The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2020-08-25

Michael Sena: Hey all, here are the materials for Ceramic & Identity Index (IDX): https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1FqNlvAmrA-hCXW8nMiI0GvzUPFDzVR-mnNcQLigOTMk/edit?usp=sharing
Erica Connell is scribing.

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Msena
Michael Sena: Involved in identity for a while, looking forward to being reintroduced and in moving forward
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Dlongley

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Dave Longley: With Digital Bazaar, works on DIDs, VCs and vaults, has worked in the industry for over a decade
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Need to update the announcement list. Identiverse is on the list, but has happened
Heather Vescent: Yes, there will be an identiverse report out next month.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: : Https://github.com/w3c-ccg/vc-ed/blob/gh-pages/README.md
...recurring meetings - this one, VCs for Education on Mondays - details at the meeting page linked
...VC schemas discussed specific to education
... DID resolution calls also on Monday, meeting page linked in irc
...topics related to DID resolution work item
... Secure Data Storage - Thursday calls, emerging draft specifications
... Jitsi installation preview a few weeks ago - updated invites to that platform will be forthcoming

Topic: Progress on Action Items

Wayne Chang: Mostly it was Manu's efforts. thank you, Manu
Topipc: Progress on Action Items
Kim Hamilton Duffy: First one is a proposed work item now accepted
... Orie proposed it, then no activity, then a flurry of activity. Now work can get started - universal wallet interop spec
... link posted in irc
...Next work item - Issue 123 audio logs broken
... there are meeting notes where audio isn't present, the problem is fixed going forward
...there are roughly 6 mo where audio is missing - we call for volunteers to backfill this information
... if you want to get involved and contribute, this is a great opportunity
Heather Vescent: We were thinking this is a great project for anyone wanting to get more involved
...I will take a lead, and want 2-3 volunteers to go through a straightforward process to grab the data from DB servers and upload it
... if anyone is interested, look for the email to the CCG list
... needs at least 1 volunteer

Topic: Cermaic Protocol Discussion

Gregory Rocco: Hah - quick note - it's just Mike not myself re: presenting.
Michael Sena: Thank you. Generally the structure is - introduce ceramic, go into details about specific ways it is being considered for use
... link to a google slide presentation in irc
... ceramic is a data web for open applications, not exactly like a database, but you can think of it like global database
...can be used for storing any data based document
... treebox is a user managed datastore that let to ceramic
...wanted a public network for managing data
...any data that requires verifiabilty and cross collaboration
Kayode Ezike: Could someone repost the link to the presentation please? I think I joined after it was shared.
... smart docs considered one of the most powerful ways to manage data on the web
...meant for data that is owned by DIDs and ?
... can use docs to define metadata
... information integrity is built in
...can form relationships between documents
... the notion of programability is highlighted
... you can program content in the same way others program money and assets
... records are signed by DIDs and stored on the blockchain
...slide 5 - other benefits are global discoverability
... you can traverse the graph for related content
... auditability, imposability, create links between docs,
... composability of content is important, any DID can be used
... a network that does not provide lock in
... DIDs can be controlled with crypto keys means data isn't trapped, horizontal scaleablity
... technology - DIDs, IPLD, web p-to-p, blockchain
... content can be backed up to any storage system
... protocol makes no requirements as to back up system
... network itself is one global network, but no global state
... each doc is handled individually
... ceramic can scale to meet the needs of global conten
... "content"
... nodes can pin or watch a set of docs they care about
... documents slide - gives an overview of the lifecycle of a document
... each doc has a docid, owned by DID
... you can include uniqueness or randomness to avoid clashes in creating genesis record
... once it is anchored, proof of blockchain record, then it is attached to the doc
... updates can happen with one commit
... you can have anchoring services
...you have scalability in these different ways
... doc types are more of less just programs that govern state mutations of docs
... requires certain content format
... you can use ceramic to manage verifiable claims
... every update is manage automatically
... there's no extra checks needed
... can run directly in browser or on a server in the cloud
... creation of an identity index is highlighted
... like a hub but without relying on a server
... next slide overview of idx
... you can have an index doc where keys are other ceramic docs
... this structure provides a way for DIDs to provide mappings
... users want a way to link many different accounts, and would like to manage encrypted data vaults, but don't want to rely only on servers
... users for different use cases might want an optional layer with ceramic
... you can create lists of users documents, to register DIDs
Daniel Buchner: Are we conflating 'server' with 'piece of code that must run at a provider' - if so, I just want to note that nothing about EDV or Identity Hubs requires the latter
Daniel Buchner: Not seeing how they would get the stream/throughput characteristics that you might want for many app use cases if all you could do is have your phone host your app backends
... ceramic is live and available to check out, resources are there, code is on github
Daniel Buchner: Unless Verizon is cool with you basically eating 100s of TBs per month, along with basically melting your phone
... github and discord have details
... dlongley: thank you for presenting ceramic
... this could fill a significant gap in the ecosystem
Daniel Buchner: If course, we welcome work on Identity Hubs, if any of this is applicable to ingest as informative inputs

Topic: Secure Data Store

Daniel Buchner: Can you precisely contract how you see servers (using that term loosely), depending on use cases, it might take quite a bit to run that on your phone, how does that work?
Michael Sena: Depends on the use case
... some information could run on mobile device, other information you would not want to, and keep that on another server system
... you can use both
Daniel Buchner: The response seems to pose these as two different things, why is that?
... provide a trusted open avail infrastructure for mappings and routings
Mediated/shared endpoints that point to EDV/Hub endpoints
Wayne Chang: Asking more about hubs, and can we look at use cases?
Daniel Buchner: Targeting use cases that half the apps on internet are fully public
... first hit on piece of data are phone, and have side effects like battery life, etc
Wayne Chang: What are jobs to be done by the hub?
Daniel Buchner: Specific to whatever the data is, like google keep or spotify
... and, routes and relays messages
Wayne Chang: What's the relationship between hubs and ceramic
Dave Longley: I think ceramic allows discovery of hubs (and hubs use EDVs internally)
Daniel Buchner: A shared effort to bring them together would be great
Adrian Gropper: Would like to continue this discussion, mapping the world into policy decision points
Dave Longley: Why would you not discover your Hub instance endpoints via your DID Document? [scribe assist by Daniel Buchner]
Daniel Buchner: As a service endpoint
... curious if both daniel and michael would respond to how one would map a policy decision point model
Daniel Buchner: Policy is set by you
Wayne Chang: https://ldapwiki.com/wiki/Policy%20Decision%20Point <- context for those not familiar with PDPs/PEPs
Adrian Gropper: Stipulating separating the data storage point v policy decision point
Daniel Buchner: For all the reasons discussed in the DID WG -- GDPR concerns with VDRs and so on ... and that you might want to include *additional* information about the DID before anyone wants to ever hit that service endpoint (like, include a VC from a commonly trusted source, for example) [scribe assist by Dave Longley]
Daniel Buchner: Multiple modalities, if you don't have a series of musts at every layer, the issue that could happen is everyone configures their hub differently, and then interoperability breaks down
Adrian Gropper: How does ceramic deal with this
Michael Sena: Ceramic allows use of textile threads, and ?
... you can use DID managed docs to give you access to a server in various ways
... users have another layer of control
Adrian Gropper: Is it decentralized across the web itself?
Michael Sena: Yes, exactly
Heather Vescent: A++ econnell!
Dave Longley: +1 Thank you econnell!
Wayne Chang: Yes, thank you econnell
Wayne Chang: Excellent stuff