<ildiko_mazar> Hello everyone, welcome to today's Verifiable Credentials for Education task force call. Let's start with the usual IP Note: Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all substantive contributors to any CCG Work Items must be members of the CCG with full IPR agreements signed. Please note that these meetings are recorded. We have a robot transcriber and we also do an audio and a video recording. If you want to speak, please raise your hand, or type “q+” in the chat to add yourself to the queue.
<ildiko_mazar> If we have any new people in the call, or somebody who would like to reintroduce themselves, please feel free to take the floor. If nobody wants to take the floor, we can move on to the main agenda topic, that are Projects supporting LERs for learners and employers.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
<danielle_saunders> trying to use the microphone - I'm Danielle Saunders
Danielle_Saunders: Okay I figured it out sorry about that. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Morning everyone I just wanted to say hello um Colin asked me to do um a quick um show and tell of something I'm working on so I thought I'd say hello at the top of the call and you'll hear from me soon. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: A awesome thank you. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh hello everybody share my screen. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Is that coming through okay. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Wonderful um well hello everyone. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Um let's see Eric. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Had himself to the queue. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Hey Eric did you want to share something. ✪
Eric_Shepherd: No sorry that was a mistake for Colin sorry. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: All good um well uh my name is Colin Reynolds I work with education Design Lab uh regular some some faces or names uh. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: The chat today and uh see some other new ones I've been attending these these calls for a few years now usually um learning alongside everyone else and learning from all of you uh so very excited to share some of the work that that I've been up to with education Design Lab uh form way works with learning economy foundation and in the first 15 years of my career were spent in uh schools as a classroom teacher and administrator uh of all ages mostly Elementary Middle School um but now have been in this space for the last handful of years um and excited to share some of the projects we've been working on so like to put a little context around it I wanted to give a brief overview of Education Design Lab and the work that we do and then we'll get into some of the projects uh and and then I'll hand it over to Danielle to talk about uh 1 of the the tools that we've created to support some of our partners in this work. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Now if you have any questions feel free to just throw them in the chat uh there's a a slide for Q&A but uh we can just take them as we go as well. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: All right so so we are a national nonprofit based in the United States uh the home base was Washington DC prior to the pandemic and and then the lab became uh a remote company or remote group that works with colleges universities in other organizations including employers and increasingly more work with employers uh around um designing testing and building new models and approaches to solving challenges for uh individuals that need them most we usually talk about uh the new majority Workforce which are typically um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: First generation college students uh or non non-degree college students but we work alongside very closely with community colleges uh increasingly more estate education groups uh State Workforce boards uh and other organizations to help really kind of build ecosystems of solutions. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So we a lot of the work is done designing uh micro Pathways with post-secondary groups again currently our work is mostly based in the US we have been increasingly learning from many that are on the call here and a lot of the modeling what uh been going on in Europe with the Euro pass and a lot of the other projects um specifically in the way that that the standards are being uh incorporated into Solutions so some of the work we're going to talk about uh explicitly States uh some of the technical standards that we are hoping our partners are are checking for or or requesting as they're looking at credent in and using data to help support their Learners and employers import uh supporting their earners. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh so we'll talk a little bit about some of the how we approach this work with higher education Partners we talk about a digital discoverability strategy um that includes learning an employment records uh other forms of verified credentials um we we also do some work with employers under what's becoming more talked about in the states as skills first to work or skills-based hiring in advancements skills are really becoming uh a very uh common topic for policy makers state boards State education boards um and groups working to try to find ways to get people into jobs without having the 4 year to degree requirement or 2 year degree requirement be the standard so they talk a lot about that work is skills based and skills first and and then I'll share a little bit about a project that we are leading with the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation uh called experience you. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: How we can we can chat a little bit about some of those projects and then want to hand it over to Danielle to talk about the tool that we uh are using most actively to support our higher education Partners in navigating this whole world. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So I threw on the Lear slide I think many here know what a knower is but when we work with our partners we end up finding ourselves in the place of of educating them on uh just what an ler is exactly and what it isn't and how they can think about it inside of a bigger strategy but the the idea of an ler being an employment record is uh increasingly um common in the approach uh to our work and and our partners often come to us and ask for support in building an ler or you know what is and what is in an oer so we really talk about it as a a collection of of All Digital records uh and and the experience you project that I'll share a little bit more about is taking past uh experiences employment and learning and helping to credential them in a way that would allow individuals to bring their past experiences forward into this digital realm because a lot of the work that happens is uh focused on current uh issuance of credentials and and moving forward. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: uh not many organizations. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Ations think about how. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Issue for past experiences to include those in into a learning and employment record. ✪
<laura_paglione> Will you be sharing the slides or the links that are on the slides?
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So in in the work that we do I mentioned it it being more about digital discoverability and a strategy we we keep the humans at the center of all the work that we do so at Design Lab really focuses on human centered and Equity centered design we have a lot of tools and processes for centering the the problem statements and solutions statements with those individuals in in mind so we we've done a a we've done a ton of work across a variety of states in the US um but the common theme Here is that the humans are the focus uh so when we think about a skills-based ecosystem we look at micro credentials and credentials digital badges whatever you want to call them they all have sort of different nuances to them but Micro credentials sit at the core of of the L which should be stored inside a digital wallet where an individual has some ownership and ability to Port those credentials to places that are going to help find help them find Value and opportunity in a skills based ecosystem but it's it's incredibly important. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Center that with the humans that are being impacted by it so it involves a lot of design sessions with employers with higher education partners with Learners with earners and um a combination of all of them together. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So with micro credentials in mind the lab created a set of durable skills micro credentials um that have competencies these are the the 9 main competencies there are sub competencies associated with them and this set of durable skills we also developed a set of learning uh modules and assessments that help to uh basically credential existing experience for individuals so the the tools called X credit uh the X credit assessments that's a whole separate presentation that this group may be interested in uh but the xcredit really helps our partners think about ways that they can uh validate uh these skills and competencies in the context of whatever industry they're working in and so there's a lot of different applications for it in the assessments that have been created are are very rigorous assessments at a research base uh they're they're scenario based so you can imagine an individual going through sort of a a mock problem solution. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Dialogue with another human in a virtual setting uh if you could go as far as you know putting it into a VR Set uh to engage in that as well but that um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: This is a way that we work with our partners to help talk about and sort of calibrate around what we mean when we say durable skills or soft skills and uh how we can teach those skills explicitly and assess them and award credentials to represent those competencies. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So this I I know is a probably a little overwhelming of a visual but when we talk with our higher education Partners or increasingly more with employers about what we mean when we say digital discoverability and skills visibility what we're really trying to do is help identify skills that individuals are learning in specific contexts and how we can make those skills visible inside of the larger ecosystem for employers to find and for individuals to be able to see I think that's been a a real uh powerful part of the work that we do with with Partners is that. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Go through these process are they collect credentials they get a better sense of the skills that they actually have which helps them navigate their conversations and interview processes and application processes for new jobs but when we work with Partners we we start talking about the skills and we want to make sure that we have identified the skills that are happening and align those uh skills to the learning experiences that are going on whether it's on campus or in a work-based uh learning environment internships apprenticeships what have you or combination of all those things so in order to make those skills visible we need to use well in this case credentials and verified credentials help to document those and attach assessment uh attach evidence so that when they take them in their l in their wallet to a Marketplace they're able to bring those to the surface. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh so this is an example of what 1 of those micro Pathways might look like um so this was uh created with the burrow of Manhattan Community College uh we do this work with I think we're actively working with uh about 40 community colleges across the country um again mostly focused around Stars which are those who are skilled through alternative routes so many of these are non-degree programs often non-credit programs as well that are focused on industry certifications High need or in need job positions um inside of specific regions in States so we work with the the both ends of the spectrum so the employers that would be hiring these individuals and the colleges and education institutions which is increasingly moving into high school for some of the dual enrollment programs um as well we run through design sessions to help identify the experiences that individuals need to have you can see the 21st uh. ✪
<sharon_leu> Is BMCC issuing the EMT basic credentials as VCs?
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Are embedded in there as well um so the collection of all of these uh credentials then helps to build an ler that they can take into uh in this case the specific industry but we do these for Industries all all types of different Industries we also do the work with the employers uh to understand what skills are needed and connect those to the skills that are being taught explicitly in these learning programs. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So this is a a sample uh LR infrastructure graphic that that Danielle actually put together it helps to kind of create a better visual for the employers that we're working with and the the education partners that we're working with the idea of an ler is still uh many people get it when it's all laid out but coming in cold to some of these conversations it was really helpful to see a graphic about how all these parts connect. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Who's attended I um ler recommended practices working group over the last 4 years this is sort of inspired by that um that model and the original kind of trust triangle that was put out in in the early days of this work but when we talk with our education Partners or providers here they're the ones who are actually creating and managing a collection of credentials and issuing them um and that education provider can be a college it can be a training program you for us we we've created durable skills that are being issued or by other higher ed institutions or uh training partners. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: We want to help them see that when they issue that credential it should actually be then stored in a digital wallet and an individual should be able to take those credentials and achievements to help build their profile and their resume to share with employers whether that's directly with employers through an applicant check checking system or uh human resource information system or by diving into a talent Marketplace which is a growing concept I think um across the employment landscape. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Those employers receive that right so this I think this group is very well-versed with all of this uh the employers then want to verify that that credential is what um it was issued to be and it has the the evidence and data inside of it to be unpacked to verify that they have those skills that they have um the sort of the skills to do the job that they're being hired for. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Credential registry or trust registry uh we don't really get too much into that with the education providers um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Until we start building a strategy and implementing that strategy in action but uh that can go a lot of different ways as everyone here knows. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So this then tries to help connect the job Seekers qualifications and what would appear in their current resume or application and oar with the job posting that the employers are doing and this is where we increasingly are working with employers to make sure that the job postings they're creating uh I use those skills language and skills uh terminology to identify what it is they're actually looking for and connected to the skills that individuals have um and have earned through their their learning achievements. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So I'll stop there do some resources that I think are helpful to at least keep track of some major ler initiatives and work happening in the states um and these all I can share this deck with everybody and all these are linked to these initiatives um or tools but I'll I'll just give a little pause and see if there's any questions or comments. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): So we have a question in chat from Sharon. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): Uh with regards to the borrow Manhattan are they issuing the Mt basic credentials as verifiable credentials. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yes so that that's the big part of of our work with them is that we do bring to to light the the different types of credentials and standards that support them and Danielle the tool that she's going to share is a great comparison tool for our partners to see what issuers like what what form they're actually issuing those credentials in I think that's that's part of the challenge that we can make recommendations about. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: What they should be looking for asking for but the reality is many of them have um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Credential issuing platforms that they are signed on to that don't issue as VCS um and so that gets uh a little messy but yes we we would always recommend that they issue them as verifiable credentials. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh so in in that data structure so that they can. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Interoperable and individuals can actually store them in compatible wallets. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah so that the work of the the mikrop pathways that we build uh end up becoming more of a regional regionally focused efforts because we do the design sessions with the higher education groups or the training providers and we do them with the employers we have tools that are surfacing those skills and then making that visible on both sides right so when the employers go through the process and say we have a tool called the T profile that helps to identify the top 3 durable skills and then the top 3 technical or um industry specific skills for that role as as named by employers we surface those and they share those across um the design groups so that the employers are seeing what higher ed prioritizes in their programs and that employer or education provider see what the employers are identifying in their programs or is or what they need to be successful in those job roles. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Um so that that's part of that process then when it actually comes to the. ✪
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> all of the components in the pathways use CTDL and CTIDs for data about the pathway components (credentials, courses, programs, competencies)
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Ing strategy and embedding that skills data inside of the credentials that's where the conversation moves with the education providers to say you know how are you how are you going to do this what platform are you going to use what tools are you going to use to actually make that happen and I think I saw Deb Deb's name on here uh Deb Everhart from credential engine credentials uh uh important. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh partner in that process for. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Storing skills data and uh using structured language to make sure that that's represented inside the credentials as well. ✪
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> not all of the colleges are publishing their competencies in CTDL, but many are
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah of course so. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh I'm going to fly through experience you a little bit because this tool or this initiative is doing some of the Lear work um at scale with uh some of the partners that are doing things. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: At the systems level right so the examples I just shared with education providers with employers and some of the the regional work we're doing there this initiative um is with the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation it's still focused on Les but it's it's using AI to take uh existing skills data whatever that may be from individuals and translating that into credentials that would then be issued to those individuals so you can imagine um as I go through here I'll just share some of the partners uh some of the work in the projects that they that they created so we are really built on this premise that uh Les are. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Ible for most people so this project really wanted to see how we might use AI to help make lers at scale for people navigating their career and uh Economic Opportunity. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So this this started last year was Phase 1 these are all the uh groups that were participating in this initiative um this was not something that was uh funding each of these teams in their work it was more about finding people who are doing this kind of work or want to engage in this kind of work and um want to dedicate time and effort to sort of a project Sprint to show proof of concept around technical standards so this this 1 um was about building oars with technical standards underneath them this was a very simple graphic for how we went about that. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: But these were the Milestones the technical Milestones that we were asking project teams to build around and you could see uh the the structured Json LD formats of obb 3 crb2 and and the verified credential data model 1.1 that was the base so when when groups were coming to this work saying how how do we structure it these are these are the the formats that you should be working in and then issuing to individuals so that their ler can be both human readable and machine readable. ✪
<ildiko_mazar> @Phil Long, sorry I just noticed you were in the queue. Can we get back to your question later?
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: The application of AI in this work ended up kind of falling into sort of 3 buckets um credential mapping uh scale and competency extraction and then AI agents as assistant so 1 of the projects uh was working with incarcerated people side uh of prisons in the states and they had built a very simple chat agent where um because inmates aren't able to type into keyboards they had to use a voice-based uh chat agent to have an individual talk about some of the experiences they had inside of prisons like if they were working in a kitchen or they were cleaning for years they would share those experiences the chat agent would kind of um respond to them and say hey it sounds like you did these things and you you learned these skills is that true or not and as they were validating uh those experiences through this chat interface they would then create credentials on the back end that that embedded that skills data inside of them so that when they were released from prison. ✪
<pl/t3> @Ildiko - my comment was about your question which, I think at this point we've moved on from so I might jump in later but it's not critical now. Thanks for asking.
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Digital wallet with credentials to go then take to find opportunity um so that's an example of a of an agent assistant that was uh used in this project. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: On all this work was really built around these different personas so that this again goes back to the human centered nature of of Education design Labs work is we're really rallying around the individuals that are going through this process and in this phase at least um for this work groups work talking with and working with individuals and and validating their tools with individuals that are getting ears created for them so they're very much a human uh humans in the design process and working with these teams to create and validate the tools. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So here are some of the the key takeaways I want to focus on the the interoperability of all this work it is possible and I think that was uh you know the question that shared was asking too is you know if you do all this work and it's not in uh an interoperable data format then does it really help them navigate a skills ecosystem or a larger uh digital uh world and you know our our response to that would be no it doesn't if you're issuing credentials but they don't have any portability to them you can't store them in a wallet you can't do anything with them outside of that narrow platform or environment then it really doesn't help them um find new opportunity and really doesn't help them uh even just understand the skills that they have maybe. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh so this deck will get shared these are some low earnings but we got into phase 2 now and that's where I think Simone kind of nudged me to share with this group is that we're expanding on what we learned in Phase 1 and the proof of Concepts there to start doing a longer timeline around field testing so we know that these tools exist we know that groups are doing this work and we're trying to align with uh projects that are using AI or or translating and or translating past experiences into production formats to take with them and again this is all being done uh as a project with the US Chamber of Commerce Foundation under the T3 Innovation Network so that's a a network that the the chamber is overseas um it's this initiative specifically is funded by the bill and the Gates Foundation um but it sits under the T3 Innovation Network and I know Dmitri and others are involved in some of those other working groups and other projects with the T3 Network as well um with. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: The foundation of all of this would be technical standards and in some cases building uh standards to help um Advanced all this work. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So this is the guiding question that we're using for Phase 2 is really we are looking to get these into the hands of individuals at scale so that they can navigate and help to build this this broader ecosystem I think the scale part is really the focus of of phase 2 is that we've seen some groups doing this work and now we'd really like to highlight uh the scaling of their efforts and we we kicked off a couple months ago and this will be running sort of in 2 uh Parts uh 1 through the end of this year and then the second um being at the beginning of next year. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: And we have some some guidelines that we've created for this this work and I'll show that after I'm not going to go through go too far into that now but um if anyone has any questions about any of these I'll make sure that my email address gets in the chat and I would love to chat more about any of this Taylor Hansen is uh the partner at the US chamber Foundation who is helping to lead this work so he and I um work closely on this and many on the call I think are aware of or have have been involved with some groups of participated in uh Phase 1 and are uh participating in Phase 2 so here's the timeline of that work as well. ✪
<pl/t3> Hello everyone!
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: As I mentioned this wasn't a we aren't funding project teams um it's really the a community of practice that's being developed here because we are all kind of navigating this world together um we see that as being a really powerful part of this effort and we've heard that from participants as well is that really being able to connect with others who are doing this work and talk about some of the challenges and successes they're having is really powerful um Phil long is the lead technical uh advisor on this project and was through Phase 1 as well um and through this effort there is uh a real uh powerful opportunity to have this sort of discourse out in the open and have a platform to elevate these conversations uh with others oh I see Phil Phil is on here hey Phil um so he can he can answer any questions about some of the technical stuff and just this project um at large um the other uh platform that we're using is the T3 meeting scheduled to have some of these conversations so uh the T. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh trusted learner network unconference was just in Phoenix about a month ago and there was a T3 day where they updated on the T3 projects and we talked about experience you and there was the announcement of the T3 International which uh includes Simone uh as sort of the representative of some of that work so a lot of great things happening in the T3 network uh in the states and really excited that this project gets to be 1 of them. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So I'll pause there and see what other questions we have and then I'll I'll turn it over to Danielle and she she's going to talk more about a tool that she's been the lead on that helps our partners navigate this whole kind of wicked uh world of of credent and wallets and lurs um but yeah any questions or comments people want to share. ✪
PL/T3: This good um yeah no the question actually back then was with respect to how is the uh conversation about skills um progressing to be able to identify them both from a from the perspective of identify skills associated with a training um and education that might be coming from formal entities like community colleges and training companies and things as well as internally professional development training that are going on within businesses and mapping those to the to their expression in skills-based credentials and um and the the. ✪
<eric_shepherd> Experience You provided some great high-tech solutions which was very impressive. Are you aware of anyone using Technology to let people uploaded paper qualifications/certificates to be recognized as an LER?
PL/T3: Comment there was really more than a question that um we finally been able to get engaged with the the US Chamber of Commerce is uh Talent pipeline program which brings in individuals in uh mostly medium-sized businesses uh into an academy kind of context to give them professional development around um better practices for running their businesses and 1 of the places that we're now being able to introduce that conversation about skills development and how it's recognized so that was a positive uh um uh advancement if you will of Industries getting connected to this conversation where it's already talked about a lot but doesn't necessarily get rendered well in terms of um their uh effective utilization of it and uh and and of course Danielle can talk more about the skills space hiring and advancement work that she would. ✪
PL/T3: Um that led to a number of reports that hopefully she could put in chat or something to give you some links to so that was with that is with respect to the um AI Project work on experience you um. ✪
PL/T3: Thing that we found that that um was jumped past to some extent in terms of learning uh was that the use of the AI and the like and the ability to integrate it into systems that generated or extracted out skills and the like was relatively straightforward relative to the unfamiliarity that most of the developers and Technical people in the companies uh had with the Json LD expression of this as a uh as a graph and as a consequence um there was more discussion around how to go about translating that information properly into a into a Json LD formatted credential that was computational. ✪
PL/T3: And I make 1 other comment which is 1 Project did extract skills from uh courses in uh Case Western reserves uh programs at uh University in the US. ✪
PL/T3: Their mechanism for deriving skills achieve because they only had inferential methods to do it was to look at the recurrence of the statement of skills that were in syllabi about what was supposed to be learned and when they occurred more than 3 or 5 3 to 5 times over the course of several semesters then they inferred that there's a reasonable likelihood that that skill might have been in fact learned and used that as their criteria for being able to pull it into a credential which I thought was an interesting workaround to that problem that's it thanks. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: I don't see anyone but. ✪
<eric_shepherd> TY
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Great and I'll I'll be able to respond in the chat now to I'm gonna stop my screen share and pass it over to Danielle um Danielle Saunders to talk about uh all she's involved in so many things so I feel like limiting her to just say she's gonna talk about this thing um is is not there but she's been really helping us with uh creating a a credential wallet comparison tool um and Phil mentioned uh some of the skills based hiring stuff that she's been involved in with the T3 Network as well uh but she's been an awesome partner uh so I'll stop screen share and hand it over to Danielle. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Thanks Colin and I wanted to make sure we uh caught Eric's question I don't know if I saw the answer um. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Just wanted to make sure we raised it which was about um calling if you are aware of anyone using technology to let people upload paper qualifications to be recognized as Kelly R. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah so the the example project that um Phil share was actually born from transcripts uh so I guess in that term uh if if you use your PDF transcript for that specific use case that's what it was mapping so it was it was parsing out the information from the PDF and then mapping it to um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: So those inferred skills from a a language model that they had actually built on the open syllabus project or built from the open syllabus project so they worked with a couple other universities to build that language model and then and then map again but the starting point was uh a PDF transcript and some of the other projects um I think. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: You know these groups talk about uploading PDFs in and then parsing them for key terms and then potentially attaching skills data for those skilled terms um there was a project or 2 that was that was doing something akin to that. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: It's it's so interesting I'm I'm glad you've been talking about that today call and there's so many different directions to take. ✪
<eric_shepherd> I will also take my question offline
Danielle_Saunders: There's so much work that was done in such a short amount of time um so I'm really glad um that you're able to share. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Yeah so thanks thanks for the intro the warm intro Colin I'm a consultant in skills-based Workforce Development work with um Colin and Naomi on what I'm gonna share with you today at the lab and also uh the chamber working with Phil Long Phil Barker Eric Shepard Demitri who are all here today hello. ✪
<eric_shepherd> :)
Danielle_Saunders: Wanted to uh give you an overview on this wallet comparison tool. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Which we've been creating for uh higher ed Partners we're working with at the lab. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Them answer questions around what. ✪
<colin_reynolds,_ed_design_lab> creynolds@eddesignlab.org for anyone that wants to connect on these projects and more
Danielle_Saunders: Is available in the market for purchase to help us um. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Communicate what our Learners can do and so there that's it's a multi-part solution infrastructure that is needed which includes issuing platforms wallets of course um Registries which Colin mentioned so it's a complex thing to explain to folks um but lately we've been finding that um getting down to the actual products that are available themselves helps make this more concrete conversation. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: And so um we have a set of uh wallets that we've looked at and kind of cross-checked across a set of principles that are intended to support skills-based hiring interoperability usability and accessibility so that uh people can get an idea of a little bit where the market is. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Uh so I'm going to share that. ✪
<pl/t3> @Eric The incarcerated people project led by WorkBay used input from both text and audio files to apply AI to for the purposes of extracting skills from those verbal or written descriptions of things they have learned to do.
Danielle_Saunders: In the chat and while I do that uh Colin. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Uh do you want me to go to the hour or break before the hour for any more business in this meeting. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Uh you can take it all the way all the way up to the hour I think with with Q&A too as long as as that sound good ittico. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: And Demetri are you in the queue. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): Uh find that mute button sorry about that uh. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): Yes I had a quick question about 1 of the early slides uh Colin where he showed you mapped uh a number of uh fundamental skills or something like that and I was wondering uh is. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): Is that available on the net it was definitely something we would love to take a look at. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): Always looking for skills schemas and credential schemas. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah I'll I'll share the whole deck here um and if there are other if there are specific slides or um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Docs that you want a closer look at I could probably share those with you directly I'm not sure that all of this is available on our website um but there are some samples there and I'd be happy to share more. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: So I see people jumping in the dock thank you. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: This is a live document uh we are continually adding updates as things uh change with these products everything is uh going pretty pretty fast so um again as an overview. ✪
<dmitri_z._(pres.)> @Colin - it's showing as access denied for me
Danielle_Saunders: Skills-based hiring in the mobility of Records so we were inspired by um jmf and Sharon lose a wallet Market scan we came out in 2022 and we are. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Um fully supporting the use of. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Standard so this is part of what we consider essential interoperability. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Uh and we all kind of skip down real quick to to to these principles we looked at a few categories of things that um a wallet probably should do. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: With a baseline description of a wallet is something that allows you to. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Store curate and share your records from it and I want to get I want to spend a bit of time uh with you all on that I actually love to have a discussion uh about uh clarifying exactly how we Define a wallet. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Add a couple of levels um but but in this first past what we came up with are a set uh this was all inspired by um the dcc's work uh in in in their um. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Uh creation of a list of requirements um for wallets and other sources we also Drew on um to to help uh start to create this kind of lightweight path here uh in which we're looking at um some basic adherence to um guidelines for accessibility but also uh not you know having too much jargon um looking at uh extra things that will help support Equity um and then it just overall usability um kind of using the principle here of if 1 critical uh step is broken that a user needs to complete then it's really not usable um so any any major breakage or anything that's just too difficult um is not very much a usable product for the broad audience that we are looking at uh should be um able to use wallets. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: And then skills-based hiring and advancement this gets into a lot of the fun um intriguing questions unfolding and how we capture and display skills data but at a minimum we want this to be able to um show what skills data is uh contained in records um kind of unpack that a little bit facilitate it in some way if it does more that's even better um and we also expect that uh someone should be able to receive credentials and then curate a set of them. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: A bundle or whatever we want to call it a verifiable pre presentation um and be able to share that and I understand those are different things but they're different options uh be able to share that out to um recipient like an employer. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Um interoperability uh we wanted to make sure that the wallet allows uh the credentials to most importantly be imported and exported out uh in in kind of a a native format encoding so that there's no loss of data um as it comes in and leaves um so ideally it would be supporting anything that's a verifiable credential uh open badge version 3 crb2 um you know this is what we'd really like to see. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Um and then of course these uh great um uh privacy and and control features for the the user which put the user really in charge of receiving and sharing um. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Their records of course self assertions are an important part of this work uh to be able to include things that may not have been received by the learner as a credential but which are important for them to communicate and include in a bundle um and then of course uh verification should be supported which should also include subject verification so this would help you receive uh if you know if you're uh receiving a credential then it should be checked to see if that credential belongs to you. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: And so um there's additional features here which just make things even more exciting and uh um had functionality for the learner to be able to um use their records in new ways use them in a talent Marketplace um there's more here and hopefully as time goes on things in the bonus section will come up into these other sections um as as things that we expect and so I'll scroll up here. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Got a set of vendors at the top here their product name in teal along this line uh just an overall statement about the wallet and the it's how it uh kind of aligns or does not align to the principles here uh basically how the business model operates who who is being charged um whether it's in production or in development or in Pilot and then a rough assessment of how it meets these criteria uh under the interoperability 1 we look at uh which standards and protocols it's uh using or says it's using. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Any bonus features and whether we uh did actually were able to look at the wallet. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Um and it Scrolls to the left so you can scroll or sorry to the right and see more uh wallets and I'll note that not every wallet that you may expect to be on here is on here yet and that gets into the discussion that I'm hoping to have with you all um in the next 10 or so minutes which is. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: The way we're defining wallet. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: And again that minimum definition was around it being able to store share um you kind of store curate and share records uh but when you really get into the specifics I think there are some some cutoff points like ideally it can do all those record types perhaps more but what should it do at minimum right now to be called a wallet. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Then what would indicate that it's not a wallet that it's significantly below the kind of functionality that we would expect from a wallet to be considered not a wallet because there's such a spectrum. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Of what is implemented and ready to go now and there's. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Progress in full implementation of wallet features then would make it easy to say okay these are wallets these are on these are not wallets these are not on it's really quite complicated so um I think this group is fantastic for being able to to discuss this. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: So that's the question I'd love to pose to you all. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): No I think I asked my question before so I'll go ahead. ✪
<pl/t3> @Ildiko what is partial sharing mean to you?
<dmitri_z._(pres.)> I think Ildiko is talking about Selective Disclosure
Danielle_Saunders: I'll I'll do them in order so yes Demetri just said partial sharing that makes me think of selective and Progressive disclosure. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: If does that sound right to you where someone is able to either uh uh share only a partial uh part of their record with a relying party or uh share it uh some first and then as a later stage happens more of the record or all of the records later. ✪
Dmitri_Z._(pres.): I think it'll be I think that's a question for you is that what you meant. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Yeah that's a question for you does that sound like what you're asking about. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Yes so short answer yes absolutely that would be fantastic we want to see while to be able to support that that would be sharing in part or potentially as a as a derivation also gets into where you might be able to share a computation from your records but not the actual uh data itself for example age as the as the computed like a binary on did you have the right age. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Yes I think that would be ideal um. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Not necessarily a ton of implementation available yet uh we'd love to see more so and the second Point too um on holder can decline that was a really interesting 1 um. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: I think again it's it's all a great discussion but uh if. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Anyone has really strong opinions about that it would be great to to hear more from you um it seemed like a good uh feature but again you know if you decline to accept it in the wallet then it may expire uh not sorry let me not use that word the issuer May no longer be offering it at a certain time so you may not have access to it right there's lots of interesting implications you don't have to share it even if you do accept it uh love to have a longer conversation on that. ✪
<ildiko_mazar> I suppose the crux of the matter here is that not all credentials are equal.
PL/T3: I jumped in the queue I don't know if anybody else is on there. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: I think I see Susan might be 1 spot before you. ✪
Susan_Stroud: Thank you um I'm Susan stra from Life equipped and I have 2 quick questions hopefully 1 is maybe a comment around um Linux open Wallet foundation and the work that they're doing to create a wallet registry there's a lot of um overlap in terms of some of the things that they're looking for there's some things you guys are looking for that they're not um and there might be a deeper level of review that they're planning to approach so might be interesting to you know understand what synergies may exist there and. ✪
Susan_Stroud: That you know is confusing to me is like how you get onto this form what the eligibility intake you know onboarding looks like for the wallets that may want to get onto your list here as compared to you know the process with let's say open Wallet Foundation which is. ✪
Susan_Stroud: Open for anyone to have their wallet assessed so just wanted to. ✪
Susan_Stroud: Understand that process a little bit more and how that collaboration may be coming along. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: I think that would be a great conversation love uh love it if you point me to um who we could talk to on that um if that's you or someone else um love to talk about any uh uh collaboration or or work that we can share um in terms of the process for uh getting onto this list it's really just reaching out. ✪
<pl/t3> I have the email of the some of the OWF team
Danielle_Saunders: To us and there's a form you can uh submit um and and we just work 1-on-1 with the vendors and have an ongoing conversation um it's very much a a back and forth um where we want to. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: Um make it as as collaborative as possible with everyone. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: And I'll add to that uh I sort of have an eye on at least subscribe to the open wall foundations um. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: What sort of essentially and. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Context for the 1 that Danielle and I'm talking about here is for us-based higher education uh providers specifically so I think that's the context at least from which this 1 should be viewed is that the the realities around their Learning Management systems or student information systems and things that are already happening on campus sort of Drive their ability to even think about approaching a wallet many of them feel responsibility to make a wallet recommendation or provide a wallet for their students as opposed to uh the idea that their students would have their own wallet that they're then bringing to the university or education provider so I think that I that context might be helpful at least in determining how this Tool uh supports specific Partners versus like how you mentioned the overall Foundation I think has more of a a Global Perspective and really like a universal adoption and Universal implement. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: To it but like Danielle said there anyone can reach out to us and we'd be happy to have the conversation and add them to the list uh as appropriate and there should be in that that doc um a link yeah I think Daniel highlighted it right there to to complete the form and get that process going with us. ✪
PL/T3: Yeah just a quick comment um the the notion of um receiving the ability of an individual to decline for example a transcript or something or a degree uh assertion from their institution uh at least in the US uh the the student or the learner does not have to accept that that doesn't mean that that the institution hasn't done the work necessary and evaluated that person's uh contributions in their courses in the light to make their award but the but the student um now graduate does not have to accept that if they don't want to. ✪
<deb_everhart_(credential_engine)> thanks all!
PL/T3: And uh and that leads to the second comment with respect to selective disclosure it's very new to most of the folks out there I think and um we've had conversations with Acro which is the registrar and admissions officers associations in the us um about uh signing individual class uh um uh classes that are in or courses that are in a transcript as opposed to signing the overall transcript document um such that an individual might therefore be able to selectively pull out verifiable course uh uh information from a transcript and use that in a verifiable presentation sent to an employer but with the concepts that we would like to ensure that the individuals receiving it know this is a partial representation of that individual's overall transcript and I'll stop there thank you. ✪
Colin_Reynolds,_Ed_Design_Lab: Yeah I just want to Echo the thanks to everyone here I mean we I feel like we are even able to have this conversation because of all of the years of of work that this group has done and um all the reports and and projects that have been put out there were really want this to be additive and we're really trying to support education and employer partners that are hearing about ler's hearing about wallets trying to make decisions about systems and tools to to implement so uh appreciate the time to to present some of our work happy to talk about it more with anyone here but just want to say thank you to everyone here for helping uh Advance this work and and bring these conversations together. ✪
Danielle_Saunders: That's a fabulous call out Colin and uh we I know we would love to continue this conversation so um please do reach out I'll put my email in the chat here. ✪