The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2019-07-02

Kim Hamilton Duffy:
Samantha Mathews Chase is scribing.

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Intro James KP from Kaiser Permanente
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Intro Shivam Sethi
Shivam Sethi: I am Shivam, working as cyber security consultant
... used to work w/ drummond at OASIS, CCG is first effort back at standards, interested in identity, mostly working but trying to contribute soon

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

IEEE dawn of internet layer and the role of DID deadline is SOON july 4th or 6th
Drummond Reed: Doesn't need to be complete, just has to be a sensible draft
Drummond Reed: Well put, Sam
Kim Hamilton Duffy:
Kim Hamilton Duffy: No DID call this Thursday, it's after this meeting
Kim Hamilton Duffy:
Sept 1 in Vienna
Kim Hamilton Duffy: RWOT 9 Sep 3-6, lots of people training between vienna and prague... FUN
.... Topic paper discounts, get them in
Chris Webber: The activity hub community is in lots of Open source projects, mostly Mastodon, they want to have a meetup right after Rebooting, maybe plan to stay the weekend
Kim Hamilton Duffy: TPAC 2019-sep 16-20, no CCG breakout session, but Dan has registered us for a DID working group session
Shivam Sethi: Hi Guys I am not able to connect Could someone please help me or provide me a number
...there will be some people from the CCG group going
Bill Barnhill: @Chris FYI I had been exploring adding DID support to Mastodon, so if remote attendance is possible with that meeting I’m definitely interested
Manu Sporny: Activity Pub, dec messaging, deployed our signatures, overlap with secure data hubs spec, using this as an opportunity to get our communities collaborating together more
Kim Hamilton Duffy:
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Mydata 2019, Sep ??
Markus Sabadello: Is there a webpage about the ActivityPub meeting ?
Kaliya Young: IIW is Oct 1-3
Kaliya Young: We need sponsors!

Topic: Progress on Action Items

Progress on Action items
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Updating ABNF for DIDs #57 (
Issue 57, added it because it looked like it was ready to close
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Issue 57, manu can you speak to it, or marcus? Any comments?
Shivam Sethi: Hi Guys please provide any link so that i can connect using my system
Shivam Sethi: I am not able to connect via phoneline
Marcus: there is another open PR, it's closed for now
Manu Sporny: Sorry semi, unprepared, theres an issue on the VC data model spec
....trying to wrap up, had a pr for extension registry
Markus Sabadello: ABNF PR has been merged: Older one by dmitriz is still open but I think has been superceded:
... background, wanted these to merge, haven't got enough reviews
...the verifiable credential spec is blocked, this is high priority, need 1 or 2 more reviews, needs to be a work item
Kim Hamilton Duffy: On the code owner I see only Manu, any other editors we can add to the VC registry? doesn't need to be solved now but that's the one other thing,
...christopher, Joe, Matt Stone and Me, we all need to review it and we also need an editor, Manu we will follow up over mailing list
Daniel Buchner: Hey, just want to touch on, when we were in denver talked with drummond about data store, the concept of such, not sure if everyone familiar between Aries and identity hub group, as of this last month reached an agreement that Aries wasn't doing the same thing as hubs at all,
That aries was a key manager and powerful agent, and the hubwas more about secure access of data we get to this point, we are realizing we are more aligned than not, we have momentum but need to work together, almost never seen a succesful server implementation come out of the W3C
...Would love people's feedback
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Hubs vs agents one problem is that many haven't seen the outcome of that so probably a lot of people haven't seen that information the goal of whatever we do here is that we want it to be complimentary
...should keep conversation going
Dmitri Zagidulin: Want to address daniel's comment, for those who haven't seen, context is discussion got started by an email about an early in progress data hubs spec, which daniel pointed out hey the aires and hyperledger folks were already working on this we don't want extra steps, but
Drummond Reed: I strongly disagree that DIF is a "fork" of W3C. DIF was formed to tackle work that wasn't even going on at W3C.
Kaliya Young: This forums - both DIF and Aires are writing CODE - W3C does specs
Kim Hamilton Duffy: There is certainly a middle path, both sides have merits, probably the organizers of all these communities owe a better communicated vision
Adrian Gropper: This is a primary interest, i have found it incredibly difficult to follow the differences between the DIF and Aries, would like to stress the need for us to dedicate a call and get allthe people wanting to do something about this to talk about it in one place t one time, I do't see any reason to have competing solutions, it's too early days
Samantha Mathews Chase: Keen interest in solving by having a cred that should work across pods. Shift convo from hypothetical arguments to a concrete use case [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Samantha Mathews Chase: Focus on interoperability around a specific use case [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Adrian Gropper: The HIE of One project has been a consistent use case for self-sovereign agents
Bill Barnhill: +1 For concrete real world case studies of identity ecosystem standards adoption and implementation
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1, My opinion only, not Digital Bazaar
Manu Sporny: I believe dmitri is speaking on his own behalf, that is not the opinion of digital bazaar, that's at a higher level, its not what the spec is about, as daniel mentioned, I spoke with him with many of the people close to the subject, this seems out of the blue but oit's taken years, we have taken a lot of the information and we are absolutely trying to collaborate and bring this specs together in areas of agreement, better to focus on where we are [CUT]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: I can't hear
I can't hear very well
Heather Vescent: There is a child making noise in the back.
Manu Sporny: Officially, as a representative of Digital Bazaar, we are supportive of DIF being able to do things and work in ways that W3C cannot... and that's useful to the ecosystem... we need to work together... same goes for Hyperledger Aries, RWoT, IIW, etc.
Bill Gebert: I heard two things that really could come together, talk about masodon looking into DID spec, heard a perceived need for a concrete real world example, wouldn't officially be a part of CCG but could be informed by our work
...Please reach out if interested
Kim Hamilton Duffy: #18 JWT crypto suite spec
...Looking for someone in DIF community to do this, i can at least help with examples, assigned it to myself and reach out to DIF and find good examples to refer to
...Lastly, ease of writing spec, wanted to flag purposing closing it out, added documentation, write spec text just in markdown
...Caveat, it's not a silver bullet, had questions about metadata tags, looked through ccg spec and realized we aren't consistent, things don't have to be perfect, bikeshed does a decent job, good way to start, good for notes and commentaryy, give it a try

Topic: Amira

Kim Hamilton Duffy: We don't need to take much time to segue into the DID WG Charter call. We can keep that as short as you want. [scribe assist by Drummond Reed]
Joe Andrieu: The repo part of it, very cool kim thanks for Bikeshed
Joe Andrieu: Amira is about an immigrant worker achieving her goal of writing code in America through the process of SSI
Joe Andrieu: ?
...this is our first release for feedback
Sorry i keep getting booted off of IRC and missing huge chunks of text
Kim Hamilton Duffy: You aren't editing the html file, you are using a bikeshed file
Joe Andrieu: There are a bunch of edits in html i need to move over, what do i do to trigger from the bikeshed
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Those are in the instructions, I haven't done any pooling aorund that yet
Running bikeshed is a python command, not an ideal end solution for people who dont want to use command line tools
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Might also want to add some informtion or pull requests to guide people to the right information
Adrian Gropper: @Bbarnhill what's your email?
Bill Barnhill:
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Let's see what feedback we get
Christopher Allen: Advantages of editing markdown is that it's easier to write, lots of tools, easier to see revisions and what they were about, I'd like to see us continue trying the markdown thing
Bill Barnhill: Planning on doing a quick run at AWS lambda Bikeshed pipeline this coming week. Notes on approach are in my last comment in the issue. Main problem is no round tripping from HTML back to Bikeshed for those who want to edit HTML directly my Q item, question for the commuity, Amira 1.0 has gone through some review, it does inform things like the BTCR method and other use cases, there is talk of taking it to a 2.0 stage? it best to have people in the community review or if we should take it to another level
Christopher Allen: Inviting people to say "i think it would be cool if..."
Adrian Gropper: About amira, i would like to advance work on reputation, maybe starting with a topic paper at rebooting and chat at IIW, curious as to what extent the Amira use case wants to incorporate reputation or not
Samantha Mathews Chase: Now would be a good time to peer review before going into reputation [scribe assist by Kim Hamilton Duffy]
Kaliya Young: I would recommend actually getting a group that actually works with refugees and marginalized groups to review.
Kaliya Young: The fact that is not being spoken is the contributions and perspective the one woman of color who worked on this were actively pushed out of the paper.
Joe Andrieu: We are open for feedback now, let me know if you have a more formal process in mind, and yes to Agropper we are open to discussing reputation
Heather Vescent: +1 Kaliya's point
Kaliya Young: I said it in chat
Kaliya Young: That is enough
Bill Barnhill: +Much to identitywoman on getting a refugee org to review, especially with us using that cultural identity in the lifecycle doc.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Note: we won't get to DID WG charter
Heather Vescent: I witnessed the derailment of this particular paper and it was very concerning.
Heather Vescent: I also do not think it's a point of order to communicate in IRC vs speaking.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Clarification post-meeting: It is a point of order, and chairs will ensure this is clear in subsequent meetings
Drummond Reed: So Kim, lets just make sure that at the end of the call we can explain that we're going to continue it to have the DID WG Charter discussion.
Christopher Allen: Amira isn't a refugee. Joram is.