The W3C Credentials Community Group

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W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference

Transcript for 2024-05-21

Agenda
https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?hdr-1-name=subject&hdr-1-query=%5BAGENDA&period_month=May&period_year=2024&index-grp=Public__FULL&index-type=t&type-index=public-credentials&resultsperpage=20&sortby=date
Organizer
Mike Prorock, Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang
Scribe
Our Robot Overlords
Present
Kimberly Linson, Harrison Tang, Nis Jespersen , Jennie M, Tim Bloomfield, Erica Connell, Kaliya Young, Brandi Delancey, Joe Andrieu, Mirko, Simone Ravaoli, pauld gs1, Alex H, Leo, Dmitri Zagidulin, Will Abramson, Kerri Lemoie, Mike Xu, Hiroyuki Sano, Japan, MEDBEN, Benjamin Young, James Chartrand, Nate Otto, PL/T3, Jeff O / HumanOS, David I. Lehn
Audio Log
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Harrison_Tang: Hello everyone uh welcome to this week's w3c meeting today we're excited to have Miracle Lucy Clea uh and Torsten to actually talk about credentials format comparison um but before then just want to quickly go through the.
Harrison_Tang: So first of all just a quick reminder on the code of ethics and professional conduct uh just want to make sure that uh we hold constructive conversations and respectful conversations here.
Harrison_Tang: Next a quick intellectual property note uh anyone can participate in these calls however all substantive contributions to the ccg work items must be member of the ccg with full IP agreements signed.
Harrison_Tang: So you have any questions in regards to getting your w3c account or the agreement uh just let any of the cultures know.
Harrison_Tang: Next are these meetings are automatically recorded and transcribed and uh we will publish uh these meeting minutes and all the recordings and video recordings in the next uh 1 or 2 days.
Harrison_Tang: Uh we use GG chat to cue the speakers during the calls as well as to take minutes and you can type in Q Plus to add yourself to the queue or cue minus to remove.
Harrison_Tang: So just want to take a quick moment for the introductions and reintroductions uh if you're new to the community or you haven't been active and want to re-engage uh please uh just feel free to unmute and introduce yourself.
Harrison_Tang: All right I think it's mostly familiar faces.
Harrison_Tang: Uh next uh any announcements or reminders.
Kaliya Young: Hi folks um.
Kaliya Young: Good news is we got um registration for our.
Kaliya Young: Iiw inspired event in Africa live uh so if you want to join us in september in South Africa or hosting uh did unconference Africa uh september 20.
Kaliya Young: 5 To 27 um I'll put a link and registration's open and so our sponsorships so if you are doing business in the region and want to erase your profile it's a great way to do it and.
Kaliya Young: Digital identity unconference Europe is coming up in about a month uh June 18 to 20 in Zurich and also post a link for that.
Harrison_Tang: Thank you thanks.
Erica Connell: Yeah hi everybody uh just a note that uh rebooting the web of trust will be convening in October the 7th through the 11th in um Southern California and Ventura just north of Los Angeles so uh mark your calendars and more information on Eventbrite I will put the link in the chat thanks that's it.
Harrison_Tang: Any other announcements or reminders.
<econnell> www.RWOT13.eventbrite.com
Harrison_Tang: Thanks a lot.
Harrison_Tang: Any other announcements or reminders.
Harrison_Tang: All right any updates on the work items.
Harrison_Tang: All right last call is for introductions announcements reminders and work items.
Harrison_Tang: Let's get to the main agenda so today uh the main agenda is on credentials format comparison and we're very glad to have uh Miracle Lucy uh in Korea to kind of join us uh to present their work.
Harrison_Tang: so miracle.
Kaliya Young: Yep that would be great I think that that makes sense in terms of the the the flow to go from simpler to more complex.
Kaliya Young: Um okay I.
Kaliya Young: Uh okay I'm.
Kaliya Young: I would like okay uh oh Google Chrome would like to record this computer screens audio I guess so.
Kaliya Young: Sorry it's asking me to do things I didn't really know.
Harrison_Tang: Maybe miracle if you could uh just kind of introduce yourself a little bit I know you're doing uh great work uh that uh other foundation so.
Kaliya Young: All righty great thank you so much um so.
Kaliya Young: I'm gonna share out this paper and the previous paper that Lucy and I wrote um called standards based digital credential flavors explained uh we were sponsored to do this work by.
Kaliya Young: DHI the crown Corporation for the country of Bhutan that's led the development of their um.
Kaliya Young: Digital credential um system.
Kaliya Young: And we work with companies to do sponsored work like this where.
Kaliya Young: Information would be good for the whole market and folks um.
Kaliya Young: Pay us to do.
Kaliya Young: The research and and share it.
Kaliya Young: Um you can see um this was the purpose of the project to provide a simplified but Tech technically accurate overview of the main flavors of C based digital credentials for humans in the market today to inform policy business and Technical decision makers on the fence regarding what to use for their implementations um the purpose of of why we did this and we did not um we did not choose to focus on every possible flavor Under the Sun we focused on what was what was in market and being used.
Kaliya Young: So the first version of the paper was written when Lucy and I worked for the coid credentials initiative under Linux Foundation Public Health.
Kaliya Young: In 2001 and covered.
Kaliya Young: Uh 4 major flavors and took them through a journey of the life cycle and sort of articulated how each flavor was different in in each stage of the life cycle.
Kaliya Young: We evolved this paper.
Kaliya Young: For the next version in 23 and we um split it up into some new sections the top section cover data formats so Json Json LD and core.
Kaliya Young: And then section covered different cryptographic securing methods JWT cwt and data Integrity proof.
Kaliya Young: And then we also went through some key capabilities like selective disclosure and explained how those worked along with subject holder binding and Hardware binding.
Kaliya Young: Then we went through the same steps that we had in the first paper sort of the life cycle of a credential from issue to.
Kaliya Young: Covering 4 different flavors and then at the very end we touch on 2 of the flavors that we dropped from this paper the a non-red flow and um what was called.
Kaliya Young: Jason ldz KP with BBs plus called BBS with data Integrity signatures and 2 New Kids on the Block we touched on um.
Kaliya Young: Authentic chain data containers acdt and gordian envelopes and then we discussed how most of zks is.
Kaliya Young: That are in the real world or.
Kaliya Young: Pseudo zks were statements are signed but the actual cryptographic sort of math properties aren't happening so that's the difference in the 2 table of contacts.
Kaliya Young: I thought I'd.
Kaliya Young: Walk through sort of some of the content of the paper.
Kaliya Young: Is this difference between Json and Json LD.
Kaliya Young: On the left hand side is Json it's just name value Pairs and on the right is Json LD that has um an app context file that points to schema.org and you can see below is.
Kaliya Young: The reference in this is drawn directly from the schema.org um.
Kaliya Young: Website and the.
Kaliya Young: The context um sort of map for birth date in this schema is the schema.org birthday right so it's a way to reference.
Kaliya Young: Using Uris specific data fields so that meaning can be determined and 1 of the things is also that provides the potential to do language mapping so you could.
Kaliya Young: Have assert that this is a birth date in Chinese or Hindi or Thai or whatever language you want and.
Kaliya Young: And you.
Kaliya Young: Could figure out that it was referencing a birth date so it's it's good for the.
Kaliya Young: Multilingual World we're moving into.
Kaliya Young: Then this is an example of severe so we just took the Seymour that was on the left on the previous screen and translated into sibur and so this is basically all the words in the that's in the paper because it would be lots of numbers if we kept going with it but it gives you kind of a tangible example of these 3 different data formats that are being used in credentials.
Kaliya Young: And then.
Kaliya Young: And we have.
Kaliya Young: Happening infographic that we made um.
Kaliya Young: And so I just thought a good.
Kaliya Young: Thing to.
Kaliya Young: Share would be some of would be these infographics for us to look at we did Json signed with a JWT.
Kaliya Young: The whole thing is signed all of all together.
Kaliya Young: There is no selective disclosure capability.
Kaliya Young: On the right hand side you have Json LD with data Integrity proofs very similarly the whole all the information of the credential is signed together external link to go and be able to do.
Kaliya Young: Um resolution of what the.
Kaliya Young: Names in the name value pairs actually means.
Kaliya Young: Then we have the 2 formats that supports ISO MDOC mdl.
Kaliya Young: Um basically that the top is the the sort of what happens with the issuance of the credential and the bottom is what happens with the presentation of the credential so that um.
Kaliya Young: The individual is able to share some of the values and and doesn't have to share all of them.
Kaliya Young: Um with estie JWT hashes of the values are signed and disclosure object are given to the individual and when they share those disclosure objects.
Kaliya Young: Combined with the hashes the information becomes viewable by.
Kaliya Young: Verifier so these are 2 different strategies that are quite similar to achieve the same thing which is selective disclosure.
Kaliya Young: And then finally the infographic uh included the 2 pets that were in the earlier paper data Integrity with BBs Plus.
Kaliya Young: Of showing that you each value is signed separately and that the holder can.
Kaliya Young: Name value Pairs and the signatures.
Kaliya Young: And a non-red also um has a similar architecture.
Kaliya Young: So those are the formats covered in the paper and um maybe that's all I have to share and um I'm happy to take a few questions if people have any before or we can just go on to next doesn't matter to me let me stop sharing I'm not sure their stop sharing okay great.
Harrison_Tang: Any questions on the what Kia has presented.
<kaliya_identity_woman> Here is where you get the paper - https://medium.com/@identitywoman-in-business/new-paper-and-infographic-on-flavors-of-digital-credentials-released-b9b6ec5b95af
Harrison_Tang: Yes looks great.
Harrison_Tang: So any comments or questions.
Harrison_Tang: So a quick question um so what's next like uh what's the next phase other than like Gathering inputs and then like complete this further what's the next phase phase on this project.
Harrison_Tang: Got it thank you.
Harrison_Tang: And do you have a I know this is to do but do you have a hunch on what are the.
Harrison_Tang: uh for.
Harrison_Tang: Mats or uh protocols that that that has the biggest market share were poised to uh to have the biggest market share.
Harrison_Tang: No I agree with your comments I do think Simplicity helps uh adoptions as well so thank you.
Kaliya Young: I think that I you know I.
Kaliya Young: Pretty clear we're going to live in a multi.
Kaliya Young: Um there are really legitimate reasons for a different choices.
Kaliya Young: And I think yeah so.
Kaliya Young: I I.
Kaliya Young: I don't think.
Kaliya Young: 1 Format to rule them all I do think that we will have several formats that have different trade-offs.
Kaliya Young: For different reasons and that's fine.
Harrison_Tang: Great um any questions in regards to any of the formats or.
Harrison_Tang: Technology or the comparisons.
Nate Otto: Hey thanks this is a really cool resource um first of all um I'm curious about the.
Nate Otto: Internals of the claim structure as well um.
Nate Otto: What space does this tool have to talk about the different types of claims that might be made in various different um profiles is that a direction that you're interested in exploring or is that.
Nate Otto: Up way too much and would be out of scope or unmanageable.
Nate Otto: Sure so a lot of the um comparison that we're seeing here is at the kind of the envelope of the uh.
Nate Otto: Credential not about what.
Nate Otto: Specific claims the issuers are making about holders or recipients um are you interested in covering.
Nate Otto: Specific claims like uh you know for example uh whether achievements were made skills were held birth dates uh degrees.
Nate Otto: That type of level of.
Nate Otto: Content in this comparison or is that out of scope.
Harrison_Tang: Simone you're next.
Harrison_Tang: Any other questions.
Harrison_Tang: Last call for questions.
Harrison_Tang: All right well thank you thank you Mo thank you can uh Clea for coming on and presenting your work this is definitely very interesting and definitely a very important work to uh showcase all the different options and help users uh or uh the decision makers uh make a more informed decisions on what the appropriate Technologies to use so thanks a lot.
Harrison_Tang: All right so I think this concludes uh this week's w3c ccg meeting and uh.
Harrison_Tang: Will see you next week thanks a lot.