<kerri_lemoie> HI folks - if you have trouble hearing, please try Firefox or safari and if you can, please list what browser and version you are using when you can't hear.
<kerri_lemoie> Repeating this for folks just going us:
<phil> No audio on Ubuntu / Chromium
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Hello happy Monday February 7th and this is a verifiable credentials for Education called I'll keep in mind that this call is being Auto transcribed and we've been sort of contending with issues on and off with this so I'm I would ask for your help with this makes it a lot easier for us to publish the minutes if I'm you could lend us a hand and so what happens is you will see the transcriber in the in the chat. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: The transcriber literally butchers words that's we use them as we say them so what you can do is actually do a substitution if you notice this so I'm for instance I'm going to do it one right here where I'm going to do you'll see it in the chat these sub s /i'm say that period and then that so in the chat you can see this substitution and that's what you can do as well anybody can do this. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And what happens is when we run the script. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: To publish the minutes it will pick up on all these substitutions and make them so if we do it in real time it's a lot easier and takes a lot less time to publish the minutes then if we have to go through the whole meeting and do it ourselves so and it's okay if more than one person does the same substitution not a problem so thank you for help. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay seven get started with the boiler a boiler plate and then will I will get into our agenda this could be a pretty short meeting depending on the discussions that come up and we don't have a presentation today so we're going to be looking at these cases document and also the priorities that we've been discussing for BC edu for this year. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Proposed agenda is this first is the IP note anyone can participate in these calls however all substitutive contributors to any ccg work items must be members of the ccg with full IP our agreement side must ensure that you have a W3 account and that you have agreed to the w3c community contributors license agreement. ✪
Topic: Call Notes
Kerri Lemoie: Second as I mentioned there are this meeting is being recorded and there is a transcription that is occurring so everything is archived and if you missed a call in the future or you want to look at past meetings you can always do this at this Lake right here. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Put this in the chat from the meeting archives. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And next is that we use a queue system in the ccg when we are having discussions this makes it possible for everybody to get into the queue and to be able to say what they need to say or ask the questions they need to ask we do this by typing Q + to add yourself to the Q no see that that puts me in the queue right there and then if you want to take yourself out of the queue you say q-and it will remove you from the queue. ✪
Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions
Kerri Lemoie: Next introductions and reintroductions is there anyone new here today that would like to make an introduction. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Anyone who's been here before they would like to reintroduce themselves or give us an update on something you're working on. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: If so feel free to queue yourself at any time and we were we'll get to that Dimitri would you follow the chat for me because I'm using Safari to make sure that I can hear okay and the Safari chat doesn't scroll automatically sometimes I miss things thank you and I thank you to those who are doing the substituting in the chat really appreciate that okay announcements and reminders so. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I always listed here I don't see anything new in this calendar but just keep an eye on here we want to see what is going on also registration is open for the internet identity Workshop. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I have put a link to this in the tab as well. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: They are planning on doing this in person is April 26 April 28th in Mountain View California at the Computer History Museum. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So far I've only attended these virtually I would like to go in person I don't know if that will happen this year but I encourage you to join if you're able to. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Chris Kelly I see you in the queue. ✪
<frank_cicio> sorry cant hear anyone
Chris_Kelly_(DIF): Hi I just wanted to jump in here I am responsible for communications at the decentralized identity Foundation the last if we are organizing our own networking and co-working event and use still purely virtual as a nice counterpart to iiw which I do hope to attend in person it's called DIFcon and. ✪
Chris_Kelly_(DIF): In approximately two weeks by gather town and zoom with a variety of report outs from our groups workshops and demos and it would be okay I'll drop a link to the event right sign up page during the chat it is completely free and open to everybody not just the dick membership so it's a great way to take care of what we're doing and get involved. ✪
Chris_Kelly_(DIF): The 24th of February is the first one serving European and North American time zones and then a week later we have an aipac and asia-pacific follow-up to serve those time zones which will continue the conversations. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Excellent thank you for sharing that. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And does anybody have anything they would like to add to the agenda and I'll tell you what we're going to work on next we do have room if you do have something you'd like to add first we're going to be looking at the progress on these cases document we're going to be reviewing to GitHub issues and then we're going to be looking at the VC-EDU priorities and discuss managing and and and volunteering. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay okay where do we get into these cases then. ✪
Topic: Use Cases
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to put a link in the chat. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: The use cases document all of you should be able to access this and it should be open to anyone to comment if you would like to do some editing on this just drop me a line and I'll add you as an editor I'm not going to share my screen because there's been occasions where screen sharing causes the transcriber to stop or the recording to stop so because it's a document you can all open I'm just going to put it in the chat there actually I'm going to label it. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So as you can see at the top or in this document I've been going through these cases I've been submitted in b.c. edu and I've been following the format of the VC abuse cases document and going through and adding as many user needs technology needs you know as much as I can find in what we have discussed and what we've documented in here and then I started started writing some content and students introduction. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: This will be taken directly from the VC files so we're just going to reference as an external document because there's no need to rewrite what is already well written and documented and then we have the user roles we have this Core Concepts section which will write and then the user roles the part that I've really been focusing on if you scroll down is user needs and actually right above that is Reliant third party which is something that we don't have. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Sit anywhere else we've typically only spoken about the verifier and not relying third party I'm putting that in there for discussion at some point once you start digging into this document with others because I think there's a case to be made in education where they could be verifying services but also Reliant their parties who are not actually doing the verifying and that seems to be coming up in the use cases quite a bit. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so what is there to do it was filling in. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Content this first one you one digital transcript was already there so it's not bad it's actually from the VC use cases document and then started filling in the rest so grade point average attendance enrollment and I started writing writing from a third-person perspective with names which is normally what I do but then I found it started getting much easier if I just wrote it from a first-person perspective. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I could look at it like oh yeah I am someone that has a list of badges in my wallet and I want to do this so I don't know I'm going back and forth on that once we have more more folks involved in here we can play around with that I found it easier to write write some of the use cases by doing that so the point is to try and list as many of these as possible. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Then you can see there's still some to fill in and then once we get down to. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Technology needs that's going to get more specific and they were going to have like the focal use cases in the focal use cases is actually going to look more like what you've been submitting and these cases documents where it's actually going to step through various steps of these so the above descriptions are just very small and the focal use cases will be more examples of how it actually works. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Unlikely at the very bottom we will have some examples but not examples for everything examples of code because that will go into the modeling doc fix so my goal is to make extreme progress on this this week and the following week actually until we're hopefully by the end of February we're pretty close to having done those of you who are already editors on here feel free to start jumping in and if you'd like to be an editor just let me know and we're just going to work on it asynchronously and if that becomes too much we can. ✪
<deb_everhart> I'll need to dive in and make specific suggestions-- have not had time to do that yet
Kerri Lemoie: Okay well that's the saddest of you skids is right now I'm going to keep going ahead because this is one of the work items at this group needs to deliver to them to the ccg keep in mind that it's a draft work item so even when we deliver it could change in the future but hopefully it does the work intended to guide the work that we're all doing with pilots and implementation and other decisions that are being made. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So why don't we all move on to some the ticket issues I'm going to give you a link to a spreadsheet that the chairs have been working out of. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Here most are not going to share my my screen I'm sorry about that until I feel more confident and I feel like it's better to give this to you you can also open this so this is a spreadsheet chat here. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: You could all go there that would be helpful that's where we're going to stick for now. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so in the second tab so the first tab the topics in ranking this is the results of the community voting this isn't exactly the order we're going to go in this is a the input that we got to help us decide how to weigh the different topics you'll see what I mean as we get into this. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Try to organize the the topics in issues and see how they are related and then what we could we should do is create separate issues in the GitHub repository where we can discuss all of this and you can see for example that I'm ro7 I've already paid an issue for context file for VC edu and I'm going to put the link to that. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So the reason even though this came up as number 15 in the ranking by the community it is actually work that's happening another standards bodies right now so it makes sense to get going on this over the next few weeks so that we have alignment because once we have context files in place even if they're just draft context files people can start piloting and this is where we're headed pretty quickly right now so we want to make sure that's available. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So I'd first thing I want to do it this list actually is go to the bottom to line 21 and line 23 these are GitHub issues that have been open for some time. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I'd like to look at them with you and see where we are with them and see if potentially we should just close them. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Before I do Phil Long, I see you're on the queue assuming PL that's you okay. ✪
PL: Yeah I just wanted to yeah that's me in the topics list of the are the issues column in the VC edu meeting topics linking these he's there I just wanted to point out that that's where endorsements would fit. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that's fine so what you can do to get her positive education GitHub repositories you can link to other other issues so you can link to more than one so I'm putting it in there as a note so we make sure to keep those linked. ✪
PL: And of course the other question in this is is which of these things are more generally VC C CG topics and where does the FEC ccg lens onto the topic not cover or insufficient recover an edu important aspect. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah if they take some notes on that as we go through each one before we get to that abuse and you go through these two that we want to evaluate the ones that have been around for a long time thank you. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Is it the first one is this one right here this is extracting data and a PDF format from ABC put the GitHub repo link in the chat. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And my suggestion is that this is probably not a VC-EDU topic also that it is related to the Ellie are wrapper which we're focusing on Native alignment right now so my suggestion is that we could close this. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Does anyone have any thoughts on that. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Does anyone have any objections to that. ✪
<pl> Sounds reasonable. Is it actually a topic for later about non-native credential payloads?
Deb Everhart: So sorry but can someone just explain to me in plain English what what this issue is the saying I think it looks like it's a it's a general VC issue and not specifically if you see edu but I'm not sure I understand exactly what it's asking for here. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Sure thank you I was making I can do my best to explain it the lar wrapper which was a recommendation or at least a reference that we were all looking at a couple of years ago but we're not working with any more but the LER Wrapper had a something called the payload and the payload was intended to accommodate all different types of credentials. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Is doing native alignment to verifiable credentials meaning that for instance I am s open badges is going to have typically or up till the 2.1 has a certian its own type of assertion and said we're going to replacing that with alignment to the VC model. ✪
<pl> AKA here we're talking about only JSON-LD payloads
Kerri Lemoie: They are rapper the difference would was that there would be sort of the envelope layer of the assertion and then there would be a payload and the payload would be the open badge containing its assertion information but we're moving on from that at this stage so this issue number three reflects how it would happen how we would insert a PDF into an Lar. ✪
PL: Just to clarify it maybe it helpful to say we're talking about only those circumstances where the lar wrapper space you would have considered the pelota json-ld payload and that's the only thing we're considering here. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Yes sorry thank you that's a good clarification when I said natively aligned to VC's that's exactly what I meant which Phil said Thank you so as much clearer so in this this GitHub issue it is a is inserting non non json-ld data in a VC envelope. ✪
Deb Everhart: So is the question if for that non json-ld data. ✪
Deb Everhart: When it's a PDF is this just about being able to recognize it as a PDF and be able to do things with it as a PDF or is this somehow trying to reconcile the PDF payload with the information in the json-ld payload. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Well this is in reference to including a PDF in a verifiable credential as the payload of the verifiable credential. ✪
Deb Everhart: Which is something that VC's already do right so Dimitri please jump in and help me understand I'm sorry to be done. ✪
Dmitri Zagidulin: No I'm also telling myself it's a very specifically about that we are rap but I wanted to add that. ✪
Dmitri Zagidulin: Also linked to the issue in the VC data model that was an internal mechanism to link to external. ✪
Dmitri Zagidulin: Resources like PDFs like images which is slightly related but maybe that's what the opener meant. ✪
<pl> @Deb - you can encode a PDF to natively present it, but that's not as a payload, which is JSON-LD
Kerri Lemoie: I'm happy to keep it open if we want to link to that way if that's what folks that we should do my only suggestion would be that there might be some kind of confusion with the lar approach versus what we're going to be doing with link resources we could clarify that later I just keep this open and close it later once we've figured that out. ✪
Dmitri Zagidulin: I mean my vote would be let's close it but also add the comment. ✪
PL: Yeah just to respond to Deb's comment it you know one this doesn't mean that you can't do for example encoding of a PDF in a in another encoding scheme just to present the document as a document I think what we're which very specifically referring to is that the the general structure of the payload itself has to be json-ld is so if you had an image file or you had a PDF or. ✪
PL: In in base64 based 50 56 or something like that as a line that would be permissible within a json-ld structure but but it wouldn't be permissible in this particular case to have the everything that is after the context file a PDF. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: What I want to do for now is but I will put a comment in here and close it Dmitri would you mind putting a link to the issue you created about link resources can't seem to find that I think it might be helpful for folks to sir thank you. ✪
<dmitri_zagidulin> (and I'll add a comment to the issue
Kerri Lemoie: Give you folks a minute to pull this up and have a look at this one too. ✪
<dmitri_zagidulin> Leonard Rosenthal's presentation
<pl> Or perhaps better stated in a presentation the thing the presentation encloses shouldn't be a PDF but a VC as JSON-LD
Kerri Lemoie: One of the suggestions and the chairs were talking about this was I don't know if you all remember about a while back we had someone from Adobe speak about how to use Adobe Center to embed information in it and one thought that we had was to invite that person back to talk about how we can do this. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So what we could do is make a note in this one and then set up for a call where this can be discussed in detail. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: That's my suggestion for this one. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Does anybody have any thoughts on that. ✪
<simone_ravaioli> Leonard Rosenthol (Adobe) maybe
Kerri Lemoie: Okay great so that's what we'll do with those to thank you for doing this housekeeping it helps to move forward on the other things and helps to figure out where it all sits. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so here's our mission now for the next part of this call is in back to that spreadsheet in the Tab 2 or we have the list of issues. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: We've done our best to say okay these are the topics and these are some somehow they align that they might be further alignments later there might be more topics later but this is what we have right now and what were wondering is if there's anybody in this community who would like to take the lead or at least participate in the work on some of these issues so that we could do some of these in parallel because as co-chairs we will only go so fast on these things and we could use some. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Participation so that we can move faster. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: So we're wondering if there's anybody here who sort of wants to go like sees anything on this list that standing out to them and said this is something that's really important to the work that I'm doing so I'm going to participate in this maybe even take the lead out of it. ✪
Dmitri Zagidulin: And if I could jump in actually I'm getting an echo from whoever's calling in from the phone if you don't mind muting. ✪
FN2f13d34e3a476c76ebacac2f0277815b: I could just not getting it. ✪
<deb_everhart> wrt the issues tab or the topics tab?
Dmitri Zagidulin: So I wanted to say in case participation is items sounds daunting participation can be as simple as open a GitHub issue reach out to some people that you think might know about the topic encourage them to present or speak briefly to State the problem on a call right involvement can be very minimal but it is great to get you involved. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Deb this is regard to the issues tab so it's the second tab in the spreadsheet so when to the right of topics in drinking. ✪
<pl> I'd be happy to take the Linked VCs and VC-Es with someone more knowledgeable than I on JSON-LD syntax ;-)
Kerri Lemoie: So you'll see I'm row 7 we've created that issue for the context file for VC I do so that's an example I bet there are others on this call who are very interested in a context file for btig you if you like to work on this with us you could let us know or you could actually go right into that that issue and start making comments in there and share your thoughts. ✪
<deb_everhart> yes, add me and Phil Barker to issue 11 in the spreadsheet
Kerri Lemoie: As we go through we fail we can start looking to see status on these things and see if anybody would like to update us and it keeps sort of working and I could get that way I'm going to catch up on the chat here so give me a moment. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay Phil I think the last person to see in here. ✪
<phil> yes, add me and Deb Everhart to issue 11 in the spreadsheet
Kerri Lemoie: Mentioning this but let me know if I missing anybody to feel what I see is you'd be happy to work on the link feces topic so that is row 6. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Awesome so I will create issues for for all of those so we have those in the repository so we can have that to keep track of and I'm for those of you who may not have been here in previous calls what we're trying to do with this endorsements is actually do cross Network approach to this bill is involved with a T3 Network and and HR open is that feel right people. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah I'm so that's or trying to do. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Coordinated effort on how to do endorsements with PCs. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And it's interested in any of these issues particularly I'm going to put thrown a I know you are I've been having trust in the international sensation row so I'm listing you there. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I think that on integrate with existing system seems going to go through these now a little by little now that we've looked at them sort of loosely and casually so integration with existing systems is something that will be ongoing and will really be revisiting it off and probably broken up into several conversations and topic so there may not even be a leading issue for that but I put it there just in case someone would like to work on them. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: The presentations versus nested verify the credentials in the education context this is covered quite a bit in the higher ed transcript space I think it is mostly figured out now but we might do is a call on explaining the difference so people can understand what verify appeared in presentations are and and discuss nested credentials so that you know while the providers and those can understand what we expected from education. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Last week we already had a call on internationalisation some money will be updating this in the near future about Canada that would be very interesting credential display logic is something we're going to want to get into in this is how education displays education credentials display in wallets. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I imagine they may be some wallet folks I would like to help lead those efforts and I'm happy to reach out to see if they will. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Skip six we already talked about it seven we already discussed two number eight we thought it would be really great to have a session or multiple sessions I'm protocols and what that means. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And because we don't actually talk about protocols very often in this space we talked about data and modeling but not actually how data gets from one place to another so we like to do more of that. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay number nine is bridging Tech which we're going to be doing throughout. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And I will be discussing that in these cases document as well. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I never turned governance is really interesting I think this is also tied to internationalisation because I think it is different different parts of the world so I'm going to add internationalisation to that. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Found that with you too for put my name in there. ✪
<deb_everhart> you can also add me under endorsements
Kerri Lemoie: Provoking refreshing credential status likely will have someone visiting us from ccg but also this is this is a sec GBC issue not just BC edu and I know I'm actually in many of these that is the case right protocols that's pretty cross sector not just education governance may have a more of an education spin to it revoking refreshing it will have and. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Does it will be an overall functionality with education use cases that will be very specific. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I guardianships also is not only specific to education but we do know some projects where this is happening and this ties to delegation possibly Prudential chaining and those types of issues that are critical disgust for security and privacy. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: It's number 14 of probably it's related to all of the things and 13 and then we have performance testing and I'm 15. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And then down below below the ticket issues we have personal data storage. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: I'm sorry Deb's first and then Dimitri. ✪
Deb Everhart: Housekeeping know you can add me to endorsements and also sort of housekeeping but pii selective disclosure is separate well so that's line 14 is potentially three topics that can be usefully split out Pi I which may be you know like usefully addressed via did group I'm not sure. ✪
Deb Everhart: I selected disclosure which would probably also be addressed as a subset of pii but then there's also selective disclosure for information about the information within the credential does that make sense. ✪
Deb Everhart: But we should also have credential information selective disclosure as a separate thing. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: And when you say that do you mean things like if there's a list of skills in say it open badge that maybe only one would be revealed as part of selective disclosure. ✪
Deb Everhart: Potentially but also just simple things like degree snow and then more information about that degree. ✪
Sharon Leu: I'm not in the sky sorry I couldn't figure out because I'm using I had to use Safari or sorry and then I couldn't anyway yes let's definitely talk a little bit more about that I didn't say anything because I feel like I don't I don't have like a solid plan in mind yet but that's definitely something on my sort of on my radar indefinitely in my work plan for the next couple of months. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks that's great we'll put you there and I'm appreciate having your contact info in there. ✪
<deb_everhart> nothing like volunteering other people ;-)
PL: Yeah I just wanted to to link as I think I said before I'll swear to that the selective disclosure to me is also linked to protocol the protocol discussion because we haven't yet as far as I can tell Dimitri you may know more about this talked about the way in which the protocol itself elicits a back-and-forth dialogue in disclosure more information. ✪
PL: Another one of the things I am interested in this personal storage in terms of locations where evidence might be started so I'm not love to have someone else were several others the interest we are interested in in that join join on that one but I'll at least put my name down. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: Okay this is the spreadsheet is accessible to all of you you can add to it if you would like you can consider looking at these what I'm going to do over the course of this week and next is actually create the issues and put the links in the spreadsheet and I can send an email when that's done and you can go and sort of read the descriptions and ask questions even that's a great way to participate like if the content is it makes sense to you and you want to know more it's okay to put that in the comments. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: For those of you who don't use GitHub regularly. ✪
Kerri Lemoie: To do this but it's just like an account anywhere you won't need to use your download code or anything like that you can just use it as a common commenter and to be able to view what's going on. ✪
<pl> The spreadsheet is comment only permissions.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay the queue is empty and this is what I wanted to get started on today so that we can keep things moving does anybody have anything else. ✪