<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> In case you missed the email notification, please note that the meeting starts in 60 minutes, due to the mismatch of summer time clock changes. Apologies about the inconvenience.
<eric_shepherd> One idea would be to provide times in UTC and we can use that within our calendars
<kaliya_identity_woman> this is really lame....honestly. We have been on the new time here in north america for 2 weeks. Europe just joiend us on summer time...and well we should be on the same time now.
<eric_shepherd> UTC = Coordinated Universal Time
<eric_shepherd> Okay - thank you
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> In case you missed the email notification, please note that the meeting starts in 60 minutes, due to the mismatch of summer time clock changes. Apologies about the inconvenience.
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> me says:In case you missed the email notification, please note that the meeting starts in 60 minutes, due to the mismatch of summer time clock changes. Apologies about the inconvenience.
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> In case you missed the email notification, please note that the meeting starts in 60 minutes, due to the mismatch of summer time clock changes. Apologies about the inconvenience.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> Thank you, Hugo.
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> Hello everyone, welcome to today's Verifiable Credentials for Education task force call. Let's start with the usual IP Note: Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all substantive contributors to any CCG Work Items must be members of the CCG with full IPR agreements signed. Please note that these meetings are recorded. We have a robot transcriber and we also do an audio and a video recording. If you want to speak, please raise your hand, or type “q+” in the chat to add yourself to the queue.
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Yeah thank you go so my name is f b I'm the founder of Primus money which is it company uh we were originally specialized on ethereum blockchains and for the past year we've been working on verifiable credentials and as you go mentioned in the employment credential cluster so and this is where we developed solution and so I understand that the discussion will be more on the data model and uh schemas of the verifiable credential that we have been using. ✪
Kristen_Franklin,_Digital_Promise: Hello everyone happy Monday my name is Kristen Franklin I'm the associate director of uh product at digital promise which is a us-based education nonprofit we sit at the intersection of uh researchers and developers and a practitioner networks to really um improve access to Great education everywhere so we're an equity Equity based nonprofit and um and really excited to be here uh this is my very first um. ✪
Kristen_Franklin,_Digital_Promise: Uh dbc3 um presentation so I'm excited to be here thank you for having me. ✪
Phil_Long_(T3): Thank you um just a reminder for those in the US that are thinking about attending the trusted learner network uh April 3rd and 4th the afternoon of the third is a presentation by the T3 and um Innovation Network and the US Chamber of Commerce foundation on the work-related credentials associated with. ✪
Phil_Long_(T3): Um the efforts that are underway here for the uh so-called lar ecosystem. ✪
Phil_Long_(T3): We'll be talking about um the uh a guide and uh resource library for those that are in the process of implementing such systems as well as um the link claims um approach that um Demetri zagadou and I. ✪
Phil_Long_(T3): Uh gold of Alles have been working on to allow for self asserted credentials to be authored from a web-based user interface and related topics so that's April 3 uh in the US in Phoenix Arizona associated with ASU stress of burner Network thank you. ✪
<sharon_leu> @Phil - If people can't attend, is there any way for them to learn more and see some of the resources?
Kaliya Young: Hi we've got um iiw coming up in April. ✪
Kaliya Young: Um which uh has lots of stuff happening around it um I have really good news uh we have our Africa. ✪
Kaliya Young: Uh Regional event site live so I'm going to share the URL for that um coming up in september June we have digital identity unconference Europe in Zurich and september not september January 2025 will be in. ✪
<phil_long_(t3)> TLN info:
<phil_long_(t3)> @sharon We'll be releasing the initial draft of parts of the Guide and Resource Library at the meeting and these will be publicly available at that time on the T3 hub website https://t3networkhub.org
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> :+1:
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: So uh we will be talking about the certificate of work and certificate of work is actually when you have left the company and that you get so the jurisdictions in the different country can be different but more or less it's kind of always the same idea is that the company is most often obliged to to give you a document stating that you have worked in what position you have been with the company. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: so but employment credential is something is. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Was okay today it's maybe 1 of the big source of credentials because you have a different aspect which is when you are still an employee you often ask for what we call an employment attestation so there is a difference with the certificate of Works meaning that the employer is at testing that you are still an employee. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: And you are using that in your relationship with for example Banks or land loans so meaning that these documents and the another 1 which is the salary slip is definitely an attestation that the companies are producing in in mass and that people are definitely needing to uh to get a good credit score to a bank or to a landlord. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: So this is where we have this uh situation where when you are in the company you are receiving a potentially a lot of credentials but today it's usually in the form of a PDF. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: And we do have a lot of fraud on this kind of PDF. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Particular on the salary slip where people will change their their wedge uh or even you know in the position that they have in the company the the the they use some uh uh blank paint and change some names and some uh uh. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: For the certificate of work this is where uh in fact you are living in the company and there is uh. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Usually a low defining exactly what should be in this document. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: And uh when we make the connection with the uh the education this is where in fact the diplomats kind of like a certificate of work. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: But it's more kind of you have a background where you have a a more uniformity on the semantics but maybe you have less of a uniformity on the structure of the document itself meaning that usually you you have to give your name and and first name like in a diploma but you know you have to provide some definite uh elements because you are uh you have to prove by law that these people person has been an employee. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: So this is where we uh. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Went into this situation where we we have the the the double aspect of the certificate of work is something that is very standardized and that we could put into uh a schema. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: But the semantic within the schema could be different from 1 company to another to another for example the the uh definition of a job position okay there is a practice where you tend to uh uh have a a common practice among people but you can have some uh uh difference from uh 1 company to another you know uh Google calling that an expert in technology and someone calling that an architect or something else. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: This is where we uh produced uh a schema so that we can have a certificate of work you know in a proper form but we are still facing this discussion about how people will uh feed this document and 1 important aspect is that I mentioned that there is a lot of PDF that are produced today meaning that the companies usually have a production of attestation in PDF format format that is already there so we we more have to think of how we can plug on an existing uh pipeline of data more than kind of come and say that you have to change everything into your Erp because usually the data that we are talking about are coming from an Erp so this is where. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: We took to a company and saying that you have to touch to an Erp this is a no-go from the start. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Uh and so this is where I will maybe hand over the the the the discussion to Hugo because I mentioned the certificate of work which is a bit like a diploma and saying that it's a way for you to to prove that you have acquired some experience and that is kind of an experience that you had you know in the past uh but this is where you know you have also a lot of attestation which are produced within a company and so 1 of the as testation that we have not experienced or experimented you know in the employment credential stream but we are thinking about this for example the performance evaluation. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Are producing a lot of data you know and structured data with this uh performance uh evaluation and this is where something this data are not used today Beyond you know having your performance review and your potentially the bonus that you have at the end of the year so and this is where so Hugo mentioned that okay there is a an ongoing Trend saying that there is also a lot of uh uh training the internal training and this is where micro credentials could be a way to uh uh capture those uh data and put them into a format that an employee can leverage to uh uh probe is a professional experience uh is knowledge and things like that so maybe you go you can give a big background on the micro credential in this context. ✪
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah I wanted to say uh thank you both uh for uh for the introduction I think I think we're all on board here in this call about the value of microcredentials uh both in terms of employment certificates uh and anything else uh would would you be able to uh go into details and share the data model with us. ✪
<kristen_franklin,_digital_promise> :+1:
Dmitri Zagidulin: So what like what what your credentials look like. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: So this is so for the employment sorry for the certificate of work this is where we have published something and that is available that has been published on FC pilot site but I think that maybe if you have that at hand you go you can send uh the the the full schema that we. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Uh so this is 1 and so the important aspect in this case is is a list of position that you add in the company because this is kind of. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Some sort of the Experian degrees that you have acquired you know throughout your uh uh. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Participation in the company so and what I mentioned is that. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: You may have some semantic you know issues about saying that meaning semantics in the sense that from a machine point of view this is where the machine may have you know sometimes difficulties to to know if this is exactly the same position or not but usually when you you look from a recruiter point of view this is where it's definitely something that is understood so. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: So this is the the list of uh occupations that are provided in the certificate of work and then we have the other 1 which is the uh employment at the station. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: That I briefly mentioned but that as a different kind of role this is more than proving that you are still in the company so it's less to do with you know proving your Worth to another employer it's proving your Worth to a bank or to a landlord saying that you have this kind of position so meaning that you will have the means to pay the back your credit uh your loan or your to pay your rent every month. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: And this is where we we we fall into the you know the devil is in the details and so the idea is quite uh easy to understand and saying that you have a single point of truth of saying that we will be using this schema so that when I'm an issue I can produce you know uh using this schema and so I will format my data in a way that okay verify decided to use the same schema they will be able to receive the the schema and the data uh with no glitches but actually this is where. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Always people adding other things because for example the uh so. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: You you always have either you know. ✪
FredericBaud-PrimusMoney: Specific laws which are local laws or you have you know a practice which are National practice and you will have some uh additional field and because you know the the flexibility of verifiable credential allows you to have optional or even you know non-specified Fields this is where you will still have the the issue of. ✪
<sharon_leu> Have you been testing the interoperability of these credentials with just the EBSI early adopters or "in the wild" with your verifier partners?
<christoph_graf_(switch.ch)> And how does ESCO fit into this picture https://esco.ec.europa.eu/ "ESCO is the multilingual classification of European Skills, Competences, and Occupations"?
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> That sounds very exciting (the performance reviews that could become verifiable claims).
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> How interesting!
<sharon_leu> Agree. And especially the connection with promotions.
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> I understand why this isn't a simple question.
<phil_barker> Thank you, though the question came from Christoph
<christoph_graf_(switch.ch)> Thanks ;-)
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> Indeed.
<sharon_leu> Other than fraud detection, have the companies you work with found other benefits?
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> To some extent in ESCO the classification is already taking care of *SOME* of the occupation - skill linking, but it is a little too broad, I would imagine a credential to have a narrower list or related essential and optional knowledge and skills.
<fredericbaud-primusmoney> I was mentioning the occupation of "softwar architect", I think I could no find it (or some other terms like that)
<ildiko_mazar_(elm)> @sharon, I imagine maybe the underlying model being multilingual is a big plus in labour mobility (across borders).
<sharon_leu> That's interesting about skills transferability. Employers in the US are typically more protective and don't want to help staff find jobs in other companies!