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VC for Education Task Force

Transcript for 2022-06-13

Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kerri Lemoie: Hello everyone welcome to the June thirteenth verifiable credentials for Education task force called.

Topic: IP Note

Kerri Lemoie: Going to go through some boilerplate messaging like we usually do at the beginning and then we'll get going with our agenda that is the plugfest the jjf vc-edu plugfest recap first time IP note anyone can participate in these calls however also to give contributors to any ccg work items must be members of the ccg with full IP our agreement cyant you can do this by first.
Kerri Lemoie: It's creating an account.
<kerri_lemoie> create account:
Kerri Lemoie: Not the link in the chat so created account at W3C CCG.
Kerri Lemoie: And then you can create a you can join the ccg account during the ccg using this account.

Topic: Call Notes

Kerri Lemoie: And please note that these meetings are recorded we have a robot transcriber and we also do an audio recording and a video recording most times it should be a video recording for this call so if you would like to participate in the chat then please like you yourself we use that that system so if you are looking to ask a question or join.
Kerri Lemoie: Nor have.
Kerri Lemoie: The conversation or asked us to call on you please use a queue request to add yourself to the queue and then it needs q- to remove yourself from the queue.

Topic: Introductions & Reintroductions

Kerri Lemoie: Okay before we get started what we always like to do is see if there's anybody new to this call who would like to introduce themselves and if there is someone new to the coffee could you yourself we would love to have to hear from you.
Kerri Lemoie: Is there anyone.
Kerri Lemoie: Now so while we're waiting see you folks are going to kill themselves keep in mind that the robot transcriber sometimes actually pretty often misunderstands us so if you see something in the chat that you think should be fixed you can do that you can help us out with the minutes by typing the following and the chat to fix your printer as /aa.
Kerri Lemoie: Wrong Turn.
Kerri Lemoie: The correct term.
<kerri_lemoie> to fix: s/wrong/correct
Kerri Lemoie: I'm ml Ian web underscore can you are in the queue you have the floor.
Morgan_Lemmer-Webber: Hi hi this is my first time joining this meeting I'm Morgan Lumber Weber and I am working with digital bizarre doing Communications so I am mostly observing at this point.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Morgan good to have you here.
Kerri Lemoie: He was a or anybody who wants to reintroductions or updates I work that you've been doing that you'd like to tell us about.
Kerri Lemoie: It so you can add yourself to the cube.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Manu and Stuart okay next does anybody have any announcements or reminders.

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kerri Lemoie: Anything that is going on and they want to let folks know about I'm one thing we normally tell folks about is if you want to know about other meetings going on in the ccg community you can go to this link Manu you have the floor.
Phil Long: :+1:
Manu Sporny: Hey yeah so I'm trying to find a link I should have found this before we see opal ug Charter so really great news is that the verifiable credentials 20 working group past the the charter vote passed with with flying colors like really really strong support for verify credentials Ali 3C.
Manu Sporny: There was.
Manu Sporny: One formal objection but that was addressed with a suggestion well that was that was I'll probably put in the pull request here so this is this is all public information I'm sharing you know Mozilla had objected to the group mainly because we didn't mandate testing as an exit criteria for the work that we were doing.
Manu Sporny: Doing week.
Manu Sporny: It did that's usually left up to the working groups but Mozilla wanted a stronger statement around testing mic Pro Rock are ccg chair put some language in there that addressed Mozilla has concerns right now the plane seems to be to use some of the ccg test Suites that we've been experimenting with over the past couple of months to support the exit right.
Manu Sporny: Area for the.
Manu Sporny: Credentials to a working group so this is great news it means that work is going to start soon it is the charter has basically gone out to be approved by the only threesome management which is usually just an administrative thing we expect to start meeting the for the w3c technical plenary meeting which happens in September so if you are w3c member actually even if you're a community group participant you can go to that meeting.
Manu Sporny: In participating.
Manu Sporny: In meetings there that's happening in Vancouver this year so it's a hybrid meaning it's remote attendance and and in-person attendance in September so that's great news is verifiable credentials to a working group past a hurdle we were really concerned about there being formal objections but there was only one and that's been addressed in the group's moving forward the next Charter that is of relevance in the rdf data set.
Manu Sporny: Ization and hashing working group that's the thing that we need to like.
Manu Sporny: Verifiable credentials so that they can be signed the vote for that closes today there no oral objection so far so unless something comes in at the last second we hope that that charred to pass as well so that's good I mean that means that you know are ccg pipeline for creating working groups and moving work that we have been working in this ECG and elsewhere into Global standards bodies you know is working and it's healthy like there's a tremendous amount of.
Manu Sporny: Of support for it based on the votes that we.
Manu Sporny: Um so yeah that's it there's just good news you know across the board.
Kerri Lemoie: That's great news thank you so much for telling us about it is there a way to just sort of briefly let us know maybe what you see coming forward as part of the 2.0.
Manu Sporny: Yeah so the charter we had to be very explicit about you know everything we were going to work on in the charter largely let's see I'll put the charter in here so there's a link to the Charter they're sharing the group this time is Brent sundel from a vast in Christina yasuda from Microsoft of on Herman is our staff contact and has been for over a decade now I think a lot of the work.
Manu Sporny: Is going to focus on.
Manu Sporny: Krypto Switzer the actual digital signature stuff the proofs so there's a lot of work around you know the digital signatures that go into a verifiable credential there's also an opening to refine the data model and work on things like like display characteristics of a credential description so we can we can update the core model as well depending on.
Manu Sporny: On needs.
Manu Sporny: Verifiable credentials verifiable presentations requests for verifiable credentials and verifiable presentations so data models around requesting credentials kind of issuing credentials things of that nature there was a pretty strong line drawn in the standby a couple of w3c members so that we would not be able to work on protocols normatively but we were able to get in that we were definitely going to work.
Manu Sporny: Work on.
Manu Sporny: Protocols in the non-normative way provide guidance around you know protocol usage and the VC data model and the doors open for enhancing verifiable credential interoperability by working on extension vocabularies like mobile driver's license like maybe open badges citizenship vocabulary for.
Manu Sporny: Like you know permanent resident card.
Manu Sporny: Ability stuff so we are able to also work on extension vocabularies in that working group the lifetime of the working groups two years from from its start that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: That's great thank you honey you did you use before.
<phil_t3> Perhaps for those unfamiliar with the W3C process and spec dev a short description of normative vs. non-normative work might be helpful.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yes thanks quick question for Manu, do you foresee any of the work being incubated in the VC API task force to make it into the VC working group as a normative note.
Manu Sporny: We can't do it as a normative note oh sorry non-normative yes absolutely that was the that was the goal I mean there are a number of us that are really pushing hard for that we wanted it as a normative thing but like I said there was one one company particularly that pushback really strongly against that and so there's a question about how we're going to do it right I mean because the VC API stuff is being incubated in ccg and there's a question of.
Manu Sporny: Like okay.
Manu Sporny: E2 working group going to snapshot that work every now and then are they going to actually move it into the working group and so that will become like a working group work item and if that happens how do the ccg folks participate so that's still up for debate but I think yes there are number of us that are going to push very hard for publishing that as normative note in the reason we're doing that is to set up the next re chartering.
Manu Sporny: To work on protocols so you know issuance.
Manu Sporny: Calls verification protocols presentation protocols that kind of thing so all this stuff that we're doing in like jmf and incubating and all that kind of stuff the hope is that we're going to learn from all the plug fests that's going to influence the VC API in any other protocol work and then that is going to become normative work after this next iteration of the working group did that did that address your question.
Dmitri Zagidulin: It did that.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay thank you very much for that update.
Kerri Lemoie: On the only other Urban down that I have the queue is empty is it just a reminder to sign up for the VC edu email list I'm going to put that link here in the chat on this page it's actually archives page and there is a link towards like the top middle to subscribe to this list which will just be a mail to link where you can join the list we're having more and more discussions are especially about the plugfest the upcoming over to plugfest.
Kerri Lemoie: So it'd be great if you aren't on there to join.
Kerri Lemoie: You can participate in this conversation.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't see anybody else in the queue here so why don't we get started with our agenda I'm going to share my slides and bear with me while I do this.

Topic: JFF VC-EDU Recap

Kerri Lemoie: I see before I share the slides I'm going to give you a link to the slides.
Kerri Lemoie: So that you have them in case you lose me for some sort you will have these sites.
Kerri Lemoie: So these are the slides where we're going to be discussing sort of doing a recap of what happened at the jff vcsu plugfest and what our next steps are going to be let me share that screen now.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm trying to do this well I want to run here.
Kerri Lemoie: Anybody seen my / right side right now.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure sure give me a sec.
Kerri Lemoie: Demetria you do me a favor if you can share them because I think you have the like on those and try thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: A multimeter he's doing that I can tell you a little bit of what happened to we we held the plugfest last Monday in New Orleans prior to the jff horizons conference and on the call today are folks who participated I think you Dimitri yeah he's already at the top would be great on the call today are some of the participants and also share and Lou Who has really been leading this effort towards interoperability and.
Kerri Lemoie: Education and then I Dimitri.
Kerri Lemoie: And I and and Simone a as part of a VC Educators help coordinate this and it also want to give a shout-out to feel along who I took great notes all day for us okay I put hello world on there because this is essentially what this was you can move there that's fine and Marty really firm and I really just sort of name that for us and it made a lot of sense to us so the whole point of this plugfest.
Kerri Lemoie: Fast was to display an open badge.
Kerri Lemoie: In a verifiable credential wallet and this is part of the team this is the team that really sort of worked on this led by Sharon and I was some definitely a lot of support from Joan Lee and then I came Hamilton Duffy and and the co-chairs okay could you move to the next slide please to meet you.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you I stole this description of the plugfest from Sharon's introduction email so Sharon I'm going to let you take it from here but I'll read it out loud and then you can see if there's anything else to add I modified it a little bit but the point of the jff and the vcsu plugfest courage development of a large and active Market Place of learning and employment records for the technology tools and infrastructure and for the community to demonstrate true multi-vendor multi-platform.
Kerri Lemoie: All right there's robot.
Kerri Lemoie: Is a rating over me interoperability in alignment with the VC did an edgy standards those are the standards that we've been focused on we didn't really focus on protocols and really not too much with dids or signatures but really just display of the open badges 3.0 standard-a Sharon do you have anything to add to that in terms of describing with the plugfests are.
Sharon Leu: This is a good description I guess the only thing that I would add is that I think that this is not for jff this is not just a technical exercise our actual any goal is that there is interoperability of credentials for people so we have a theory of change around lifelong learning credential lifelong learning and in order to make that a reality for people we want Learners and workers to be able to.
Sharon Leu: Collect a large number of the.
Sharon Leu: Shows that they've earned regardless of where those credentials were I guess we're issued so whether formal institutions in formal education in the workplace the military community service any credential that attest to a person's abilities and skills we want them to be able to curate them themselves and create prison patients to pursue the opportunities so that is our ultimate goal for why we are pursuing this in a plug fast kind of way.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks Sharon I'm doing Jan the next slide I see I just put a little bit about jmf in which I think Sharon mostly described just said sure I do anything else you want to add about jmf overall.
Sharon Leu: I guess the only one thing I'll add not about jmf necessarily is that we jmf is working with support from the Walmart Foundation as well as with our partners at the national Governors Association and a large number of organizations that are part of the national LER advisory so I'll just say that.
Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you and two from the VC Edge you plugfest objectives these are the ones that I listed but Dimitri feel free to jump in if you have others but you know part of our Charter is really to align education training and achievement data standards with the verifiable credentials model also to increase understanding about verifiable criminals and education training really a provide a place for us to collaborate and.
Kerri Lemoie: Work together towards this and then.
Kerri Lemoie: If that's pouring then we want to recognize the vendors and the organizations who are working towards interoperability we really appreciate the work that you do we know that it's good for your your software and your projects but also it's really good for the broader Community to meet you do you have any other objectives that you would add to this.
Dmitri Zagidulin: No I think that's I think those were our main ones thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Great thank you next slide.
Kerri Lemoie: Kazuki's were the requirements for this breakfast we ask that the wallets display a VC in the version of an open badge 3.0 that we provided them open badges is not a is not been open Supernova has not been released yet but we set up a pilot version of this to be used specifically for this plugfest so we asked them to display the badge they're their wallet to display a badge image.
Kerri Lemoie: Which by the way is not actually.
Kerri Lemoie: You point out but we thought would be important to do that anyway as part of this and brought up really good questions also displayed issuer name the achievement name the achievement description and achievement criteria then optionally we said you could also be great if you want to display other fields such as it's it's your logo or other open badges terms and then as a stretch goal we said hey if you can also demonstrate that you are verifying that this batch data that would be great we didn't require.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay next.
Kerri Lemoie: This is our list of participants we have a lot of participants who is great we weren't sure who participate in it when did a really good job we had some people in person and we had others participating virtually in a very different time zones which we appreciate and I we had everyone create a short video but three minutes long that demonstrated what they did for the plugfest and how they are met these requirements and what I'd like to do is show you.
Kerri Lemoie: Three of those videos.
Kerri Lemoie: Because they're very short and I think you might find it interesting we do have a list of all of the videos available but I thought we do want to show them today just three of them and I do meet you because you're controlling the sharing I'm just going to give you want to put links in the chat you mind playing them.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Not at all go ahead go ahead.
Kerri Lemoie: Since I can't share my screen thank you alright the first one is matter it's video.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't hear any audio do you hear audio.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yep one sec I'm going to try it out right now.
Manu Sporny: Sorry no audio but I know in this is a dangerous thing you can share video in jitsi in provide the direct YouTube link and it will play for everyone I think but I've never used the feature so I have no idea.
Kerri Lemoie: You try it okay go for it Brave New World.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yep yep yep.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Eddie how's this.
Kerri Lemoie: Video sharing and I thought you left.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Okay one second I think it says that people need to consent to it give me just a second you stop screen sharing before sharing audio.
Dmitri Zagidulin: In to restart screen sharing and click screen share audio share okay got so one second.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Haha okay one moment.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Okay here we go.
Kerri Lemoie: I would get here but we can't see it.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah all good.
Dmitri Zagidulin: This video is matter it's a mission for the JFK drop podcast one for completeness we're going to show an example as shown by one more try this is this is about you so the delay this is I'm really curious to learn how to do this for future as well so okay one second so video show okay yep I think I see it I think I see it.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Chrome tabs.
Kerri Lemoie: Yep thank you.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Prince Jenny of day of its submission for the japheth and drop plugfest one for completeness we're going to show an example Assurance journey of the open badge achievement credential using matters of IDC credential provider.
Dmitri Zagidulin: This flow will result in the credential being stored and be visible and the matter wallet will start the process by using the wallet to scan a QR code that contains the discovery URL for a.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Offer the offer then gets displayed for the holder to review and decide whether to proceed what climbing the credential into their wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Wallet initiates an oid see flow through an external web view that allows the holder to authenticate themselves against the jmf identity provider the claims from the oid see token are mapped into a verifiable credential and bound to the holder's DID.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Badge achievement credential is then stored in the holders wallet and made available for viewing and presentation the matter wallet renders the display of the credential by first checking if the credential type stated in the credential itself has a corresponding layout that can be utilized when displaying the credential and the wallet itself in this case the credential type is the open badge credential which does have a pre-existing overlay and is used to display the credential that we can see here let's take a quick look at some of the additional.
Dmitri Zagidulin: National elements.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Out of the credential first you'll notice a green verified label at the top of the credential this indicates to the holder that the credential has been verified by the wallet and is confirmed as valid meaning it hasn't been tampered with or revoked we see at the bottom of the credential display that the issuer is name and web domain also have a green techniques to them this signals that the issuer's did document with successfully resolved as valid and in this case because we've used added web is correctly bound to the mentioned equipped.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Oh mein lastly let's take a look at the Json Source behind the.
Dmitri Zagidulin: If we start from the top we see the credential type we've mentioned before is included in the credential type array inside the issuer block the issuer of this credential is represented by a dead web and just under that as the name of the credential itself which is what gets displayed and as the main heading of the credential on the wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The credentialed.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Each of the claims that are being displayed by the wallet including the image which has been resolved from the URI as well as the claims the subject block also contains The Binding of the credential to the wallet through the hold is dead in this case I did key as used to represent the holder this credential is revocable so references Aid revocation list and a specific index on that list which is carried through the credential and checked by the wallet to display the credential status as part of the UI.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Finally the bottom section of the raw credential is the proof.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Case has been created over the json-ld credential using the Ed 255 1920 18s cryptographic sweet thanks for watching this walkthrough of matter submission for phase one of the jff interop plugfest.
<phil_t3> Very nice.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks to retreat and just want to move on and show the next two.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Hello everyone this is Guillermo listen though from territory mmm first we are going to give you a brief introduction about our product and about the company and then we will show you the demo for the plugfest so as territorian we believe that learning happens everywhere in a classroom outside the classroom and we create a full comprehensive learner record for each student in which we map learning experiences to the skills and competencies.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Senses that there are mastering.
Dmitri Zagidulin: We strongly believe that we need to help students to move from education to work so we don't only create a record but we really create a full ecosystem in which we help students navigate to Career Pathways we tell them their probabilities of success towards getting a certain job earning certain amount of money we tell them which are there gaps and give them recommendations of courses so that they can improve their profiles and we connect them directly to jobs so we are all about the creating.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Workforce connectivity ecosystem so we pulled.
Dmitri Zagidulin: See sides and we create a full profile of what's required we map that back to the job market requirement we map that back to the learning experiences and finally create a full profile of the student that we store in the diva wallet which use that data to compare that to the requirements of employers we find gaps and then we will back and give a students recommendations of learning experiences to fill all those gaps and the same time we connect them directly to possible jobs that they can apply.
Dmitri Zagidulin: So this is basically creating a full work first.
Dmitri Zagidulin: System now we will show you that them.
Dmitri Zagidulin: So you're seeing our smart wallet as we getting into in our smart wallet the students can navigate to multiple career Pathways they consider opportunity fit we map all their credentials and micro certifications to the job market requirements they can see their progress towards getting the jobs that they want the multiple career Pathways they can pursue and they can also Explore Learning experiences and how that will improve their profiles towards getting the jobs that they want.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Now we will show you that the little wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Curious where we store basically all the credentials of the student as you can see here we have the jff badges for the plugfest up in Bacchus troponin 0.0 so here we can see one of them it's already very fine we can see the achievement the name the description the criteria type the criteria narrative that image and the issue so we have all the data within our platform now we will show you.
<kerri_lemoie> Example badges provided here:
Dmitri Zagidulin: The credential or a batch here you can upload files URL or the Jason we will chosen the Json so that you can see that we are using what the FF provided we click save it tells us is a success now we can see the badge is not verified yet so as we click on the badge then we can verify it we use all the process with the key and the daad to Cho this verification as you can see nah.
Dmitri Zagidulin: We can see all the data related to.
Dmitri Zagidulin: And even the logo of jmf as an issue so this is basically our demo thank you very much for your time today.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Tim and pasting a link to the various video the link on the slide goes to the site.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Digital Bazaar is pleased to contribute to the VC edu interoperability plugfest sponsored by jobs for the future our mission is to help build a web we can trust our software enables privacy-preserving digital identity for individuals and organizations we have been leaders in the web standards Community for over 15 years and have worked to encourage the adoption of decentralized identity standards by government and Industry Consortium.
Dmitri Zagidulin: This plugfest is part of our commitment to true in.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Operability attracting customers by providing software solutions that work within the larger ecosystem not trying to lock those customers into proprietary Solutions the digital bizarre team has authored or edited many w3c standards track documents we'd like to highlight verifiable credentials decentralized identifiers and web KMS as Open Standards that directly support the digital wallet shown in this video thank you to the credentials community group for advancing.
Dmitri Zagidulin: In this important.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Our product is the various wallet and interoperable digital wallet that can manage privacy preserving identity and verifiable credentials for a wide range of daily activities you can find more information at varus dot IO various wallet can support age verification government identity Finance supply chain and education applications including the verifiable job skills use cases pioneered by jmf and the open badge communities.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Interoperability means being able to.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Display verify and present a digital credential that communicates these different statements issued by anyone including individuals or organizations using competing products in this plugfest you'll see a demonstration of the various wallet display an open badge version 3 verifiable credential that communicates a job skill or achievement including multiple data elements specified in the open badge standard the user opens her verus wallet mobile app and authenticates.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Your digital wallet in the cloud the.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Mo issuer endpoint which issues a mock open badge version 3 verifiable credential the user inspects the credential and stores it in her digital wallet.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The open batch credential is now available in the wallet the user presses show details to inspect the credential it displays an issuer name and logo and achievement name description and criteria and a badge image in this case the example credential states that Jane Doe's wallet has passed the jff plugfest interoperability criteria congratulations.
Kerri Lemoie: I really like how that one ends to meet you do you mind showing at the slides again thank you very much for doing that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Of course not.
Kerri Lemoie: Those are just three of the amazing videos we there are so many more so I'm going to put a link because you didn't grab the slides uses a link to all of the videos which I highly suggest take a few minutes to check them all they're all very short and you will learn about all of the work going on in our community and I think that's great the next slide please so I'd like to if I'm while I just go through these what I think.
Kerri Lemoie: Some of our achievements I was wondering if some of.
Kerri Lemoie: Riders make you themselves up just for a few questions I'm from us or also from anybody who's here to these are things that I thought really that we achieve some of the things so one we introduced VC wallet vendors to ensure Education data centers they were familiar with them they had really heard about them and there they were displaying them and but for the most part let us know that it wasn't so hard to do that which was great to hear and then we also introduce education Workforce platforms to verify.
Kerri Lemoie: The credentials so that was a great exchange also we are.
Kerri Lemoie: Lessons about displaying education credentials and that we can tackle as part of the task force that we see AG task force we learned a lot about what onboarding resources are needed and we need a lot of ongoing resources and this the demos prompted questions about policy and timing we had a lot of folks who are watching the demos who are not technical who are you know determining policy and thinking about policy as some excellent questions and I don't know if I mentioned this before.
Kerri Lemoie: Or can't recall a bit.
Kerri Lemoie: You this was about a five hour long before our long like you know event and we had over I won't play about fifty four people on Zoom who stayed on for almost the whole time and which was really a really great and then also this I thought this was great as somebody who's been working and open badges for a long time this was the first time that open badges 3.0 were sort of issued but mostly displayed and and I just sort of want to reflect that.
Kerri Lemoie: Here you go.
<manu_sporny> Woo hoo! Huge strides in just 12 months!
Kerri Lemoie: That this task force decided to pursue doing this work of aligning education standards directly with the VC model prior to this we were talking about cell ER rapper model and this decision initiated two charters that IMS Global which is now wanted to Echo work I think for both open Badges and the sealer and also the open badges nclr decided to align their models to describe achievements and then on top of that we also.
Kerri Lemoie: Achieved having additional alignment with.
Kerri Lemoie: For the achievement type property so it's like three standards that were aligned as part of this work and even though the slugfest was a little bit early it's still you know was really sort of a great achievement and great to see this happen both open Badges and the CLR should be released as a candidate released by the end of this month so me for me personally anyway I just want to say this is a huge step forward and I want to thank open badges in the CLR working group members and of course this community for making.
Kerri Lemoie: All of that happen.
Kerri Lemoie: Let me see if we have anybody in.
<phil_t3> IMSGLOGAL now ""
Kerri Lemoie: Evan do you have the floor.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Oh sure I thought the key was for questions but I can provide some comments about our plugfest experience if you'd like.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Sure why don't you do that.
Kerri Lemoie: Why do you have a question for you to mostly the what did you think this plugfest achieved and what did what do you think you achieved as part of this.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Oh that's a great question that's going to be my comment to so good timely question you know the plugfest was a good first step I think you mentioned that it was kind of a Hello World displaying the credential you know is a nice first step toward interoperability but I think the main takeaway for us was how it was fairly straightforward to do because of the solid alignment with the standards that you mentioned on this slide so the fact that a open badge version 3 has a line with.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): The other day.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Standards means that it's you know fairly straightforward to integrate this with the wallet that supports other types of credentials unrelated to skills or education and and that's very exciting to us the vision of a digital wallet that can handle lots of different types of credentials curated by the holder that can speak to really any aspect of their daily life I think is the reason that this group is so excited about working on this so I'm guessing the other companies feel this way too and we're glad that these standards are aligning to.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): to make a possible.
Kerri Lemoie: Excellent thank you Evan.
Kerri Lemoie: Dimitri you have the floor.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I think the other thing that the plugfest achieved is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Is the Sun and we're going to talk about this I just a bit but I want to highlight it.
Dmitri Zagidulin: It started the process of setup and planning for the next enter up fast specifically it made a lot of development teams start thinking about and start planning.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The specifics of okay so right now we're just displaying and getting credentials into the wall it somehow but from the next one we're going to have to pick some protocols some issuing protocols and some verification protocols and we're going to pick which did methods we support and which cryptography sweets we're going to use with those dead methods so.
Dmitri Zagidulin: It made a lot of dive teams open up a lot of specs and documentation and start planning.
Dmitri Zagidulin: That was important.
Manu Sporny: +1 Dmitri
Kerri Lemoie: Exactly thank you Marty.
Kerri Lemoie: You might we can't hear you.
Marty Reed: How about now.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes thank you.
Marty Reed: Perfect right so I just want to commend the team that put this plugfest together because I felt like it was from the plugfest that we've been a part of over the past few years it was I feel like one of the most productive approaches to to a plugfest and so just kudos to you Kerry Dimitri Sharon like really really amazing.
Marty Reed: Work and I'm excited.
<taylor_(lef)> +1000
Phil Long: +1 To Marty's comment!
Marty Reed: Out the next the next the next version of this and I've actually been sharing this model with others that are that are talking about plugfest because of what I feel it was a great success so just well done.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks Marty that's great.
Manu Sporny: +1 To what Marty said and JFF and the Chairs and Sharon!
Kerri Lemoie: Share that and you know I'm just going to say again that Sharon really is has been Visionary for all of this and you know we've mostly who have been supporting her through this and actually said I'm going to hand this over to you to say a little bit about that and also talk about the roadmap for what we're planning next and we'll leave the cue open if anybody else has questions.
Sharon Leu: Thanks Carrie and I guess I'll say one thing is I and I said this last Monday but I'll say it again I actually severely underestimated the amount of interest that there would be in this activity initially when we had chatted about it we thought oh it would be no problem to bring just a few people to New Orleans there's already Hotel space that we don't have to pay extra for and it would be great opportunity to work together I didn't anticipate.
Sharon Leu: Eight that so many people would be interested in this.
Sharon Leu: I think that as the development of this continued I think that I quickly realized why people were interested so I was like most encouraged by that and as we're thinking about this roadmap one of the things so so sorry I forgot to say so I apologize and really thank all of you who stayed on the line during the zoom I realized that there were some logistical challenges with audio in and video and that was because we had not prior.
Sharon Leu: Rehearse that prior.
Sharon Leu: And so the challenges of a hybrid in person are just the way that they are and we should have known better by now because we were all locked in our houses for two years but anyhow thank you for sticking with us during like I guess some of the very choppiness especially in the beginning so moving forward we are going to have a conversation about what is the best way to work on this and work all together and we have been floating a number of ideas and.
Sharon Leu: I think they'll tend.
Sharon Leu: In all in person or all virtual but like I said open to your input on that so that's like one thing that we're like talking about as far as plugfest to the second is on our roadmap actually we had thought that the next logical step in the progression of this was to start having conversations about issuing verifiable credentials so in this plugfest you know I'm glad Marty you enjoyed it in the end because I.
Sharon Leu: Is concerned you thought it.
Sharon Leu: Too easy when you call it hello world but the next time we want to actually start having conversations about what does it look like to issue a credentials not to your own wallet and to someone else's wallet or for your wallet to accept verifiable credentials issued by other wallets and there are some I think more difficult questions that we're going to have to answer and so I think that was in our minds the next logical progression however.
Sharon Leu: We did he.
Sharon Leu: Some feedback that perhaps going towards verifiers might be the right way to go and I'm a little bit curious what this group thinks.
Kerri Lemoie: I David see you have the floor.
<kerri_lemoie> (next slide just demonstrates this discussion)
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you David Evan.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Yeah we had assumed that those protocols were baked into the did methods discussion just as part of the Practical you know how we get from here to there so I think the communication of the verifiable credential from the issuer to the wallet is going to be an important discussion for plugfest to as is the did methods that we use and we heard I think in one of the previous meetings that there might be some overlapping Solutions so certainly different folks are going to present different did methods for.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): And it's in the same with issue and we are working on a tool which we should be able to release to the group next week that uses one of the issuance and communication protocols the credential Handler API that would allow folks to basically have a Sandbox and open sandbox that they can use to push credentials into their wallet with the credential Handler API so I can I can drop a link in the chat to the w3c standards track stuff related to chappie if anyone's interested.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): did and then when that too.
Evan_Lally_(Digital_Bazaar): Is available will let the group know.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Evan I'll need your the floor.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): Oh thanks I plus 1 the idea of talking about protocols and just helping this journey of credential from its issuer to the wallet that's a really important phase and then of course you protocols that support the Journey of from the wallet to the verifier one word can be a further exploration phase I'd also like to promote maybe the idea that we talked about the place to trust Registries have within this market and.
Nate_Otto_(he/him): explore whether there is.
Kerri Lemoie: +1 To discussing trust registries
Nate_Otto_(he/him): The best option that would help the market sort of get essential capabilities around understanding which issuers should be trusted to issue which credentials by which verifiers I'm at some point in our long interoperability Journey.
Kerri Lemoie: She's definitely something we all need to be talking about very soon so it's an interesting idea do as part of this money Mario you have the floor.
Manu Sporny: Yeah plus 12 needs comment on trust Registries it keeps coming up across various different Industries not just like education but it's come up on the citizen identity you know stuff that DHS is doing it's coming up in you know retail and in there's some Simple Solutions out there but I don't think we've really had a chance to dive into those deeply so plus 1/2 that the reason.
Manu Sporny: I put myself on the Q was was.
Manu Sporny: To note two things in the prior DHS s VIP plugfest we had used chappy the credential Handler API to demonstrate cross vendor issuance in presentation that was two years ago in the the updates that Evans mentioning extend chappie to Native wallets as well so later on this.
Manu Sporny: Weak as.
Manu Sporny: And we'll be releasing a bunch of documentation on upgrades to chappie that get it to work with Native apps on mobile devices native apps on the desktop while also supporting web-based issuance web-based verification so it's kind of an all-in-one solution to doing all of that as well as you know working with browsers that have typically had struggled a bit with.
Manu Sporny: Happy like.
Manu Sporny: And iOS Safari we've got some new updates and fixes for that as well we found that to be the easiest way to do integration at least from an interoperability perspective and it supports post both issuance and verification as well as you know some other higher order Concepts like revocation and credential refresh and things of that nature using these Capi so.
Manu Sporny: I don't know.
Manu Sporny: I quite agree with David's assertion that we should do verification first because they you've got to do all of it right and whether you're doing issuance or whether you're doing patient in chappies really it's not that different from from each other so all that to say you know looking at the demos what people actually showed I noticed quite a bit of like issuance and.
Manu Sporny: Tatian already happening.
Manu Sporny: Like if you look at some of these things these these Solutions they're already using protocols to do into verification so I think really the conversation is around okay how many of these are using which protocol to do issuance and how many of these are using which protocol do verification and how quickly can we get those protocols integrated with the applications that don't do those things currently so so we are as Evan.
Manu Sporny: Mentioned we are absolutely planning to provide.
Manu Sporny: For dff bugs s specifically around chappie on presentation issuance you know over chapter native apps and web based apps that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you honey Dimitri.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I want a plus one to the comments that Nate and mono gave about about two things one is that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Certain ways it's doesn't matter which we do first because we're definitely going to get to both we're going to get to plug fasts that Temple test both issuance and interop.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Having said that I do think personally that of the to issuance is the more important one because it's the higher risk because verifying is much easier but it is to issuing I think as a community we're fairly comfortable that the various verification libraries or Standalone Service is like the universal verifier will be able to handle pretty much everything whereas there's still very much held breath.
Dmitri Zagidulin: An edge of the seat.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Expectation to see which issuing protocols will be supported and really will wallets be able to sorry will issuers be able to issue to multiple wallets because that's the key that's what we win or lose by okay that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you Dimitri.
Kerri Lemoie: And here you if I and you're speaking right now Phil.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay we can come back to fill because we're running low on time Oliver.
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1 To technical meeting!
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah thank you we are we will definitely be having more discussions about this money you have the floor.
<dmitri_zagidulin> in terms of protocols, what I personally suspect is going to happen is -- we have three+ broad groupings of protocols. 1) VC-API / CHAPI, 2) OpenID Connect family of protocols, and 3) WACI-DIDComm
Manu Sporny: Yeah it's more of a question so we're trying to figure out I think one of the big things we all want to get to is like okay what are the protocols that these wallets are going to use to move things around that can be a much bigger step than issuance and verification on their own so for example you know the verifiable credential API has very straightforward apis for issuance and verification in we can.
Manu Sporny: You know.
Manu Sporny: Issuance and verification using just the VC API now that doesn't get us all the way to wallet protocols doing issuance and verification but it does get us to kind of a fundamental Next Step which is Can you issue in verified by a bunch of different arbitrary you know HTTP endpoint so I was wondering if the if what what that level of interoperability played in The Jeff plugfest.
Manu Sporny: Test if any you know.
Manu Sporny: Like proving issuance and verification at a more lower-level meet some goals versus trying to like shoot for the moon and get wallet protocols issuing in verifying.
<kayode_ezike> Lately, I’ve been getting the sense that there needs to be a standard mechanism (e.g., config/disco doc) for issuers to specify supported protocols. Wallets can then use this to determine what to do. I fear this may be adding a standard of standards, but just putting it out there.
Kerri Lemoie: There's a good question Monument I think we should keep that question open for now so I don't think we're quite sure it's a good one to ask before we go to David and try Phil again see if he can join us.
Kerri Lemoie: Say so we still can't hear you.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm sorry David why don't you go ahead and then I'm David and then maybe fill we can try one more time and then we're going to close it.
<dmitri_zagidulin> less done, and more - easier to do. (verification)
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you David okay Phil no more time to hear you.
<dmitri_zagidulin> the other thought about verification is -- nearly all the participants in the 1st plugfest already implemented and displayed verification.
<tim_dutta_-_entrustient> Are there any next steps on who will be proceeding to PlugFest 2
Kerri Lemoie: I feel we can't hear you maybe you can keep trying to get your son together we're just going to move to the last slide please we can just talk about what does happen next steps to meet you could you move to slide 13 for me and also I would like to encourage everyone to have these conversations on the mailing list on the VC edu mailing list so we can keep these going and we will schedule times for us to me.
Kerri Lemoie: Eat and have these discussions but we could start.
<sharon_leu> @Tim, anyone who successfully displayed the obv3 badge in their vc wallet
Kerri Lemoie: There and have a pretty robust discussion on the mailing list I think as we've seen before and I'm sorry too much ego one slide back the second to light second to last slide please.
Dmitri Zagidulin: @Kayode: good points (re discovering supported protocols). I think if all else fails, each protocol has their own discovery mechanisms. so a wallet could check each protocol's mechanism - oidc, vc-api, didcomm
Kerri Lemoie: Okay this is I one thing I just wanted to mention how to participate in this next book Fest so those who successfully met the requirements for this first one will receive this jmf DC edu plugfest batch and so to participate in the next one you must complete this batch right because this is the most basic part of the project right is to be able to display a verifiable credential batch so.
Kerri Lemoie: We will be going through.
<tim_dutta_-_entrustient> Perfect! Thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Sure that everything works right but also you know if you are interested in doing this you can still do this you can still participate in the second plugfest if you want to prove that you've met the requirements for this one so reach out to us if you're interested in that and we'll we'll get you going there.
Kerri Lemoie: Are you have anything to add to that.
Sharon Leu: Nope that's it anyone can play.
Kerri Lemoie: All right we want everyone to play hey Phil I'm going to try you again can you your town working.
<evan_lally_(> thank you!
<sharon_leu> Thanks!
<tim_dutta_-_entrustient> Thank you!
Kerri Lemoie: Okay all right everybody thank you very much for joining us today I'm looking forward to the next one and all of our future meetings when one quick note is that we are not going to have our meeting next Monday to observe a Juneteenth so keep that in mind I will send out a reminder about that thank you everybody have a great week.
<evan_lally_(> you too