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CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force Telecon

Minutes for 2021-11-01

Agenda
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-credentials/2021Oct/0091.html
Topics
  1. IP Note
  2. Scribe Selection
  3. Introductions & Reintroductions
  4. Announcements & Reminders
  5. Co-chairs election begins - review of nomination and voting procedures.
  6. Review Use Cases - Two from Matt Lisle
Organizer
Kerri Lemoie
Scribe
john_kuo
Present
Kerri Lemoie, Hakan Yildirim, Matt Lisle, Dmitri Zagidulin, Stuart Freeman, John Kuo, Kayode Ezike, Nate Otto, Phil Barker, David Ward, Simone Ravaoli, Juan Caballero
Audio Log

Topic: IP Note

<john_kuo> OK
Kerri Lemoie: Asked John to be the scribe and typing up how to do it here [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
Kerri Lemoie: IRC commands: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/irc_ref.html [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]

Topic: Scribe Selection

john_kuo is scribing.
<john_kuo> There are guidelines with tips
John Kuo: :+1:

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

<john_kuo> Introductions...
<john_kuo> Hakan Yildrim new
<john_kuo> PhD student in Turkey, visiting scholar at Purdue
<john_kuo> Working on blockchain in education, happy to be here
<kayode_ezike> Welcome Hakan!

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie: Announcements and reminders [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Tomorrow CCG call will have state senator sharing Wyomings initiative
<john_kuo> Drummond Reed from Evernym

Topic: Co-chairs election begins - review of nomination and voting procedures.

<john_kuo> First agenda item: VC edu co-chair election, two open slots
<kerri_lemoie> Co-chair description https://docs.google.com/document/d/11I96C6QMzx9Yv0mvM3hAnc3jB5ER69qmzQTeY1a8M8s/edit
<john_kuo> Kerri- finds it fulfilling, always know what's going on, as co-chair you are at the center
<john_kuo> Hard for one person, better to distribute responsibilities
<kerri_lemoie> public-vc-edu@w3.org
<john_kuo> Two week nomination, self nomination via email
<john_kuo> Send it why you are interested
<john_kuo> If more than two will hold a vote
<john_kuo> Will be ranked choice
<john_kuo> Monday 11/15 statements and questions
<john_kuo> Or if just two will be introductions
<john_kuo> 11/21 voting deadline
<john_kuo> 11/22 results
<john_kuo> Use Cases:
Kerri Lemoie: Working to populate: [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<kerri_lemoie> VC-EDU use case doc: https://w3c-ccg.github.io/vc-ed-use-cases/
<kerri_lemoie> Google doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1O98lt85PS8ozyMtKQMPdZPLnzpNI30bEgYH1Dq-C-IQ/edit?usp=sharing
<john_kuo> Started google to work directly avoid GitHub etc. for now
<john_kuo> Will begin reviewing and populating
<john_kuo> Review existing use cases and align with template
<john_kuo> Please write your own
<john_kuo> Just use template
<kerri_lemoie> Use case template: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QcPTXUuhcJdQFPcj0F31MVg8QTGtOsSx93E7D6L4ZSI/edit

Topic: Review Use Cases - Two from Matt Lisle

<john_kuo> Matt Lyle from Georgia tech has two use cases
<john_kuo> Matt share screen
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> one of the counterintuitive bits about jitsi UX
<kerri_lemoie> Professional Education: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sr4FGsv6gpViu0i5a9hduNpdXz2z9KND5MWtGoAma6s/edit
<john_kuo> First use case GT professional education
<john_kuo> E.g. continuing education
<john_kuo> Jane is employee at company looking for promotion via GT
<john_kuo> Wants to earn GT PE certificate, 4 course 1 day in person course, at end you get a certificate
<john_kuo> Slight wrinkle: Jane would like cumulative and also for each course, Jane wants printable certificate
<john_kuo> Companies want printable certificate
<john_kuo> Copied from existing use cases, OB, DIF, CLR etc.
<john_kuo> DID web,OIDC
John Kuo: Tech: LMS of GTP and SIS,. Canvas and Genius, GT Authentication, Wallet, talent system
John Kuo: Goal: advance career
<john_kuo> Actors, Jane, GTPE, employer
John Kuo: Preconditions: Janes needs wallet... ?
<john_kuo> Have Grad student doing UX research, how important is a wallet long term...
<john_kuo> GTPE needs to issue and print, local company needs verification and ingest
John Kuo: Flow: current, local company doesn't use VCs
<john_kuo> Separate one for when they can
<john_kuo> - Completes course in LMS
<john_kuo> - LMS issues / claim course
<john_kuo> - Jane gets credential
<john_kuo> Repeat
<john_kuo> For 4 credentials
<john_kuo> SIS issues certificate
<john_kuo> Gets in wallet and printable certificate
<john_kuo> Has a unique serial number
<john_kuo> Jane presents certificate, gets recorded in HR system
<john_kuo> Jane has all 5 digital certificates
<john_kuo> Long term: local company can recognize VCs
<john_kuo> Jane can just share VCs
<john_kuo> When there is a framework Jane can be recognized as candidate
Kerri Lemoie: This is just digital? [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Second case version is digital VC sharing only
Kerri Lemoie: Is unique ID tied to certificate? [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> How is serial number used?
<john_kuo> Interesting to note
John Kuo: ASU has a use case for having an external id and an attachment for paper or paper-like. [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
John Kuo: External id maps to external system that's not a VC [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
John Kuo: Then build a connector to the VC. Pocket is a wallet that stores schemas and instances of VCs. [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
John Kuo: Needs external ID and attachment, great use case [scribe assist by John Kuo]
John Kuo: Add: this version doesn't need printable?
<john_kuo> In second use case set maybe still need printable
John Kuo: Other use case - a vc with a corresponding child collection. Issue a credential that includes the child credentials based on business rules that help trigger that credential. [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
John Kuo: For instance four courses & course completion. Done for transcript processing purposes. [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> `evidence`?
John Kuo: Context needed. [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> yeah, i agree
<kerri_lemoie> ack?
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> mind-reading!
<kerri_lemoie> :)
John Kuo: Dmitri>: use cases for relationships
<kerri_lemoie> The CLR has a way to make these relationships
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> i'm not sure it's appropriate here but there is this spec in TOIP land for chaining VCs: https://wiki.trustoverip.org/display/HOME/ACDC+%28Authentic+Chained+Data+Container%29+Task+Force
John Kuo: Yes, it is an issue for VCs. Pocket is using JSON-LD and data models [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> Pocket?
Dmitri Zagidulin: Hash links [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Will be presenting to CCG
Juan Caballero: Chain of VCs / web of trust [scribe assist by John Kuo]
John Kuo: This is lineage but not collection? [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<kerri_lemoie> Not Kerri-sphere :)
Juan Caballero: May not map neatly to DIDs and VCs [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> Kerri is NOT the empress of the KeRisphere
<kerri_lemoie> Not yet!
Matt Lisle: One note, these are not just 4 courses necessarily but could be 4 modules [scribe assist by John Kuo]
John Kuo: Success:
<john_kuo> -Jane has agency
<john_kuo> -Company has access to Jane's data
<john_kuo> Jane can become a candidate more readily
John Kuo: Failure:
<john_kuo> -GT can't issue
<john_kuo> -Company can't verify
<john_kuo> Jane has not printed copy
Kerri Lemoie: Any companies interested? [scribe assist by John Kuo]
Matt Lisle: Companies setting these requests all the time [scribe assist by John Kuo]
Kerri Lemoie: Phil Long suggest employer flows [scribe assist by John Kuo]
John Kuo: Barrier: who will build?
Kerri Lemoie: We need more 3rd party and verifier stories [scribe assist by John Kuo]
John Kuo: Pocket working AZ Next - how to get in touch with organizations partnered with AZ Next. They don't want additional requirements. Probably will be a time before these orgs accept VCs. May take some time for this. Growing awareness fo benefits. [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
Matt Lisle: Seconds that, thinks companies are interested but not ready so much, they see it more as a retention [scribe assist by John Kuo]
John Kuo: Kerr: that does make sense
John Kuo: The companies are two busy [scribe assist by John Kuo]
Kerri Lemoie: Benefits don't outweigh cost [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<kerri_lemoie> Access to campus Makerspaces: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q3Vl_IjCkKorKl4kb_Qw_RD4E2Bwe3W42Lq2k6Xf1oc/edit
Matt Lisle: Second use case [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Maker Spaces
<john_kuo> Could do general training, get a credential, can access maker spaces
John Kuo: Wrinkle: Different levels of access...
<john_kuo> General access isn't enough, need levels of access
John Kuo: Standards: same as before, OB, VCs. DIDs, OIDC
John Kuo: Tech: Authentication, scanners, wallet
John Kuo: Goal: Jessica wants access to maker spaces
<john_kuo> Also make spaces outside of GT
John Kuo: Actor: Jessica, Maker employees
John Kuo: Conditions: has wallet on smartphone
<john_kuo> College has method to issue VCs and has hardware to present VCs
John Kuo: Flow:
<john_kuo> - Jessica completes LMS course
<john_kuo> - Gets VC from LMS adds to wallet
<john_kuo> - Select credential, presents QR code
<john_kuo> May not be enough has to log in
<john_kuo> Gets access to limited stuff
John Kuo: Success:
<john_kuo> - one credential gains access to all
<john_kuo> Automated access
John Kuo: Failure:
<john_kuo> Someone else gets phone access
<john_kuo> Jessica can access equipment not qualified for
Kerri Lemoie: Great use case [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Similar use case for first responders
<john_kuo> Emergency situations, issuing badges
<john_kuo> Was hardened for security
<juan_caballero_(spruce)> Venn Agency in LA/BC was working on something similar, i can't remember if VC-based or badge-based
John Kuo: Adding biometrics to Pocket [scribe assist by Kerri Lemoie]
Matt Lisle: Mentioned we have a UX research student, she questioned the focus on wallet [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> If she completes training, should be on record
<john_kuo> Swipes ID card instead
John Kuo: Wallet replaces ID card, or vice versa? (Kerri) [scribe assist by John Kuo]
Matt Lisle: Near term first tab [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Use case link:
Kerri Lemoie: Need to talk about governance [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<john_kuo> Lots of controversy, will need to talk about it, get into use cases
Kerri Lemoie: Anything else? Thanks Matt! [scribe assist by John Kuo]
<kayode_ezike> Thanks Matt!
<nate_otto_(badgr/csky)> Cheers! :+1: