The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2019-12-10

Agenda
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2019Dec/0036.html
Topics
  1. Agenda Review
  2. Introductions / Reintroductions
  3. Announcements and Reminders
  4. Progress & Action Items
  5. Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force
Organizer
Christopher Allen, Joe Andrieu, Kim Hamilton Duffy
Scribe
Orie Steele, Kim Hamilton Duffy
Present
Justin Richer, Nate Otto, Joe Andrieu, Orie Steele, Manu Sporny, David I. Lehn, Amy Guy, Dmitri Zagidulin, Stuart Freeman, Dave Longley, Drummond Reed, Yancy Ribbens, James Chartrand, Ted Thibodeau, Adrian Gropper, Jeff Orgel, Ganesh Annan, Greg Nadeau, Sumita Jonak, Kim Hamilton Duffy, Chris Winczewski, James Anderson, Greg Kidd, Joe Kaplan, Dan Burnett, Jonathan Holt, Heather Vescent, Adrian Hope-Bailie, Chris Webber
Audio Log
Orie Steele: Scribe+
Orie Steele: I have volunteered
Orie Steele is scribing.

Topic: Agenda Review

Kim Hamilton Duffy: IP Notes, Call Notes, Introductios, Announcements, Progress Action items
... Focus on introduction and discussion on "Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force"
... any additions?
... calls are open, substantive contributions must come from those who sign IPR
... its easy and free to create a CCG acount
... see the the CLA^
... These minutes and an audio recording are archived.
... we use IRC to que speaker and take minutes
... type q+ to <something>

Topic: Introductions / Reintroductions

Erica: I'm Erica Connell, hear to learn more and participate
James Anderson: I'm James, working with McMaster University in Canad
Steve McGuiness: been lurking
This is Greg Nadeau
Greg Kidd: Dialled in, with public consulting, based in US, co chair IMS Global conference, co chair IEEE conception model for learning technology systems, looking forward to integrating community worj
Stuart Freeman: I can hear everyone well, not sure why my outgoing audio is bad. I'm Stuart Freeman, Application Developer for Georgia Tech, where we have some digital credential pilots

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy: We keep this page up to date usually, last meeting in 2019 coming up.
Joe Kaplan: I thought 3rd and 10th were only 2 meetings
Ted Thibodeau: Dec 17 shows TBD -- https://github.com/w3c-ccg/announcements
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Stay tuned for the last meeting
... ongoing announcements, dedicated calls on DIDs on thursdays
... manu, please speak to the F2F meeting
Error: (IRC nickname 'kimhd_' not recognized)[2019-12-10T17:15:48.819Z] <kimhd_> 1-2:30PM PT / 20:00-21:30 UTC
... did resolution breakout calls, task force within ccg, they have seperate calls, happens on thursdays in the zoom mentioned, 1PM Pacific
... this year, we are closing out items, we may use one more call to close items...
Manu Sporny: As you know, we are discussing Personal Data Stores, Identity Hubs, and Encrypted Data Vaults... this covers storage of data associated with DIDs
... we have had calls with DIF, W3C CCG, Hyperledger Aries
... the calls have been well attended
... we have a solid path forward.
... see minutes, we have almost concluded that we will have a joint work item with DIF and CCG..
... we are still resolving IPR issues
Adrian Gropper: Here's my action item in progress on the storage calls about scope https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FBfs4shirUAtqD_d_t6F6oi2NZ0Y7400MDoYSm14Yco/edit
... action is on DIF mgmt / W3C mgmt
... we are hoping things will be sorted within the next month
... Dan to speak about F2F
Dan Burnett: Yes, the meeting is 29-31st January
... if you are interested, if you want to come as a gues, let Dan or Brent know
Jonathan Holt: Lets review IPR issues regarding restrictions
... not clear about overlap with DIF, would love to understand more
Kim Hamilton Duffy: We are all not lawyers...
... lets try and get someone to speak on it
Drummond Reed: I have spent some years on these IPR issues, so I'm happy to help explain that
... manu might be a good candidate to speak on this
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Moving on
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Topic: Progress & Action Items

Kim Hamilton Duffy: This link is where we keep track of action items for review next... there is a lot here
... the main topic of todays call is refered by christopher
... can you elaborate
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Moving on...
... Next issue, web kms... did key method
... lets talk about did key
... we can move ahead with it, we have an editor... Oliver
... I have action for next steps
... now lets talk about Web KMS
Manu Sporny: W+
... manu should we make this a topic of a call?
Manu Sporny: I think... I don't know... probably a call discussion is good idea.
... people may have questions, lets kickoff a discussion on mailing list and maybe also some time on the call
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Next step, lets discuss on the call next week
Joe Kaplan: Do we have 2 editors
Orie is willing to edit
Joe Kaplan: Lets have discussion next week
Joe Kaplan: Seems to pass test, has 2 editors, we have had conversations, let goo!!!!
Manu Sporny: +1
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Next item, open 28 days ago....need to host schema for current jsonld schemas
... no context, need to hear more to move forward with this
Kim Hamilton Duffy is scribing.
Orie Steele: Issue 97 is sister issue of DID context hosting. When you need to update context, update doc next to it
...Orie has open item in DID wg for something similar. Volunteered to help move this forward
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Lets keep track of context hosting discussion [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Hopefully we can close this out soon.
Orie Steele: ... Need a process summary for VCWG
Orie Steele: ... We need to know maintence mode... dan progress?
Dan Burnett: Manu and I had started a conversation around it [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... We have started, but not finished the discussion
Orie Steele: ... Need to make process smooth, but without confusing people about work items
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Sounds like it will touch on general process, talk to the chairs [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Dan Burnett: Vote is still out, needs to be charted... if your AC Rep has not voted, ask them too [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Nothing will go the working group until it has been created
Orie Steele: ... Probably end of january, early feb
Orie Steele: ... There is no place for PRs to go
Orie Steele: ... Hopfully we will have process in place soon
Kim Hamilton Duffy: One last item, issue 32. update crypto suites to use COSE [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Any movement?
Drummond Reed: I voted!
Orie Steele: ... This is a year old...
Orie Steele: ... Manu and dave, any additions
Orie Steele: ... Should we carry?
Manu Sporny: Don't think COSE is far enough along... [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... People think its the future, but libraries are lagging
Orie Steele: ... Doubt we can move or the next 6 months
Orie Steele: ... Suggest we close
Kim Hamilton Duffy: We may archive it [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thats it for action items progress [scribe assist by Orie Steele]

Topic: Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Talk about what it is, lets check with Joe ad Christopher if we need the 7 day countdown [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Idea is, launch a task force within the CCG, as context, some of you may remember that we had a similar task force, and we did not make a lot of progress
Orie Steele: ... This has been pushed forward by the ^
Orie Steele: ... Consists of 12 universitues form US, CA, Mexico...
Orie Steele: ... Idea is to help universities that are tryign to use blockchain and digital credentials
Orie Steele: ... They notices that vendors were dominating the conversation
Orie Steele: ... They wanted to pool resources to understand impact of digital credentials possibly blockchain
Orie Steele: ... They wanted to be able to use their resources, students, tech teams, to build prototypes of the kinds of tools that students would need
Orie Steele: ... Idea is not that they would build a comercial product
Orie Steele: ... They want to continue library support for existing standards
Orie Steele: ... Prototypes for interop
Orie Steele: ... Storage, did methods that integrate with exisiting university systems
Orie Steele: ... Those efforts have been ongoing, announced a year ago.
Orie Steele: ... Slow to start, last few months, there will be a white paper and planned for pilot projects
Orie Steele: ... White paper discussed requirements and principles, and the use of DIDs and VCs
Orie Steele: ... Specifically, the difficulties of realizing this ecosystem in the educational space
Orie Steele: ... Microcredentials, things like that...
Orie Steele: ... There are interesting concerns that come up with Academic VCs, what happens if the student needs to reclaim...
Orie Steele: ... What are best practices for student privacy, legal issues, etc....
Orie Steele: ... During our discussion, because of GDPR, things are complicated...
Orie Steele: ... GDPR promotes privacy by design, we decided to focus on it as the start for privacy...
Orie Steele: ... We are woking to figure out how to deploy these things and uni's
Orie Steele: ... We need to discuss, how to make this work with more than just 12 universities
Orie Steele: ... We want to align with the other ongoing efforts for promoting learner sovereignty
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Not just limited to production, how are they used, what will consume them, how do we work with comercial partners [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Many data standards won't comprehend VCs and may include PII
Orie Steele: ... DIDs are a new concept
Orie Steele: ... Many assume the VC is hosted by the issuer or a trusted 3rd party...
Orie Steele: ... Assumptions start to pollute the data model, and we need to resolve through discussion with education inst. and comercial partners
Orie Steele: ... Work ongoing at T3
Orie Steele: ... We wanted to focus on the questions that are specific to the VC ecosystem
Orie Steele: ... How do we use terms of use? to prevent resharing
Kim Hamilton Duffy: We don't want to reinvent, we want to think through the migration to a VC data model [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... From data format concerns with XML....
Orie Steele: ... Should we express VCs in XML?
Orie Steele: ... There have been lots of work with OpenBadges
Orie Steele: ... Other concerns, how do we avoid segmentation
Nate Otto: (The Europass Digital Credentials Infrastructure project has chosen a VC + XML approach)
Orie Steele: ... There will be variations, people should not need to reinvent
Orie Steele: ... Leaner as an alternative to subject in terminology
Orie Steele: ... Consider lifecycle, recovery,
Orie Steele: ... Options for universities to recognize or reissue from universities that may disapear
Orie Steele: ... Deliverables...
Orie Steele: ... Use cases are standard
Orie Steele: ... Credentials capturing professional development, diplomas and transcripts
Orie Steele: ... Other credentials are not out of scope, but we are seeking alignment
Orie Steele: ... Around common points, like diplomas
Orie Steele: ... We call out relationships to external groups: W3C CCG, W3C DID....
Orie Steele: ... We need a way to ask for clarifications...
Orie Steele: ... We don't want to reinvent, we will rely on industry expert partners
Orie Steele: ... We need to discover existing credential schemas, or understand why they don't work
Orie Steele: ... Learner, worker, military ecosystem under discussion by T3
Orie Steele: ... For Co Chairs: we have Kim from MIT and James from McMaster
Manu Sporny: Thanks kim, the task force writeup is excellent.... there has been an explosion about learner records, credentials, US gov interests... [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Drummond Reed: The "explosion" is a natural consequence of the Verifiable Credentials Data Model spec going to 1.0.
Orie Steele: ... Where is the center of mass?
Orie Steele: ... Deliverables seem concrete, professional dev, diplomas, transcripts
Orie Steele: ... Wondering how the community can help with it?
Orie Steele: ... I don't see where some things fit in...
Orie Steele: ... What is the focus?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: There are a few specific things, related to IPR [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... T3 innovation network seems to be the center of mass
Orie Steele: ... We see industry partners joining there
Orie Steele: ... When it comes to moving standards forward, IPR comes up
Orie Steele: ... The task force is not a standards body, we want to have the converstations that go into drafts be protected.
Orie Steele: ... Stay tuned for greg to produce a map / graph of how things relate to eachother
Orie Steele: ... I am involved in all of them...
Nate Otto: (When my spot on the queue comes up I can address non-IPR aspects of the "center of mass" question. There are other efforts reaching varying stages of maturity that have strongly affected the recent uptick in hype in the educational use cases besides VC 1.0)
Orie Steele: ... We have been disucssing, there are fuzy edges
Orie Steele: ... There are IEEE, and <inaudiable>
Orie Steele: ... We are keen to not reinvent things
Orie Steele: ... We plan to offload as much as possible to standards bodies
Orie Steele: ... We will release guidance for IMS Global
Orie Steele: ... There are impacts regarding verification that will take time to understand the impact to existing ecosystems
Orie Steele: ... For all of us in the space, its very muddy, we need a map of group activity and deliverables
Orie Steele: ... We want to find the best place to do the right work
Adrian Hope-Bailie: Im interested in healthcare, should I wait for ed vertical to formalize before i advocate healthcare group? [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Manu please respond... regarding other verticals, such as gov records [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Joe Kaplan: All members of task force with join CCG and sign CLA? [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Unless something comes up that requries further discussion / objection
Orie Steele: ... We do not need 7 days, we can approve the task force
Drummond Reed: +1 To approving on this call
Chris Webber: Echoing support for the task force [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Manu Sporny: +1 In favor of this task force.
Orie Steele: ... I would like to be part of that
Orie Steele: ... Also appreciate greg, if you are putting that map together
Orie Steele: ... I think its important to reach our to the groups that are doing this work, we can get help from data exchange side
Nate Otto: I have been involved, can shed some light on center of mass [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... There are pools of mass
Orie Steele: ... We can shine light on a single end to end use case
Orie Steele: ... We can identify a purpose, set of technologies to serve that use case
Orie Steele: ... Its important to get end to end
Dan Burnett: Educational use case was one of the primary ones targeted in the original VCWG charter, so good to see this run to broad support and deployment
Orie Steele: ... We need to uncover real world value and address it
Orie Steele: ... Excited to get started, we have this cluster of tech, VC Data Model, OpenBades, DIDs, etc...
Orie Steele: ... We can show a path through these
Chris Winczewski: Helping Orie out with notes because the names are difficult. Please include ARUUC, AACRAO, and the Gronigen Declaration Network in the conversation.
Orie Steele: ... We ca help explain how conversation and compatability wors
Orie Steele: ... We have partners ready to go to production that do millions of creds per year
Drummond Reed: Task force sounds good. Lots of interest exists. Several folks Evernym can recommend. There is an explosion because we have VC Data Model 1.0! [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... Excited congrats
Manu Sporny: There are other verticals interested, federal governments interested in doing work here [scribe assist by Orie Steele]
Orie Steele: ... We are seeing education space vertical
Orie Steele: ... We will see US, CA federal similar veritical work in groups
Orie Steele: ... Some overlap exists between healthcare and education use cases
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thanks all [scribe assist by Orie Steele]