The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2021-05-04

<heathervescent> Any volunteers to scribe?
<pete_m> i can scribe
Peter Mackinnon is scribing.
<juan_caballero> thx pete_M !
... anyone can participate with these calls, CCG members for serious contributions
Heather Vescent: Topic: IP Note
Heather Vescent: Meeting minutes:
... all these minutes are archived. This is the standard CCG minutes. This meeting uses IRC/Jitsi for chat and minutes. Please type present+ to be considered present, to get on the queue please type q+
... this meeting is voice so off topic comments can be deleted. Thank you to Pete for scribing
Heather Vescent: Topic: Intro / Re-introductions
Naveenaa_A_K: hi, Im a studen researching SSI, its why I'm here. Hello to everyone
Heather Vescent: Hello Naveena, welcome. Anyone else for introductions?
... moving on to re-introductions. Caspar!
Manu Sporny: Welcome to the group, Naveenaa :)
Manu Sporny: Welcome back, Caspar! :)
Caspar_Roelofs_(Gimly): im here for the first time with a workitem, excited to be here as the founder of Gimly working on this item
Heather Vescent: Great. Thank you Caspar, anyone else to reintroduce themselves? Ok, lets move on then
Heather Vescent: Topic: Announcements and Reminders
<juan_caballero> yay for novice-friendly recordings!
Heather Vescent: This CCG 101 presentation will have a second meeting later, it will also be recorded. Are there any other introductions of reminders which should be mentioned at this time?
Manu Sporny: Just an announcement, ill attach to the mailing list later. DID WG has reached a new milestone! All tests for the test suite are complete
... this is great news. In the next 2 weeks we need implementations submitted. There are instructions on how to submit implementations
... so if you're an implementer, please submit an implementation. We would love to see the work and if it's compatible with the DID specs. Ill attach this to the mailing list later. Thank you
Heather Vescent: Thank you manu, great to see the DID work moving along. This has been a long time coming, great job everyonee
Heather Vescent: #188: Https://
Heather Vescent: Topic: Action Items
... #188 is an approved work item, Caspar, or Jack would like to speak about this?
Heather Vescent: This is the new work item repo:
Jack_Tanner(Gimly): this is a new verification method type, it allows for more complex crypto, allowing multi-sig proofs or delegations or a combination of the two. It can also express relationships
<orie> huge +1 to this work item, we've needed more community support for multisig vms for some time
<orie> very excited to see progress on this front.
... Caspar and I are interested in feedback, and what the next steps are
Heather Vescent: Great. Thank you, Manu youre on the queue
<juan_caballero> good point, thanks manu
Manu Sporny: I understand the specs, but are there plain language use-cases to help explain to everyone?
Jack_Tanner(Gimly): MFA. An authenticaion can be submitted to a server with a "fingerprint" and a "signature" in one
<manu_sporny> Great, thank you, Jack.
Heather Vescent: #190: Https://
Heather Vescent: Awesome, this is an active work item. Please contact the Gimly people to continue working
Jack_Tanner(Gimly): excuse me, what are the next steps for everyone?
Wanye_Chang: There have been no objections to the work-item. The chairs will review, and possibly designate this as a work item. Give us a couple of days to do that, does that work for you?
Jack_Tanner(Gimly): is the final objective to make a W3 spec?
Orie Steele: For these types of documents, there is a respec document that describes the verificaiton type and signature type. Probably expect to see something like that
Heather Vescent: Thinking about the CC 101 group, we might need to revisit this topic
<orie> ^ which attempts to register a number of these suites.
Manu Sporny: ...Badly... that registry is hella out of date :)
Juan Caballero: Youtube/SEO-discoverable recording of that CCG101 session might be good :D
<manu_sporny> ... and desperately needs to be updated.
Orie Steele: PRs welcome :)
Wayne_Chang: that sounds like a great idea Heather, I'd be willing to attend the CCG 101. Its a big, moving project. Its up to the work item owners, and the group will support you in your decisions on what you'd like to do
<manu_sporny> yes, please.
<mprorock> i would be happy to talk about respec generation from code an / or test assets
Manu Sporny: Thank you heather. Jack to tie it in with other work in the ecosystem. The Link Data Official charter will probably be up in the W3C in a month or so. Ideally you can find a group of people who would want to work on this with you. Keep refining, reiterating. You might want to get other implementations involved, not required but help smooth the process to an official Standards track. Start getting as
Many people to participate with the item, before we can move it forward officially
Heather Vescent: #190: Https://
Orie Steele: +1 To closing.
Mike Prorock: +1
Juan Caballero: +1 From me
Heather Vescent: This is a resolution concern about this VCHTTPAPI work item. Any objections to closing this issue?
Heather Vescent: #191: Https://
... next one #191 - Tracability API
<mprorock> "Traceability Interoperability Profile" is proposed name
Orie Steele: I think we've made progress describing this work item. Previous calls determined that we are trying include many things into this interop profile. It relies on other specs that are out there today, not intending to replace those specs. Tracability Interoperability Profile - any opinion about that vocab?
Manu Sporny: +1 To "Traceability Interoperability Profile" or anything other than "API" in the name :P
<orie> naming is hard
<juan_caballero> a little ablist but it is what it says (j/k!)
<manu> I'd also be a +1 to "Traceability Interop Work Item" or "Traceability Interop Task Force"...
Wayne_Chang: thats a lot to say, but describes everything the work item is about. This scopes into describing parts of the ecosystem, the name works well. No objections to moving forward with the work item
<manu> no concerns (to be clear)
<juan_caballero> hope my conflicts get resolved and i can participate again soon!
Heather Vescent: Any objections to moving forward with the work item? This can move forward. Thank you Orie
Juan Caballero: +1 To <3 TallTed, a paragon for community editors everywhere!
Manu Sporny: +1 To what Orie is saying -- really great to hear that level of deep reflection.
Orie Steele: Thank you heather, Chairs, and community for working with mme. Thank you Tall Ted for a number of opportunities. Direct feedback is best for me, and I really appreciate all the feedback about how to work moving forward. I love working with this community, and the best part of working with you is the positive feedback. Thank you Tall Ted, Manu!
<manu> lol (kumbaya CCG)
<wayne_chang> let us join hands and share data schemas
Heather Vescent: Awesome. Always good to have resolution when conversations get heated
<juan_caballero> LINK hands
Mike Prorock: +1 Here
Manu Sporny: And really great to see that it turned out well for the community :)
<tayken> �� �� ��
... CCG 101 folks here? Awesome. We are going to do an Intro to the CCG. This will be a shared presentation. Starting with me, then moving to the 101 team. This is a first step at building an orientation for others who have not been here often. This is a basic orientation about what we are doing. This is the first one, please work with us as we develop making the CCG more accessible to other, new people. We
<mahmoud_alkhraishi> looks good
Are Geeks, we need to make this more available for non-Geeks
<jack_tanner_(gimly)> I can access
<manu_sporny> Yes, can see slide deck.
... Wayne, could you watc the queue?
Wayne_Chang: I got it
Heather Vescent: Here's the link. This presentation covers a broad overview of the CCG group, standards, etc etc... dealing with this community ecosystem.
... We are looking at a varity of technologies about VCs and trying to look past the "bleeding-edge" to see what is possible and how we can do it. We have strong values: User control, privacy of data, tech used appropriately. This community is about developing technology in the open, transparent for the community. Thank you Anil John for helping develop the standards and this work because we all think it is
... W3C has different groups. The CCG is a community group, Its free to join, and open to everyone. You just have to have an account, must sign an IPR agreement. CCG is all volunteers, we dont have formal resource support. A lot of this work has potential to become standards here or other places.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Note: there's a problem with the minute generation script, which you'll see in the 4/20 minutes email. I opened an issue, but I'll see if anything obvious in the github action logs stand out. I think other minutes have been fine
... Contrasted to a W3C Working Group. Only paid W3C members can be members of a working group. There are different formalities that come with that. This is a Standards Track type of work. Things can be reopened to possibly revise the product
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Me == Not chair :)
<wayne_chang> ^
<wayne_chang> congrats on your awesome chairing!
... We love to see the CCG group as a "big tent" to be able to work with different groups. We have active membership. We currently have a co-chair role open, looking to make adjustments for recruiting.
... Participation is really about the community. IIW recently showed us what the future might hold
Mike Prorock: I can hop in here at slide #9
<dmitriz> question about the slides - is somebody supposed to be sharing a screen?
... I wanted to start, since W3C is a standards body. Speaking to what that is. There are multiple outcomes to work here. From a w3C pov, we are looking at actual web standards. There are other bodies that look elsewhere. The standard itself is more in terms of the actual specs. Where standards are actually useful is external facing objects. Once you start repeating, and segmenting the groups, this is where
Standards become important.
<heathervescent> Thanks to Manu for creating this slide!
<manu_sporny> I think it's great that Mike's doing the background, btw
... Standards makes sure data is being exchanged in a normal way. Therefore, everyone understands whats going on. A lot of this stuff pre-dates me and my involvement here, but starts back at the beginning of DIDs and credentials.
<heathervescent> Thanks Manu - we are trying to circulate the knowledge through the community!
Manu Sporny: +1 To that!
... Link Data group is bringing important work. There is a lot of active discussions in the mailing list. These are the foundational parts of exchanging data. Everything is supported by the infrastructure task force, These are the calls, the minutes, and how we organize. There are the VC side, the DID side. Then there is the secure data storage group.
Manu Sporny: (And Kim - who made it accessible, and Heather for documenting it so others could use it, and Wayne for creating the ITF)... many hands :)
... Work item overview starts at the proposal. Proposing it in GitHub. Moving that in if there are no objections, then the item cycles through the processes. This is essentially a filtering process to get to that point. The CCG is involved in multiple levels DIDs and specs, and how to exchange those things. Lastly, the thing that goes in the VC
<heathervescent> Thanks to Manu for this amazing timeline as well! And for spending time with the 101 team to tell us about all these items.
Fred: this slide is about a lot of the different work items the CCG has been involved with. There is the link portal, JSON-LD. In yellow, there are the vocab work items for the credentials/VCs. The pink is looking at moving the credentials around, resolution and CHAPI and so on. This timeline is the work items and specs done throughout the years so we can see how things are evolving throughout the ecosystem
Heather Vescent: Great, thank you. One of the topics we wanted to cover was
... what is SSI
Manu Sporny: "Governments hate it!" <-- hmm, not all governments :)
<tallted> acronym for `Self Sovereign Identity`
... it is an approach to Digital Identity, but it is controversial. Since we love to discuss the deep-end we love this conversation. There can be different personal values on using the tech, but the tech can be used
<juan_caballero> #notAllGovernments
<kim> hey, I don't like SSI either. And I'm not a government
<manu_sporny> The Government of Kimlandia.
<dmitriz> lol
Kim_Linson: this is for everyone who is brand-new. I had to do this myself. The formalities require you to make a W3C account. Validate it. Then you're in. There will be instructions on how to complete the process. This is the website here, this is important here.
... Lastly, on a level-one intro. Go ahead and join the mailing list. At the beginning it is a lot to read, but it really lets you understand the topic and the community. This will help you get comfortable to move further.
... Github, googledrive, meeting links, the minutes, the work item process. A few more things, I really like this slide. You do hear a lot of voices in these meetings, this is for newcomers. Linkedin profiles to see who these people are. Anil referenced Manu's youtube videos last week, thank you for those.
Manu Sporny: Glad they helped... top artists worked on those videos. :P
<kimhd> Manu's json-ld videos helped me out a few years ago, they are great
<mprorock> pretty liberal with the term "excellent" there
<juan_caballero> huge thanks to Mprorock
<juan_caballero> s
<juan_caballero> walkthru from last week!
<juan_caballero> it excelled by any measure
... let me plug whats coming up. This afternoon we will do this presentation again. Last week Mike did a wonderful presentation, thank you. In june we will be doing an VC exchange for education. We want to do DIDs. Anyone coming to a 101, please think about how you can help someone who is brandnew understand these concepts. We 101 folks need that.
<jack_tanner_(gimly)> very nice presentation!!!
<manu_sporny> That was great -- thank you to the CCG 101 folks for putting it together!
<manu_sporny> (and this was an excellent use of CCG main call time) -- I feel like we need to do this every 6 months or so.
Mike Prorock: +1 Manu, especially as we start to see newcommers and broader audiences
<manu_sporny> lol CCG tiktok -- like we need that sort of trouble.
Juan Caballero: +1
<wayne_chang> EFF has one
Heather Vescent: Thanks Kim, Mike, Fred! One last comment, this community is accessible. Please reach out to us. Email. Dont hesistate. If anyone is working on work items and want help to translate it to a CCG 101 level presentation, the community will help you with that. We will start putting these presentations on the CCG youtube. We will do a re-do of this topic later this afternoon. Oh, Kim please youre on
The queue
<juan_caballero> even for me, after all these years
<juan_caballero> cold sweat
<mprorock> ccg is nice compared to kernel
<kayode_ezike> +++1 Kim
Kim Hamilton Duffy: This community is best when there are mutliple voices. So if there is anything that we can do to make things more accessible please let us know
Kerri Lemoie: +1 Kim! :heart:
Caspar_Roelofs_(Gimly): thank you Heather, Kim. This group has been very welcoming. I have a question. if we want resources to train devs, or for a new dev in this space, if they wanted to learn about the SSI work and tech/specs. Where could we find the resources? Would you recommend resources? Are they collected somewhere?
Heather Vescent: Please Mike, go ahead.
<kim> if there ends up being a dev-to-dev onboarding, I'd be happy to help contribute what I know
Mike Prorock: We have been looking into that. The tracability work has good recordings out there currently. I am happy to facilitate sessions for devs to help get their feet wet. Please reachout on the mailing list if you need somehting outside of the normal schedule
<heathervescent> It's been my dream to make this happen for a long time! The 101 team has been great!
Manu Sporny: I just wanted to start by saying thank you to the CCG 101 team, thank you heather for leading that, and thank yo uto those who put the presentation together. Id like to see this every few months or so to re-introduce the way we get things done here. The other thing, it breaks my heart hearing that people are intimidated sending emails to the mailing list. But I understand. I want to echo what Kim said:
We have a welcoming, inclusive group here. So, if there is anything we can do to make anything easier for anyone please let us know! Thats it
<juan_caballero> is a separate ccg101 mailing list an option?
Kerri Lemoie: +1 @Juan. Wondering the same
Mike Prorock: +1 Juan - or a tag in the subject line
Heather Vescent: Thank you Manu. Wayne, we might need to kick the IWW recap to next week. I understand being intimidated sending an email to the mailing list. This can allow us to explore different techniques on how to include newer community members. The people here who are regulars might be intimidating.
<juan_caballero> ooooh tag in subject line is a good idea
<wayne_chang> sure thing, happy to talk about it next week
<juan_caballero> huge applause all around! ccg101 is great work
... this looks like the end of the meeting. Thank you to everyone for coming today. Extra thanks to CCG 101, Kim, Fred, Mike. That concludes the meeting. Next time will be next week at this time
<kayode_ezike> ������������
Juan Caballero: will stay the home page right?
<heathervescent> All, I am kicking the remaining folks on the call to conclude the meeting. Thanks all.
<heathervescent> Thanks also to Pete for scribing again.