did Cam.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And that's a contender for the trust over IP trust spanning protocol that's used by and dc04 their Aruba travel solution of course it's used by hyper Ledger Aries a presentation exchange that's a 2.0 now and it's a set of data formats that verifiers verifiers can use to articulate proof requirements.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): while it's.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): This is a place where we collaborate with the open Wallet Foundation diff works on specifications and the open Wallet Foundation does software that's our implicit handshake and agreement and currently the wallet security working group is addressing wallet container back up.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): I mentioned that went to open ID Foundation decentralized web nodes I mentioned earlier there's a link here to the decentralized webnode SDK and in applied cryptography we have some exciting news and updates I have more slides coming up but BBS signatures was presented to ietf back in March and we're up to draft 03 that would it's published on the ITF website just earlier this month and.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): it's used.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Matter and others and I say others because as you know if you work in the world of Open Standards and open source software you don't always know who's using your artifacts Json web proof want to be able to include zero knowledge proofs this was initially proposed and there's a space for development of this work I included a link.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Need trust establishment.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): It's a specification that is being done in collaboration with trust over IP and it's implemented by check T and in d.c. oh we could spend an entire day going over this I provided links and then again I invite you if you want to meet with with me and some of the subject matter experts from diffcult for your interested in contributing to any of these exciting and pioneering activities please let us know.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): So here's just one snapshot of the diff ecosystem and as I said we do not work in isolation we work very closely with many other organizations here of course w3c on the left with the recommendations for dids and VCS you see the ietf this Arrow going from applied cryptography to ietf that represents the BBS is your knowledge proof work.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And then open idea I mentioned that that was did authentication we work very closely with trust over IP did come is is a contender for the trust spending protocol and their many other conversations we have an ongoing overlapping meetings with trust over IP open Wallet Foundation I mentioned earlier they were they announced in February we were a launch partner with the open Wallet foundation and with Fido we're renewing our.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): nations with Fido they presented at iaw.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Back in 2022 in backup and replication came up so we're starting new conversations to be in sync with Fido.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): So if Mark is sabadell 0 is here and Marcus I'm not sure if you could make it this is his slide you want to make sure that he gave everyone an update on what's going on in the diff identifiers and Discovery working group and and basically you can see these are well designed tools for developers if you're interested in expanding your understanding of decentralized.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): identity and how it works this is a.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Is it at the bottom right in this table of selected work items you see Carrie and it says former Kerry has been archived it's now being managed by Sam Smith and is available in web of Trust website there is a link from the diff website to the carry archive and then side tree has reached its normal life cycle where we're taking a pause on it and this is true of many of the activities that we engage in.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): a specification May.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): On for four decades and decades after a certain period of time maybe months years it's indeterminate but it reaches a graceful reasonable place to pause and people say okay we have this specification will let it rest here and then maybe it'll be picked up in the future but that's the case of side tree.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And then again here's exciting news with the diff applied cryptography group and on the left hand side is the update from March on the right hand side is the update from July and on the left here you see that Tobias looker and bacillus Kalos presented at ITF in Japan in March and there's a link you go down to the second bullet.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): eat theirs.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): New tube to their presentation and I've noted this in the slide it took a screenshot you need to fast forward to at least 41 minutes into this presentation that's recorded from YouTube and then you can watch I was just thrilled to see this I'm not sure it may not ring your Bell but this was just very exciting to see them present this and then there's a link to the slide deck.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): that's the third bullet here.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): March update and just click on that link and search for the BBS signature scheme and you can download their tremendous deck and then on the right hand side draft 34 BBS signatures is now up on the ITF website and so and then you see this nice chart showing the timeline from July 22 to July 20 23 great progress by this group and again there are many links here.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): here so that you can learn and.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): With this I am not a PhD in cryptography I'm only a mere math major but this is truly exciting work.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And then this is for your edification I'm not going to go through the abstract for BDS signature scheme this is a snapshot from the deck but if you're interested in selective disclosure or privacy-preserving operations that's when you would perhaps Implement BBS signatures.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And then did calm there's a lot of great work going on with did calm it's a protocol that supports secure private communication many of you are probably familiar with did Cam so what attribute is missing from that statement it's transport agnostic so you can do did Cam over HTTP web sockets Bluetooth chat push notifications that p 2 p and QP SMTP near field communication sneakernet.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): I'll mail you don't even have to have power.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): You can use did Cam and here are some of the examples.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Use cases exchanging the Seas creating and maintaining relationships buying and selling scheduling events negotiating contracts voting presenting tickets for travel applying to employers or schools or Banks ranging Healthcare Playing Games Etc so as you can see the use case are almost endless and if you're interested in learning more about did Cam please let us know there's a lot of exciting work going on there.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): and then the dip half.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Again alomari if you're on still please take a bow she single-handedly managed in ran with the help of others of course the first of many diff hackathons and this was back in June we had presenters from many different companies including trinsic doc a VR Tech TBD TBD is accompanied by the way Danube Spruce ID we had over 50 participants and the winner.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): came up.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Wise personal finance.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Project I'm not sure if it's available now to use but if they won I apologize the wordweb five is on this slide I saw an email earlier please don't use web three this this slide has the word web 5 in it I'll take my lashes with wet spaghetti later on but this is a screenshot from the people that won the hackathon and why are we holding hackathons we get a lot of questions from diffa Members well.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): well I understand.
<mprorock> one persons opinion on using web3 is not reflective of this group or the w3c at large
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): What it did is what if you see is I understand this issuer holder verifier model that how do I build it what do I do and it reminds me of my brother one of my brothers took apart his Camaro and at one point strewn throughout the garage floor where all the piece parts for the engine and if you walked in and didn't know how to put together an engine had never seen an engine you would not know what to do and that's somewhat similar to one of the diff members some of the some of them join us and.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): and they say we'd like to create a descent.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): I said now.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Lucien but we don't know how all the pieces fit together and so the diff hackathons are a tremendous vehicle for this if you're interested in joining forces with us as we create more hackathons moving forward please reach out to me or Le Mari.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And here's an example use case they ask okay give me a use case and this slide is from someone you may know dr. Suzanne Guff Orlowski and she is using decentralised I'd a solution for the EU digital product passport and here's an example you see and the reminder the private keys and a wallet the public key can go into did document in a public place on a digital.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Ledger or stored on a server or some.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Handy place for public use you probably smiling because you go of course the private key is stored in the wall or some secure private place but if you're dealing with a lot of especially the nude if members ask these questions.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And a drum roll please this is our latest Sig in addition to the working groups to have has open groups and many special interest groups and that spans topics from vertical market segments perhaps Healthcare and travel Hospitality Banking and for the Korea Sig this is our newest Sig they have their kickoff meeting tomorrow and the chair is coming true.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): ballpark you may.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Him at IW in April he's a CEO 4K for security and he's collaborating with the ministry of Science and information communication technology to research to centralize Identity he's done a tremendous job of corralling many different parties in Korea for this you see the list of attendees here on the left and we look forward to hearing all about this monumental.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): really truly.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Groundbreaking step in diff history and also for the diff Korea Sig and this is also just a footnote we see pockets of passionate interest from different geographies different verticals different groups it's quite interesting to see how decentralized identity is taking off around the globe.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): And with that I thank you for your time if you want more information please visit the diff website its identity to Foundation or feel free to contact me I'm Claire at identity foundation and with that I'd be more than happy to entertain questions.
Kimberly Linson: Thank you so much Claire well while folks are joining the queue I'm going to I'm going to ask you you know I loved that pockets of passionate interest that that I think is my experience in this community is that there are we are growing and I think Jeff is growing too by Leaps and Bounds and I think one of the challenges that that I see is trying to help people plugin.
Kimberly Linson: Because they.
Kimberly Linson: Are that passionate pocket and yet they don't know they don't know sort of how to how to get that first step of Engagement and I'm just curious if you have any experience or wisdom that you can pass along to sort of how to get new folks.
Kimberly Linson: Find the right pocket.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): I'll start and and then others can join in because they may have ideas too but as I mentioned earlier when people some of the new members when people approached if some of them are coming and they're at the very basic level we're starting with dids in VCS and we're just describing some of the basics and it's a steep learning curve and that's also why I have three pages of references references at the end of this deck and then.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): others come in and they're quite advanced.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): They may be there was one very large corporation and they were in the midst of ruling out decentralized decentralized identity in an airport and they had questions about scale and so being able to have an on-ramp for the beginner or the advanced practitioner is not easy so and that's why I said I extend an invitation if people want to set up a one-on-one or a small meeting with me and some subject matter experts.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): we offer that we have.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): New member orientations were rolling out more hackathons but and then the Linux Foundation is doing a great job with their digital trust initiative because then that has the website where people can go and learn where that it's basically a matter of finding out what are the specific needs of one of these passionate parties and then connecting them with the right people but thank you Kimberly that's something that we struggle with and we.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): We accept any comments or recommendations.
Kimberly Linson: Great thank you yeah I definitely there is such energy in this community and I think we can it's all about sort of really trying to figure out how to harness that and I'm just hearing your presentation I was so impressed by the all the work that has been that you all have been doing and the Synergy between the work that we're doing and so I just and and all the folks that you listed on that digital trust slide I was like there's this is this is a really.
Kimberly Linson: Exciting time to be.
Kimberly Linson: In this space for sure does anyone else have a question that they want to I'll stop monopolizing the conversation and let someone else Drive jump in.
Kimberly Linson: All right well oh Martin.
Kimberly Linson: Did you want to do have a question.
Kimberly Linson: All right well I'm curious you know to know what you think about the overlap between the open Wallet foundation work and the diff work.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Thank you Kimberly yes I've gotten that question many many times and what I said earlier is that.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): There's a dividing line so to speak an imaginary dividing line where diff focuses on specifications and the open Wallet Foundation focuses on software and of course that involves quite a bit of collaboration and Synergy we work very closely with the open Wallet foundation and it's a it's a place for instance for backup we're working on.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Mechanisms for backing up wallets and that can't be done in isolation it requires some testing some coordination and that's where very close work with open Wallet Foundation is required Daniel Ghost Rider he is the executive director for open Wallet foundation and he extends open invitations all the time they're very easy group to work with and since they're a fellow then.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): this Foundation.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): That makes it even easier thank you for that question.
Kimberly Linson: So are there ways that you feel like.
Kimberly Linson: The ccg can be collaborating in new ways that we haven't before or do you feel like that that have you do you have ideas of ways that we can be sharing work I know one of the things that's come to my mind hearing you give the update was you all have created a lot of really great resources for newcomers to this space I actually used used those when I was learning about about this work and so I think.
Kimberly Linson: Think you know that point.
Kimberly Linson: Folks from the ccg rather than trying to create our own on ramping I think you know is one way that I'd really like for us to be working together and to be contributing to those as we can but if there are there other things that we can be doing as a community to support the work that you're you're doing.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Yes so start with two things number one is if there is a working group where you you see some interests and want to join forces that's good if you want a deep dive into one particular area that that's something else because I covered a wide range of topics and the one slide with the top 10 contributions I think taking a deep dive and finding out where the.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): the edges were the.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): There is a Synergy with ccg that'd be something I'd be willing to explore and then with upcoming hackathons we're always looking for presenters so if someone is interested in being a presenter or even participating in the hackathon that'd be good and we had people from around the globe there was one person from Egypt he was on it for am his time participating in the hackathon I think that for those of you who have who have not been involved.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): of hackathons.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Only a little it will revive your interest in coding and learning.
Kimberly Linson: Do you have plans for for the next one.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): We are working on that right now we have not set any dates yet but stay tuned for updates.
Kimberly Linson: Okay I'm definitely interested at least to be a to be an active-active Watcher Observer of what's going on so all right anybody let me just check the queue here and see.
Kimberly Linson: Questions for Clare about diff.
Kimberly Linson: I'll do my long teacher pause.
Kimberly Linson: All right well clear it thank you so much for coming and sharing and I definitely agree that you know I was taking some notes about things that I think we could do a deeper dive about and so that I think as we look to the new year and planning we need to come together and have a conversation about what where the where those edges and intersections are best served and how we can also support.
Kimberly Linson: Support your work and with the heck of.
Kimberly Linson: I know from my work with the plugfest that that that drive drove my learning forward in a big way so all right exciting stuff I'll give everybody back sometime this afternoon to to maybe grab a bite to eat if you're on the East Coast it's lunchtime I'm starving so thank you so much and we'll look forward to seeing you all next week.
Clare_Nelson_(DIF): Thank you Kimberly thank you everyone.