The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

Go Back

Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2019-04-02

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Sorry, problems connecting
Lionel Wolberger: +1

Topic: IP notes, call notes,

Lionel Wolberger: ... Intro, re-intro, announce, reminder, action items...
Lionel Wolberger: ... Review DID progress for the AC meeting
Lionel Wolberger: ... Heather survey results
Lionel Wolberger: ... Code of conduct
Lionel Wolberger: ... And conflict management
Lionel Wolberger is scribing.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Menlo Park, CA. Background in SW engineering and digital health.
... worked in startups. following blockchain for 1.5 year, DID for 10 month
Heather Vescent: FYI - this is Karn Verma
... interested as I see future applications around patient data, doctor identity, health care in general
... That was Karn Derma
Karn Verma
Lionel Wolberger: Heather +1
Heather Vescent: And Karn helped on the CCG survey analysis & report!
Reintro: Kaliya Identity Woman, just back from India research on their National ID system
... Run the IIW, 28th one coming up beginning of May
... in progress now Decentralized Identity Foundation, organizational development
Focus on communicating these activities to other businesses

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy:
Dedicated DID calls every Thursday, zoom room
... 1300-1400 Pacific, and DID resolution 1400-1500 Pacific
1300-1400 DID Spec Pacific, and DID resolution 1400-1500 Pacific
... NExt week Quebec April 7-9 W3C meeting
... IIW coming up
... DID One Day hackathon and credential exchange
Kim Hamilton Duffy: That W3C link is password protected, my W3C cred didnt open it
Heather Vescent: Link to the Amazon book:
Book! Kaliya & Heather wrote Comprehensive Guide to Self-Sovereign Identity
... includes core building blocks: wallet, agent, verifier code, issuer code
... a look at ledger projects
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Lionel -- good point, you probably need AC creds to see it
... a list of companies, a look at the standards shaping the space
... a look at the organizations and where you can get involved.
... Kaliya encourages everyone to buy a copy and write a review!
Drummond Reed: Link?
Drummond Reed: [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Heather Vescent: It's on pre-order, Kindle, if you have any issues, let Heather/Kaliya know
Drummond Reed: Thanks!
... share on LinkedIn, Twitter
... Thanks to the contributing authors Kim Hamilton Duffy (Author), Markus Sabadello (Author), Dmitri Zagidulin (Author), Juan Caballero (Author)

Topic: Action Items

I will be sure to mention the book on the HL Identity WG
... CCG call connection problems action: chairs action: review next meeting: next
Heather Vescent: Thank you @Vipunsun!
... no one complained, so the call-in issues seem better
Manu Sporny: Since we did nothing, this was fixed by those magic internet elves
... DID methods in the registry without associated DID specifications
... making good progress
Markus Sabadello: Dom, no response. Might be deprecated.
... UPOrt deprecated this method but has introduced other methods
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Uport, might be useful to mark this one as deprecated, since people may be working with it
Joe Andrieu: +1 To retaining uport as "deprecated"
Jonathan Holt: Version control issues; machine readable
Joe Andrieu: +1 To add version to registry
... For version control, implement a better syntax around changes and whether it has been deprecated
Manu Sporny: Specification should have version in the title
... JSON-LD can support the other request, this is a respec feature
... This requires work by the people writing the specifications, not everyone does that
Drummond Reed: +1 To adding that note to the registry instructions.
ACTION: add note to did method registry process about versioning method specs in a way that bubbles up to the registry

Topic: DID Report out for AC Meeting

Sound is garbled for me, you too? <<
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Yes
(Internet elves got mad at us again)
Dan Burnett: What is the timing that we expect for this?
... we need to know for when the TAG is likely to need this document.
... W3C AC meeting is next Sunday/Monday in Quebec
Drummond Reed: Kim is breaking up
(Crimson and clover)
Breaking up pretty bad
Joe Andrieu: (Over and over, indeed)
Drummond Reed: Manu sounds good
W3C goal: report out all the progress we are doing
... progress towards the working group
... not clear who is waiting on whom
.. We have the DID spec peeting this Thursday, that is great fast progress....
... Joe/Kim will clarify use cases
... Dan mentioned, the DID explainer may need some more outcomes
... Manu, what is your view on DID progress in terms of what will the W3C AC be most interested in
Heather Vescent: Is sip or call in better audio?
Lionel Wolberger: +++1
@Heathervescent I think the issue is with the call bridge so neither is better
Heather Vescent: Ah, thanks @Justin_R.
Manu Sporny: From W3C perspective, we have no info
... it will likely be discussed at the AC meeting (why they invited you, Kim)
... then will give us directives
... Manu put in PRs to simplify the introduction
... to be dealt with at the Thursday meeting
... where do we draw the line on DID methods? Is DID Facebook allowed? Is DID Web allowed?
... do we commit and allow only decentralized DLTs?
... Re: ABNF and Service Description, good progress with MS and DR
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Is W3C waiting for DID explainer, Use Cases,
Drummond Reed: BTW, I am happy to help with the DID explainer. Who is leading that?
Manu Sporny: May want to check with Wendy. Likely, they are not waiting since we submitted charter and supporting documentation (a spec).
... This work is cleaning all that up, but that is not required for a working group to be formed
... So move those things forward, but they are not gating items
Dan Burnett: Drummond, Joe and I are doing explainer. The only issue for us has been the recent discussions on DID vs. DID-URL, URLs, etc.
Drummond Reed: A new paper started at the last RWoT can help
Drummond Reed: This Thursday quite important, you are all invited
Dan Burnett: The DID explainer does not 'compete' with the other docs.
... It answers very specific TAG questions, it's not a general tutorial, more like a TAG Q&A (a TAGAQ)

Topic: Survey results

Drummond Reed: Got it, Burn, it sounds very complementary to "Understanding DIDs in Greater Depth" that we started at RWOT. Link to that in-progress doc:
Heather Vescent: Shoutout to Karn Verma, he volunteered and came through !
Origin: In December the chairs asked for feedback, so Heather offered to run this survey.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Great work Heather and Varn!
Heather Vescent: Setting the stage
... reporting aggregated and long term results of the survey
... there were 34 opinions collected
Kim Hamilton Duffy: +1 To not shooting messengers. :) respectful dialog please, which I will aggressively enforce
... Key points
... (1) there is a core group, and relative outsiders from outside North America
... Re: Inclusion and Diversity
... much of the work has been technical, some not technical, some effort to recruit more people
... reality is, we are a very technical group doing technical things, and it is intimidating to non-technical people
... North America focus, NA time zones and NA perspectives
... non-NA people feel this bias more keenly and feel a difficulty contributing
Richard Varn: Thanks to Heather for taking the initiative
... I am an example of someone who wanted to get inolved, and volutneering really helped me understand what is going on and how I can participate
Heather Vescent: Varn=Karn
... quantitative and qualitative feedback
... [disclaimer: Karn personal view, I do think I understand what the group is doing,
... I hvae this 50 feet view
... on the other hand the website and materials of the group are at 2 feet
.. And it is difficult for someone like me to discern what is really going on
.. A missing "ten foot" POV
... process, roadmap and ideas for the future
... Most respondents were not confident about how the work was done/managed.
... However there was a group of responses that were confident about the process.
... Participation: limited by a lack of clarity
... Priorities: mainly technical
Drummond Reed: Note: I have to drop now to meet with the BC Gov team. They send their best to everyone.
Manu Sporny: Thanks for doing this! Having the feedback is great. I suggest opening the document for comments.
... I find some of the findings quite sobering, certainly not 'happy' about them but glad to have the feedback
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Do we need to find a way to allow people to give anonymous feedback?
Christopher Allen: My question is more about what happens with priorities if DID moves to a WG?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Some things here the chairs suspected already, but some we need more information and clarifications
... would like a parallel track, what people are thinking about
... perhaps enable anonymous feedback? or a session to discuss this in more depth?
... What can the ctee do to address this feedback
Heather Vescent: We authors made a conscious decision to *not* make recommendations, as this community is deeply collaborative
Christopher Allen: Heather, a lot of the priorities are DID related, but we likely be passing them on to a DID WG. so I'd be interested in knowing what non-DID items should be priority?
... Some of your questions are addressed so let us continue
... Survey in 4 sections
... 1 on how the CCG is working
... a lot of activity done on DID spec, technical discussions and fostering the community to have conversation about this
... let's honor and acknowledge the accomplishment, that this is the core group driving this spec and technology forward. This is a *positive*
... Let's highlight one or two items in the report
Karn: This section, to uncover roadblocks to participating and contributing to the on-going work.
... how it works
... 27/44 do not know how it works
... Roadmap: Most participants felt that there is a lack of a roadmap and a clear set of achievable goals.
... two major roadblocks: (1) funding (2) understanding previous and current work
... this ties into visibility issues
Karn: More moderation to avoid personal pitches
Manu Sporny: +1 -- Let's continue this on the next call, this is important, we don't want to rush through it.
... Weekly calls: attendance numbers on there
... people find the Agenda, action items, accountability Working well
... released the raw data via a link
@Burn agreed, let's banish JSON-LD ;)
Heather Vescent: Re: the priorities for 2019
... technical suggestions outweigh non-technical, 3:1
Dan Burnett: Now now, Justin, that's not what I said.
... this is ground zero of the discussion
... there is some call for non-technical information and to involve them
... but this community doesn't do well in selcoming those people, involving them and harnessing their skills
... about 15 people said they were interested in volunteering, about half put in their contact info
... but we need a gentle onboarding curve for new people
... cannot just throw them into things
Lionel Wolberger: +1 Volunteering and getting involved is a great way to get into things
Heather Vescent: Q-
Heather Vescent: A critical community discussion on this divide between technical activity and non-technical people wanting in
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Do suggest continuing discussion of this feedback, before deciding what to do next
Bye bye