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VC for Education Task Force

Transcript for 2022-01-10

<simone_ravaioli> :clap
<deb_everhart> happy new year everyone!
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Welcome everybody to the January 10th 2022 verifiable credentials education task force meeting at our first meeting of the new year.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to go through the boilerplate stuff and then we'll dig into our agenda.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie: First is our IP note anyone can participate in these calls however I'll substitute contributors any ccg work items must be members of the ccg with full IPR agreement signed.
Kerri Lemoie: The link to join community.
Kerri Lemoie: Do you have a W3 account I'll give you the request link for that and then also is a link to the w3c community contributor license agreement.
Kerri Lemoie: I'll put in the chat as well.

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie: Call Notes
Kerri Lemoie: These minutes and recording of everything said in this call are archived.
Kerri Lemoie: Archive these meetings here with the link in the chops.
Kerri Lemoie: We use chat or IRC speakers during the call as well to take minutes.
Kerri Lemoie: The minutes are happening automatically now but we do use a queue system for speakersand what we do for this is when you'd like to add yourself to the queue you type q+ in the chat.
<deb_everhart> I'm not hearing Kerri-- is it just a problem on my side?
<kerri_lemoie> q_
Kerri Lemoie: Like so and you'll see it added me to the queue and then if you want to remove yourself from the queue if you change your mind or someone else already said what you wanted to say just put in a q-
Kerri Lemoie: If you are looking for any more other IRC commands.
Kerri Lemoie: Jitsi recognizes this so have a look at this link here.
Kerri Lemoie: And if by chance you're calling in and not able to access the chat just simply asked us to put you in the queue and we'll do that.
<matthias_gottlieb> I cannot hear you, I restart, be back soon

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie: Ok next introductions is there anyone you to the call today that would like to introduce themselves?
Kerri Lemoie: Ok it looks like the usual suspects on here. How about reintroductions?
Kerri Lemoie: Anyone working on something new or haven't been on for a while and just want to reintroduce themselves?
<deb_everhart> can everyone else hear her?

Topic: Announcements and Reminders

Kerri Lemoie: Next is announcements and reminders.
Kerri Lemoie: This is a link to upcoming ccg meetings and events.
<colin_reynolds,_learning_economy> Yes, can hear Deb
Kerri Lemoie: We don't have anything I'm speciality special topics plan right now with the regular meetings and take a look there especially for our Tuesday weekly calls.
Kerri Lemoie: Also another announcement is that registration is open for the internet identity Workshop number 3. They're planning to meet in person the spring April 26th the 28th at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California. Super early bird registration is open now. I'm sure that if things change from it being in person to online I would say they have done this very successfully over the past year.
Kerri Lemoie: Checking the queue
Kerri Lemoie: One of the items in our topics list was to announce Jitsi updates
<marty_reed> LERN meeting this afternoon registration at this link
Kerri Lemoie: I didn't ask for a scribe because the transcription now turns on automatically when a meeting is being recorded.
Kerri Lemoie: It uses Google speech API. We're going to try this out.
Kerri Lemoie: You probably can see it in the chat.
Kerri Lemoie: I want to give a really big thank you to Manu Sporny and his company Digital Bazaar for setting this up for supporting it.
Kerri Lemoie: They've done really great work providing the tools and maintenance for.
Kerri Lemoie: The tools supporting and communicating our community's efforts transparently and globally as possible.
<simone_ravaioli> IMS Digital Credential Summit (Feb. 28th - March 2nd)
<deb_everhart> thank you!
<manu_sporny> awww, thanks Kerri :)
Kerri Lemoie: Without that I don't know how we get all this done so I just want to make sure that Manu knows that we really appreciate this. A couple of other Jitsi updates.
Kerri Lemoie: Jitsi version updated to hopefully to fix the recent issues with the latest Google Chrome release. I don't know if you recall that some of some folks are having sound issues and this is fix app.
Kerri Lemoie: They've added in polls which any of you can do. If you go to the chat and you'll see a tab to the right for the polls.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't know what we'll use that for yet but we could try it out we could think about it.].
Kerri Lemoie: Then also other updates include a YouTube video sharing and synchronize playback and also audio sharing from the application or browser tab when doing screen sharing.
Kerri Lemoie: This is some great improvements and I for one think it's really great that we don't have to manually scribe. I know that's kind of an awkward part of the meeting.
Kerri Lemoie: We'll do our best if it doesn't make any sense to you we can make edits to the logs.
Kerri Lemoie: Welcome to our new chairs Dmitri & Simone who will be in the rotation to host meetings and be working on planning agendas.
Kerri Lemoie: Hey Manu - transcribing is working okay so far I think.
Manu Sporny: Yeah I so carry idea it's it's it's operating just fine everything's nominal said I'm going to go ahead and drop now.
<phil_l_(p1)> I have no audio and it's likely me (Firefox) so I'm likely to drop - sorry, looks like a good crowd
Simone Ravaoli: +1 On auto-scribing !! Makes it less intimidating for non-native english speakers to join.
Manu Sporny: Something to keep in mind when you stop the recording you have to also stop the transcriber.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you.
<timothy_summers> I have no audio either
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so I see Timothy you have no audio.
Kerri Lemoie: This is what we're just talking about. My suggestion would be to switch to Firefox.
<manu> If people continue to have issues w/ audio -- let us know which browser version and OS you're using.
Kerri Lemoie: When you have a chance could you let me know what version of Chrome you're using so I can get some feedback on that.
<manu> We tested 14 different combinations, but can't be sure we got every combination
<deb_everhart> I hung up and came back in and then I could hear
<kerri_lemoie> If you can't hear please try firefox and then let me know what browser and version you are using.
<manu> We know that Safari and Firefox now work better than they did... we also support dial-in via voice.
<kerri_lemoie> Thanks Deb
<david_ward> I could not hear using OSX Chrome 97.0.4692.71 and had to switch to Firefox.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you for your notes in the chat and about audio issues. We'll take it from there.
<phil_barker> I hear nothing on Chromium
<phil_l_(p1)> Using Firefox 95.0.2 but no luck -heard "recording is on" announcement but nothing more.
Kerri Lemoie: Anyone who can hear me please text yes or no.
<kerri_lemoie> Please switch to firefox
Kerri Lemoie: Is there anyone else who is hearing me could you tell me if you are.
<colin_reynolds,_learning_economy> I can hear you
<deb_everhart> I hear you
Kerri Lemoie: And the transcriber is picking me up.
Marty Reed: Yes I can hear you..
Marty Reed: And I'm on Firefox.
<phil_barker> I don't have Firefox
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you
Marty Reed: Yeah I did have to switch off of Chrome.
Marty Reed: Yep.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm on Chrome version 96.1.
Kerri Lemoie: This is what I'm on right now.
Kerri Lemoie: And it's working okay.
<kerri_lemoie> Keri version of chrome: Version 96.0.4664.110
<colin_reynolds,_learning_economy> Working for me on Chrome: Version 96.0.4664.110 (Official Build) (x86_64)
Marty Reed: Yeah it's working fine for Firefox.
<deb_everhart> I'm on Chrome Version 96.0.4664.110
<dmitri_z> Phil Barker: do you have Safari?
Kerri Lemoie: Okay.
Kerri Lemoie: And I we can try again.
Kerri Lemoie: They wait a couple minutes late everybody let me know if you can hear.
Marty Reed: Yeah I see a lot of people dropping off and got back come back on soon maybe wait a minute.
<deb_everhart> how about a poll to see who can hear?
Kerri Lemoie: I may give it a few minutes I'm just going to sit here for a minute and left let this settle down a little.
Marty Reed: Are there Scooter used to call Dad.
<sharon_leu> I'm on Chrome 97.0.4692.71 and all good here!
<colin_reynolds,_learning_economy> LOL
Marty Reed: Are there Scooter used to call Dad that that is an interesting interpretation.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes.
Kerri Lemoie: That's it.
Kerri Lemoie: I added and added Apple give audio or don't have audio click yes with imagine the people who are dropping off probably.
Kerri Lemoie: Adamant.
Deb Everhart: Well and then just detected the other way around can you all hear me.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes.
Marty Reed: Yep.
<matthias_gottlieb> Switch to Firefox works
Marty Reed: We can have dinner.
Marty Reed: Going to have to be a little bit more articulate I guess.
Marty Reed: Yes.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to get going I think most folks are coming back on.

Topic: Use Cases

Kerri Lemoie: And the next topic is Use Cases
Kerri Lemoie: Over the past year we collected quite a few use cases in github and then we started using a new template in Google Google Drive.
<kerri_lemoie> link to github issues for use cases:
Kerri Lemoie: I've grabbed the ones that were either sent to our mailing list or we're presented here on this call.
Kerri Lemoie: In no way is this a finite list but the co-chairs have decided that it'd be best to start translating these into the cases report where we can view them and Aggregate and then make additions and that they're together.
Kerri Lemoie: So that they're not all over the place.
Kerri Lemoie: The format of the document we're going to be working on is in this doc:.
Kerri Lemoie: We could tailor this to meet the needs of our task force.
<timothy_summers> Joining from mobile solved the issue while I update Firefox.
Kerri Lemoie: Aiming for is to get something for vc-edu that looks something like this.
Kerri Lemoie: EPC.
<kerri_lemoie> VC Use Cases doc:
Kerri Lemoie: We're going to try and complete this by the end of February.
Kerri Lemoie: Is going to be helpful to other verticals that are seeking employment PCS but also provide the scaffolding that we need to build out the vc edu model recommendations.
Kerri Lemoie: It could be that the data model recommendations may not need all the needs of the use cases but it could address what we know at this point in time and it's really hard to build a model doc without some kind of documentation. This is part of our Charter and also part of the work items that we set forth like a long time ago.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to start with that this week so I'm just going to get them in there in some form or another they may link to the actual documents or or what have you been I'm just going to get them in there and then next week we can look at that and take it from there and see you maybe what's missing or who wants to jump in so every week until we we get this done. We're going to start our meetings with these updates.
Kerri Lemoie: Everyone will be welcome to make comments in the doc and anyone who wants to make even more of an active contribution to it you just let me know and we'll set you up as an editor.
Kerri Lemoie: The only reason to not just open up and make everyone as editor is just sort of to maintain some control of the flow the process but everyone is welcome to be an editor if you'd like too.
Kerri Lemoie: And that's what I have so far for use cases and I just check the queue.
Kerri Lemoie: Anybody have any thoughts about that about that process or any feedback.
Kerri Lemoie: Simone I see that you were here.
Kerri Lemoie: Can you hear us okay?
Simone Ravaoli: And.
Kerri Lemoie: Oh thank you.
Marty Reed: Well so I just want to get a feel for how you want to mature the use cases I mean.
Marty Reed: What wait what is your thoughts on the process.
Marty Reed: Like two or three weeks is stays open and then.
Kerri Lemoie: Oh you mean as far as like how long it will take.
Marty Reed: Yeah.
Kerri Lemoie: I was thinking it was like a month in so they may be around this time in February that we'd be pretty close to getting this where we need to be where we do a final review like maybe the first week of March.
Marty Reed: I'm happy to contribute as an editor.
<deb_everhart> I'm happy to contribute
<phillip_long_(t3)> Weird - Firefox didn't work. Chrome does.... (Version 96.0.4664.110)
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you. awesome .I'll add you I know that there is overlap there's a lot of use case writing going on at other standard troops and also other networks like T3 so there will be a lot of that and I'll just bring it in together and make sure it's covered.
Kerri Lemoie: Dimitri and Simone is it okay with you if we move on to the next topic.
Simone Ravaoli: To round off the use cases part, we aware of use cases existing in other communities and make sure that we have some consistency.
Kerri Lemoie: Dmitri do you have anything else to add about use cases?
Dmitri Zagidulin: I don't but I'll look forward to it though.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay.
<phillip_long_(t3)> Happy to contribute to use cases, as well.

Topic: 2022 Planning

Kerri Lemoie: Simone, Dimitri and I got up to speed on the co-chair responsibilities over the break and we had a chance to spend a little time planning and getting a list together the topics and meeting agendas for the coming year. Because we are also working towards VC modeling many of these topics are going to feed into that but also a part of our charter is to learn about the work that's going on in an ecosystem and help learn from the experts inn our space so we are trying to gather a list of topics where we can move forward on those things. So this is the list of things right here I'll put in the chat.
Kerri Lemoie: And I can open up in my screen to on so I thought we could do is go through this list together.
Kerri Lemoie: And then after we're done going through this list Simone is going to set up a way for us to prioritize and then he'll get back to us on how that'll work later.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay you see my screen.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Simone & Dmitri may fill in topics descriptions as we go and jump in on the topics that they're familiar with. Play guy into feeling in descriptions so if you feel like I'm typing as we go.
Kerri Lemoie: This is the list that we have so far. I would welcome anyone here to add to this list and if you do if you could just put your contact info so we can reach out to you about it.
Kerri Lemoie: The first one we have is internationalization.
Kerri Lemoie: Simone or Dmitri if you don't mind I'm going to call on you because I think you both have some specific thoughts there.
Kerri Lemoie: Type in description.
Simone Ravaoli: Top of my priorities. I see a lot of work happening outside North America that is connected to what we're doing. Make sure we have liaisons with work in Canada and Europe. Invite them to keep us up to date on development. Hoping auto-scribe will help with this so that non-native speakers felt intimidated scribing.
Simone Ravaoli: Simone will take a lead in making sure that we're aligned. Reach out to him if you are interested or have ideas or thoughts about this.
Simone Ravaoli: Switch out.
Kerri Lemoie: Part of this is probably also considering non-english language.
Kerri Lemoie: And how that fits into this. Dmitiri, I was wondering if you were looking at that angle of it too.
Kerri Lemoie: I know this comes up quite a bit in open badges like informing what language is informing the validator.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Something like that.
Kerri Lemoie: Does that make sense to you.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Does anyone have anything else they want to say on internationalization?
Kerri Lemoie: Accessibility so there's a lot of different angles in accessibility. This would probably be more than one meeting. Internationalization would be too. Accessibility we have different angles we have we have the angle that it is compatible for folks who aren't able to see or hear the internet etc.
<phillip_long_(t3)> variously abled folks
Kerri Lemoie: Addressing other sorts of government standards for accessibility. So there is addressing that then there's also accessibility of the technology which we can't necessarily address in VC but there are things that we could recommend that could be done like for instance there are some process using a paper that lead to VCs.
Kerri Lemoie: Clearly I don't know enough.
<phillip_long_(t3)> Diwala would be good to invite into the accessibility conversation re: technologies.
Kerri Lemoie: The topic but I know it's critical that we look into and I knew I would like to learn more about it so that we can do this.
Kerri Lemoie: Sorry to do this but put you on the spot a little bit to talk about accessibility.
Sharon Leu: Okay.
Sharon Leu: I think that you described it pretty well there are some rules that I think are important for us to discuss from a compliance with just US regulations. This is really important for the education task force because working with educational institutions means products that they use.
Sharon Leu: Anything that they offer needs to be fully compliant so I think that's like a key aspect of it but I think like putting aside the term accessibility there is to your other point about what happens when people need to access any of the tools that are created that are against these standards and I think those are all really interesting conversations probably separate but.
Sharon Leu: Happy to do think about this more once it gets a little closer to that day.
Kerri Lemoie: Awesome thank you very much.
Kerri Lemoie: Accessibility / access in the list.
Kerri Lemoie: John you are in the queue.
John Kuo: Yeah I wanted to mention accessibility should also be in one consideration of it should be access to technology as well there is the whole 5-way compliance and could regulation stuff and we're taking that into consideration during exercise but the other thing that we're going to be.
John Kuo: Focusing on not Not everyone will have the ability you know free access to
John Kuo: Leverage the technologies
John Kuo: So we should have at least some standards are guidelines around them.
John Kuo: For socioeconomic reasons.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Phil Long?
Phillip_Long_(T3): Yes hi can you hear me.
Kerri Lemoie: I can hear you.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Okay I just a plus one on that last comment from John and I know you mentioned it is one of the dimensions of accessibility but from Sharon's list of wallet providers conversations with the DiWalla who have primarily focused on the African Community in Nigeria Uganda in that area.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Suggest we invite their cto to participate because they're addressing this at the back end in ways that would be worthwhile for us to hear about. John just alluded to the fact they're trying to do that at the back end of a tln and pocket as well so just a suggestion.
Kerri Lemoie: That's great thank you and making notes on that Mattr they did something similar like this with vaccinations.
<sharon_leu> We also thought the Tykn wallet gives an interesting approach.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Moving on to the next one.
Kerri Lemoie: A multiple issuers. the description we have here is recommended practices.
Kerri Lemoie: Expressing multiple issuers.
Kerri Lemoie: Example to cooperating universities are issuing a VC
Kerri Lemoie: Is there anyone that wants to explain that a little more.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure I can explain it and so the topic was brought up I think it was last year or maybe the year before by Anthony. Who asked a question on the VC spec on the VC data model spec repository of in the cases where there are two joint issuers not just two different universities can I share the same type of potential but specifically say it's an exchange student and it is specifically two issuers of a specific credential. How should that be expressed in the data model.
Dmitri Zagidulin: There are several options.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Multiple signatures is one option.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I know there's there's been recent discussion on the mailing list about that on the email list specifically.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Option and I over on the links.
<kerri_lemoie> Multiple issuers supported?
Dmitri Zagidulin: The spreadsheets I give a link to the pull request where the original discussion has happened another option is to create a joint entities would still a single issuer but composing consisting of multiple universities so multiple signatures composite entity versus other approaches.
Dmitri Zagidulin: All of that I should be discussed and decided and we can give a best practice recommendation off what to do in those cases.
Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you for the explanation.
Kerri Lemoie: Simone
Simone Ravaoli: Comment on multiple issuers. Europe does have a use case around joint degrees that are already popular around the EU education area but there is something else in the works. This notion of a European degree being drafted by the European Commission as we speak so the ideally this emergent university consortium that are contributing to the design and issuing of credentials. Therefore we may have use cases coming from Europe targeting this multiple issuers topic more and more.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you.
John Kuo: Might be a t Hird way to handle this thinking about with respect to a credential in that you could issue a related credential to it that's a recognition so that it would be the equivalent so there's only one original credentials and then leverage a relationship they say okay this issue separate University but linked to the initial issuer and considered to be equivalent and they could be presented.
<dmitri_z> that's a great point, John!
John Kuo: Leveraging elationship that's embedded just just another possible option.
Kerri Lemoie: Absolutely and actually Simone and John it may be very helpful to put those comments into the issue that us that it was set up by Anthony. the one that I just put in the chat.
Dmitri Zagidulin: So I actually that issue has been closed but I know that the newly chartered VC data model 2.0 working group actually has is tracking multiple issuers as one work item so I think we should open a new issue with these suggestions.
Kerri Lemoie: Good idea. I'm making a note follow up on that.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Yeah just want to point out this sounds very similar to endorsements and perhaps Marty might be interested in commenting on this but it sounds very much like endorsements in the teacher certification round.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Institution to another institutions.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Potential and I just want to highlight that overlap because it's a different use case but it sounds like it is in terms of an implementation strategy comparable.
Kerri Lemoie: It makes sense too thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Moving on to the next one keeping an eye on the clock here.
Kerri Lemoie: VPs versus nested VC's in education context. This comes up quite a bit.
Kerri Lemoie: Marty, Phil, and who else were all working on the complex credentials and also has come up the IMS CLR group.
Kerri Lemoie: I put it here because I think somethings have them figured out but I think we need many more discussions and just more understanding of VP's overall and like how they you know sometimes that people have about VC's what it means if you have nested PCS in terms of identity as there's a lot of questions and a lot of misunderstandings or also a lot of ways it can get implemented that haven't been documented.
Kerri Lemoie: So it's just a lot to to talk about and we probably should really dig into this and understand it best so that we can figure out what to recommend to folks and so that we can all know what to do.
Kerri Lemoie: See if there's anyone have anything on that topic.
Marty Reed: Yes I think a key piece to this
Marty Reed: Is the ID of persistence.
Marty Reed: And how that whatever whatever that object is how it persists beyond the initial presentation the original initial originating issuance.
Marty Reed: That's one area.
Marty Reed: Should be your part of that discussion is persistence and then and then to Phil's point earlier.
Marty Reed: Multiple issuers really embedded issuers.
Marty Reed: Are really overlays even from a K-12 perspective of the state issuing a transcript on behalf of a district that is authored by a school. A lot of nuance there.
Marty Reed: Also bring up the transcript is called the transcript supplement or the diploma supplement from the EU perspective.
Marty Reed: As well part of this are.
Kerri Lemoie: That's good thank you I just want to say I'm really excited about this Auto transcriber so that we have notes later.
Kerri Lemoie: Have notes later.
Kerri Lemoie: If no one has anything else on this move on to credential display logic.
Kerri Lemoie: Dmitri, I believe you added this one to the list.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah so one of the questions that we often get asked by wallet implementers and by issuers is so say we have a credential let's say a course completion or graduation credential.
Dmitri Zagidulin: And how do we give suggestions on how wallet formats
Dmitri Zagidulin: The display.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Because at the moment each wallet essentially decides for themselves how to format a given credential.
Dmitri Zagidulin: But it would be nice to have the ability to.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Help the credential be displayed in a similar way across different devices across different companies wallets for example the open badges that allows an image to be embedded in the credential.
<deb_everhart> comment on this interface-- it sometimes makes my laptop overheat, and today seems to be worse-- I don't know if that could be related to the updates
Dmitri Zagidulin: So various walls can just display that image.
Dmitri Zagidulin: There's other issues more complicated than that because a lot of times you need it.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Template you know the name and University.
Dmitri Zagidulin: And some good Explorations about it and this group is well-positioned to make recommendations about it.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you. Did you also add... checking the queue
John Kuo: We're obviously struggling with this a little bit as well as one of our Solutions if it's not too much individual credentials play for which we actually are trying to create a standard set of you know ux rules for.
John Kuo: Your lifetimes credentials to be useful to the user and user-friendly way are not presented atomically presented in a group or a collection so we're trying to create a sort of echo some collection.
John Kuo: Sports both presentation of the credential by presentation at the u.s. little as well kind of embedding implicit display rules into the business objects collection what.
John Kuo: Dr. collection there would be for a class you that could be two primary credentials of all 21 would be in Roma credential the other would-be completion natural subjects during the status of whether or not the class was completed.
John Kuo: Another would-be you know since we have by coconut construction skill credentials all connections with the same type would be the same collection but no they come from possibly different sources how is all that organized The Collection is intended to both support like a group presentation you know for.
John Kuo: To support some ux play trolls.
Kerri Lemoie: Smg4 saying that it's great.
<kayode_ezike> Along the lines of display logic is error logging
Kerri Lemoie: Okay integration with existing systems.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I'm not sure if I did but essentially it's a lot of topics to discuss on.
Dmitri Zagidulin: So let's say we come up with credentials data models and protocols how do we integrated with existing Learning Management systems with existing databases running on the University's.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah and that's actually a big topic.
Kerri Lemoie: Like what.
<phillip_long_(t3)> That encompasses university integration but also HR system implementation for businesses
Kerri Lemoie: I think we need to do because we're going to have to do some kind of bridging.
Kerri Lemoie: An example of that is using email addresses.
Kerri Lemoie: An influential subject IDs and how email addresses are are ubiquitous and well understood.
Kerri Lemoie: Kathy well into the VC bottle but you know what can we do to make that work in a different things like the DC.
Kerri Lemoie: Having both email address and possibly print the subject it in the BC so there's all sorts of things to consider there just to start things I can think of my head.
Marty Reed: Well I don't know if this is right place for this but also when I think about existing system out something about regulatory requirements and.
Marty Reed: Consider
Marty Reed: Licensing scenario the the PDF must be visually inspected by a license or specialist in order to verify that they believe that that presentation is true and hasn't been modified so.
Marty Reed: Regulatory.
Marty Reed: Is a big topic that will.
Marty Reed: Emerge.
Dmitri Zagidulin: That's a great point and I think the next item of governance touches on that as well regulatory pressures.
Kerri Lemoie: Just before we get there I just wanted to call on Simone who is in the queue right now
Simone Ravaoli: Well I was going where Dmitri was
Simone Ravaoli: With connection to the governance piece.
<phillip_long_(t3)> It's both an integration issue and a training issue on the part of these regulators.
Simone Ravaoli: Another exiting system could be the regulatory environment of the governance and trust of issuers
Simone Ravaoli: How does that play technically with the integrations piece but also politically the pure governance aspect so there is a connection in the way we think about existing systems.
Simone Ravaoli: It goes from LMSes to registries that may exist
<phillip_long_(t3)> Transcriber is having trouble LOL
Simone Ravaoli: Or regulatory environments.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that's very true actually all around I think that when I put governance in here I was specifically thinking of trust Registries and topic related specifically to VC's and it could be expanded to include this
John Kuo: For me I'll be this is very closely related with the previous row your governance.
John Kuo: You know Educational Systems are made up of lots of different fiefdoms and usually there's not a sole owner to even the data that's needed for issuing a lot of these credentials.
John Kuo: And there's lots of internal regulations.
John Kuo: Around like who owns the data what you're allowed to do with it so just navigating that Labyrinth being a relationship is with each educational institution and the governance that the institution is going to be a big challenge.
Kerri Lemoie: We have about 10 minutes left to get through these. .
<phillip_long_(t3)> Data ownership is probably a separate issue
Kerri Lemoie: Prioritizing is.
Kerri Lemoie: So protocols.
Kerri Lemoie: We also talked about this to that much of the work of the VC is about the data model but what about the protocols.
Kerri Lemoie: And there's a lot of work being done in that and how do we how do we settle on that in education.
Kerri Lemoie: Dmitri did you have anything where you want to add on that other than what's in the description.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I think that's.
Kerri Lemoie: Bridging Tech.
Kerri Lemoie: W3c email and this is also related to existing systems but slightly different. slightly different though.
Kerri Lemoie: Same Category.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah I think the combination of existing some systems and row 9 protocols.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah okay let's get together in this area.
Kerri Lemoie: # 11 Is image file handling I think this also ties into the display logic stuff.
Kerri Lemoie: Do you guys think so.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Agreed yup
Kerri Lemoie: Also a big topic.
Kerri Lemoie: Also the revoking and refreshing of credential status.
Kerri Lemoie: We want to be able to discuss I think it's pretty clear we have potential status there's different ways of doing that and there's also this newer concept of refreshing.
Kerri Lemoie: And they're somewhat related.
Kerri Lemoie: Number 13: context file for VC-EDU
<phillip_long_(t3)> Credential status is emerging as a big topic for the VC CCG, provoked recently by Anil.
Kerri Lemoie: Something I've been wanting to discuss for a long time which is have a simple contacts file that is specific for vc-edu that could describe an achievement claim in a very simple way. maybe it could be used for other things that aren't being approached by other standards bodies yet.
Kerri Lemoie: It could provide examples for those standards orgs who are looking to align with VC-EDU so I'm we like to visit that has a topic at some point.
Kerri Lemoie: Checking the queue...
Kerri Lemoie: I think 14 linking BC's and resources artifacts is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Is also similar to 11.
Kerri Lemoie: Is that similar to 11? okay.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah.
Kerri Lemoie: We'll clean up is this list before we do the prioritizing.
Kerri Lemoie: Next - Lifehash
Kerri Lemoie: Billy can hear.
Kerri Lemoie: II put this in here as really interesting topic.
Kerri Lemoie: I think it's really cool and I'll just put the link in here and I bet there's really interesting ways that we could use this in education, It may not ever be part of the model or anything but it might inspiring in some way.
Kerri Lemoie: It is way to visually display a hash uniquely and pretty cool looking.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm not it. There's a video you should watch the video to learn about it more.
Kerri Lemoie: We're almost there.
Kerri Lemoie: 16 Is working with T3 and LERN on endorsements. Endorsements is something we could use in the model doc and potentially add to the VC-EDU context file.
Kerri Lemoie: Phil Long, I think you may be the person to speak to this item.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Yeah thanks thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Simply an attempt to try to pull together the different conversations in one place so that we're not having three different sets of them and respective silos. I know it's been a conversation at the HR open Community. I know it's been a conversation here, a conversation at T3 and for all I know maybe in many others. so I think it would be wise to try to pull these things together and save ourselves some calendar time but also to bring together the different perspectives that these different organizations have as priorities and see if we can't work out a way to make endorsement work for everybody.
Phillip_Long_(T3): You're right that this does relate to the previous conversations in a couple of different ways.
Phillip_Long_(T3): Both in terms of complex issuance and things like that but the standard thing we're thinking about here is really in the context of an individual making an endorsement to another individual's credential to give credibility to or third-party verification for the assertion both corroborating what might be in the institutional issue credential for subject but also corroborating what might be in a self-sorted credential by an individual about something they've learned and and wanting to take advantage of external knowledgeable people for whom their attestation to that ended the subjects ability to do whatever it is, is reinforced.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay next on our list us wallet presentations. we really want to do a lot more of those this year. this is multiple teams or countries working on wallet pilots right now and we'd like to get more demonstrations and see what they're doing and how they're approaching of Education credentials.
Kerri Lemoie: And then number 18 is pilot demonstration - similarly.
<phillip_long_(t3)> What I don't see on the list is conformance testing - or guidance about test suites.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah next week on our agenda, while we figuring out the prioritizing is a Julian Fraichot from Highland Credentials who's going to present on blockcerts and verifiable credentials. We'd like to do keep doing more of those to keep us all in the loop on the work that we're all doing. If you're interested in doing this please reach out to us. You can talk to me send a message to the mailing list, any which way and we'll get you on the calendar.
Kerri Lemoie: Number 19
Kerri Lemoie: VC subjects and holders in EDU.
Kerri Lemoie: I added this.
Kerri Lemoie: So we have concepts of Guardianship and the differences between like a subject of a credential and the holders of the credential.
<phillip_long_(t3)> Guardianship is its own topic
Kerri Lemoie: And there's always like some tension in these topics and as with VP's and VC's it seems like this is one that we really should dig into from an edu perspective as well.
Kerri Lemoie: Checking the queue to see if anyone has anything.
Kerri Lemoie: Right now I know of at least one project that
Kerri Lemoie: Is doing guardianship credentials so I can check in with them to see if they can join us.
Kerri Lemoie: A couple more here. We really want to just like talk more about PII information, selective disclosure, what can go into these credentials and what should be protected, how does Selective disclosure work, which wallets are participating. So that's a topic definitely we should be talking about.
Kerri Lemoie: Conformance testing.
Kerri Lemoie: Did someone else here add conformance testing?
Simone Ravaoli: I just did Kerri. I picked it up from the chat where Phil mentioned it.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay.
Kerri Lemoie: I think your guardianship I think kind of falls in with line number 19.
Kerri Lemoie: Great.
Kerri Lemoie: Simone, You're going to work out a way for us to prioritize these and let us know how we can do that.
Simone Ravaoli: Yep.
Simone Ravaoli: Exactly. SO I'm going to take this list, massage it a little bit,
Simone Ravaoli: Dand turn it to something we can express a preference on ideally order the list in terms of priorities and that's what's going to help us keep the focus of the priorities straight.
<deb_everhart> thanks, great list!
Kerri Lemoie: That's awesome and don't worry if you're not ready to demonstrate. We'll get to that at some point. It doesn't need to be added to the list.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay - so that's where we're headed and like I said next week we'll look forward to Julien Fraichot to presenting to us and we'll talk about use cases again.
Kerri Lemoie: That's great everybody. thank you so much. I'm interested to see how this chat transcription turned out.
<marty_reed> great work!
Kerri Lemoie: Have a great week.
<phillip_long_(t3)> Cheers
<sharon_leu> thanks!
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you.