Benjamin Collins: Think I think we're ready to start. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay so I guess no new people here so we don't need to go through the introduction notes sung in the ccg remit let's start with Trace vocab week. ✪
Benjamin Collins: And there is only one request open from me this is a work in progress this is a specific narrowly defined invoice for cfd f.c. FDI invoice for Mexico this is their digital invoicing standard and this is kind of creating a compatibility layer between medical credentials and their digital invoices. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Kind of redundant but just we have feedback from customers and trying to do that so this will probably be ready for next week's meeting and if we go other any pull request over on Trace picture up. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Yes this is not here this week we'll give him one more week to do that and then the second one is pull 603 from the mood which has no reviews on it. ✪
Benjamin Collins: So I guess we can give feedback but it looks totally out of the two things are agility readme and. ✪
Benjamin Collins: IPhone 3 point 9 / 11 and reports that index though so what's actually being changed oh it should be using so it's just removing the one line from agility that beat me right. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Yeah that seems to be the only substantive change there and then he has a question as to whether or not we should just remove this whole tutorial as an alternate. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Yeah the issue 562 is for removing Json web signature 2020 is that I am work items been withdrawn so it makes sense to make that modification for sure and the read me the question is to whether or not we should remove this entirely this tutorial I agree I think we should perhaps propose that to a larger group. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Tell the SEC moved yes it's me so this is an issue 562. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Banana Joe dictatorial to three weeks ago okay I think we can all I think this this poor request address is issue 562 and if we want to create a different issue we can create one for removing the entire tutorial right. ✪
Chris Abernethy: I think that's yeah that makes sense although wounded comments on 562 that the first PR should also remove Ed to 5519 signature 2018. ✪
Chris Abernethy: That's potentially why he may be asked if we should just remove this tutorial entirely. ✪
Chris Abernethy: But either way I would definitely have some change request here the index shouldn't be there and you certainly shouldn't be committing client Secrets he'll probably want to rotate that. ✪
Benjamin Collins: All right so that's it for pull requests of this week two we want to go hold ahead any agenda items we will bring. ✪
Benjamin Collins: We can go directly into issues and sort by. ✪
Benjamin Collins: This is replace traceability hashtag products with schema.org products. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I think what kind of depends are we asserting that this is the exact same thing is his product because if our if our product diverges from their product and were you know defining new things under their attributes. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Having our own which can have attributes that say Hey this is the same thing as schema.org. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Yeah it's a we have does anyone know whether or not our product is different than schema doors product. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Without looking out probably to their different. ✪
Russell_H_(mesur.io): If these are cases where the properties being defined are references to mesh Rio products I think it is kind of the. ✪
Russell_H_(mesur.io): The no I'm too when we are referencing one of our own schemas use traceability hashtag. ✪
Chris Abernethy: I think it might be good to get some more information on where this is being used maybe a link into the code and also see whether or not we are defining this item. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Um I would imagine that a lot of these four requests are going to be nuanced json-ld examples. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Let's see it completed units weight versus net weight xsd double versus xsd decimal. ✪
Benjamin Collins: This one is currently assigned to my mood. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I 531 is currently a side so all the places he's weight can be found were measured it for quantitative value should be correct structure prospective. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Is weak yeah currently a few strings have childish those should all be changed. ✪
Benjamin Collins: So it looks like this is just waiting for PR I guess if my mood has a suggested. ✪
Chris Abernethy: It sounds like he has a path forward here and perhaps. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Mike this is ready for PR and. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Buddhism on the call to get the Ping of shame but. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I might be of Shame is coming up in a few issues so don't want to talk all right so next is issue 811 looks like this is for me semantic issue for commercial invoice from 808 we deleted performance voice that have lien tag for commercial invoice credential Boolean work since cumulonimbus Bap semantics. ✪
Benjamin Collins: People reply to the Boolean flag. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I mean I think the main thing here is. ✪
Benjamin Collins: You know who's who's consuming The json-ld View on these credentials. ✪
Chris Abernethy: So I when you say this is semantic issue how can you can you elaborate on that is it because commercial invoice credential isn't really isn't necessarily a question that can be answered by a Boolean or. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I think it's if you were to imagine of converting this into a graph a commercial invoice you know we'll have a type as the primary note so if you want to say you had a commercial invoice and a pro forma invoice you have two notes at both these labeled invoice invoice for the type of in how they look. ✪
Benjamin Collins: You'd have to go through and look at okay type invoice and then on top of that search for this attribute performing voice true so you know say you had you know 10 pro forma invoices and like 20 invoices it would just show up as 30 invoices as nodes which could probably be good misleading. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Update bank account profile credentials a to include commercial status section. ✪
Benjamin Collins: So this is so Pink So bank account can be revoked if effectively. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Yeah it might be good if this person commented on why they wanted to add this. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay add a comment to confirm in normal human language what's going on here rather than just kind of a Jason. ✪
Benjamin Collins: If we get confirmation on that we can probably add up bed for PR label on this but let's cycle back to that next traceable cap section. ✪
Benjamin Collins: OC schema.org data type should be avoided because there are not indexed by semantic repositories and our home for interoperability see secured our discussion plenty of my chicken was that 70% of schema date found in the world are in fact xsd date and not schema daytime okay so this is a specific type. ✪
Benjamin Collins: When all the daytime address plus separate issue is filed. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay so I'm going to create a checklist for me. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Say first thing I need to do is scan through the code to find. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Being used and then from there it would be to either open a pull request or edit her probably first edit the issue to make the action items very clear and then have a poor request that addresses those specific items. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Is he suggesting that we not use any schema or data type or just a daytime looks like any schema.org data type. ✪
Benjamin Collins: The do you want to edit the issue name to address nut. ✪
Chris Abernethy: I don't think so I mean in his. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Initial comment he is grabbing for schema.org date number Boolean text time and URL so it sounds like he is in fact talking about all data types. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Whereas already suggested that the issue can be closed and all date-time types are addressed. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I think it would be a lot easier too. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Keep this narrow and just focus on the daytime aspect and if there are other specific ones that come up look for create other issues for those. ✪
Chris Abernethy: I would think that his intention was to in fact specify all of these and that we should create issues for them before closing this. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay well let's see I'm going to the the easily I'm going to take the easy two for a way out on this and say I think the action item for me is to create a. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Or I could do that I could grab and create a test list of specific what needs to be changed for all these and then create create the issue that can be tackled. ✪
Benjamin Collins: So I think that we're so basically it with with with daytime there's a specific. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Proposal for what needs to be addressed with that and then the other ones we could say okay we found these instances what should these instances be changed too. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay this is my issue and this is I think this is effectively outdated now that we're in lining all the credentials before we were kind of going for the style of you know invoice contains a product product contains a commodity of like linking the problem is that that kind of approach of creating smaller units means that the size of our. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Exponentially with stuff that wasn't needed and so. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Proposed that we should do that but my mood assigned himself to this we put as pending close last one I'm going to go ahead and close this issue and if someone wants to resurrect it they can. ✪
Benjamin Collins: This is reflect new ID requirements from Trace interrupt. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Specks of drifted presentation must be seen to with presentation credentials credential examples must be a updated to use only uuids looking for volunteers on this might have resulting ideas we need to be able to fit in I think currently. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Is think they do nothing problems versus classes no one is assigned. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Some mistakes in semantics we have a lot of back and forth on the thread. ✪
Benjamin Collins: And we're trying to Ping flood to get some. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Clarification but that was back in June with no more updates on flood and or you suggest a closeness in March so I guess we just want to add the label pending close there's no more updates on this threat. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Yeah I mean this is just been languishing for so long but I mean at the same time or he did acknowledge that these were bugs that needed to be fixed so I'd hate to lose sight of that. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I agree but you know it's kind of. ✪
Benjamin Collins: It's also kind of frustrating for you know fly to come in and say oh this sucks and it's like okay you know we agree we acknowledge that what should we do and then we just kind of get ghosted on you know on the actual path forward for it so. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I'm going to go ahead and put a pending close and if there's no more updates next time we see this weekend. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Thing but you know I completely agree with want to get feedback rather than actually using that's. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Next one is a 22 from told Ted and this is pointing back to 815 so this is singular versus plural Ted can you. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Yeah this is just the best practices question singular is generally preferable to plural in. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Naming of things like this. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): It's not a big deal many people consider the word instructions to be singular. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay put a comment on that and this is from a. ✪
Benjamin Collins: See where it says change being applied update requirements. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Presentation is this in the respect document. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Oh golly I don't remember. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Postal separate VR so it looks like it is in the respect document let's see it says holders should ensure the previous presentation was accepted before presenting and instructions for hesitation within instructions properties are included that each array of credentials ID is this even the standard estimates. ✪
Benjamin Collins: This is the issue let's open the Respec document. ✪
Orie Steele: DeNiro I made mostly just to lose that document because I think I know what this is. ✪
Orie Steele: So there was a pull request that was merged That was supposed to cover updates to previous presentations and then there was debate around different more complicated versions of that I don't think got clear consensus. ✪
Orie Steele: To me like potentially the respect document contains text that doesn't reflect consensus that needs to be removed it's kind of like the high-level overview. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Yeah I tend to agree with that looks like this section is five point one point six and. ✪
Benjamin Collins: This is the update remove presentations part. ✪
Orie Steele: This seems fine to me so the respect document seems correct the issue seems stale and I might suggest is closing the issue. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay let's see and oh instructions are not included here now. ✪
Orie Steele: Right they were included in Mike's like proposed thing that never got concerns it and that didn't get merged so we have an issue filed on something that isn't in the document so the issue is sort of stale and regarding a discussion that was resolved by not doing the more complicated and confusing thing. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Are you heading closing with comments. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Instruction here we go next one is 271. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay another one from glad for this example in 270 has two more problems purchase does not exist even if it did I don't see how I purchased can be semantically and equivalent to related documents purchase it's rare that you bent a lot of discussion. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Looks like we actually have the less comments from flood attachment shows 161 schema terms traceability schemas the you make a new head request for each of these Uris and see whether they resolved here's the mistake lowercase terms of property it cannot be used as a type. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Anyone summarize what's going on in this thread. ✪
Orie Steele: It's basically just a high-level comment we're not using rdf predicates and types consistently or correctly and you know for this kind of issue it's always kind of hard to resolve these because. ✪
Orie Steele: Now concretely you might have a problem in a specific rdf data month data model instance that you would want to correct but in the abstract you're just dealing with a you know varying degrees of correctness in your. ✪
Orie Steele: I guess I would suggest closing any kind of issues that are like fix everything and instead file specific issues for cases where the rdf data model instance has some flaw that you're trying to correct so we know for example if you use type identifier incorrectly in some credential that you care deeply about and you would go fix it in that credential but you might not go fix that kind of rdf stuff in the abstract in all places. ✪
Orie Steele: My recommendation would be to close it because it's an actionable issue that basically just covers improve things everywhere which is you do want to do that but it's kind of hard to use the issue to track it and I don't think someone's going to close this particular issue the way that it's raining. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I agree it while you were talking about skinny back through it twice and it looks like blood for see it should be able to reopen twice again and so I think we want to have narrow issues around a specific scope. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Scroll down to the last issue removing types Mentor guy Timeless I'm afraid that doesn't fix it simple from revocation list status several mistakes here revocation list index is an integer position search method schema position made integer. ✪
Orie Steele: Oh this is all declined to implement because it's controlled by a w3c technical recommendation now so like we're not in control of we don't Define stuff anymore we just need to cite the work item that does to find this I'm going to share here. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): What's the score. ✪
Orie Steele: Basically I shared a link to the w3c repo and I said we should close the issue because. ✪
Orie Steele: We're not defining revocation list related stuff that's the w3c's area now. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I'm not going to go ahead and close the issue and like and comment and reopen if we need to but I kind of want to be aggressive closing that if it's not a work item. ✪
Orie Steele: Yeah I mean if he wants to make Corrections he should make them to the w3c work item so everyone who implements that spec and benefit. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Alright next one is 575 inflation of value somewhere 25 someone for some skewers by several terms to skua Value which makes it impossible to distinguish least twice featuring rdf. ✪
Benjamin Collins: So total order value so numbers are not distinguishable looks like Vivian was assigned to this but she's not on these calls anymore so we. ✪
Orie Steele: So for this one my recommendation would be each company and I should confirm the credentials that they care about are defined correctly and then they should open issues for any problems in their specific credentials that they out and it is real if we should fix this for specific credentials and he gives a bunch of examples here. ✪
Orie Steele: We could potentially create a separate issue for each of the types that he's claiming are broken. ✪
Orie Steele: What it what if our folks want to handle it I mean if there are things that are incorrectly defined and we know where they're incredibly to find it's an actionable issue we should either fix it or. ✪
Orie Steele: Leave the issue marker open because it's still a real problem. ✪
Russell_H_(mesur.io): Yeah this does seem like a pretty straightforward fix I can do this for the AG schemas theoretically I guess I'm not as familiar with the other schemas and I don't want to step on any toes actually yes I the egg scheme this is probably enough of a task I can. ✪
Orie Steele: Yeah I would not volunteer to do anything other than fix this issue in every schema that you specifically care about and I would give the action item to miss and then you know maybe take a look and see if it applies to us if it does let's track it separately in more specific way. ✪
Russell_H_(mesur.io): Were you saying something about. ✪
Russell_H_(mesur.io): Starting a different issue for different companies and groups of schemas or I can just use this issue. ✪
Orie Steele: You can use this issue but I think this issue needs to be closed at some point and. ✪
Orie Steele: Would be nice to sort of create separate issues and then close this one and then have each of those smaller issues actually be closable. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): I might suggest putting in something of a checklist here of the things to be done and then once whatever they are whether they're opening 12 new issues or One Mini issue or. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): When all the check boxes that are here are checked off then this can be closed. ✪
Russell_H_(mesur.io): It's okay yeah I can make an issue for egg. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay so I created a pathless at the top so Russell creates an issue for agriculture and been in this create an issue for steel and once these separate rates have been created and this issue is complete does that sound okay. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I'm specifically talking about it looks like GitHub allows the maintainers to create a test list so that seems like something we should take advantage of. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Yeah that's a nice new thing I might suggest instead of the human names they're to use their GitHub tags. ✪
Benjamin Collins: It didn't come up with that was my thinking to it didn't come up with the suggestion but I can try to fix that so. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Might be better out of band but yeah. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Name okay I list fix it for Russell but I don't think it I like it does highlight and Link it okay. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Current choice of delimiter is Hash however it's not appropriate large symmetric collections like traceability slashes better. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Transit / are of so all the good data patterns book. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Disability / transfer mode / are so this is saying don't use fragments effectively. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I'm just going to express a little bit frustration of the flood in these fix of the things issues. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): Yeah I think that's an ongoing frustration across the board. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): It's not to say that his issues are not inaccurate they're just huge. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): And it might be I mean he's not going to come back really to these. ✪
Orie Steele: Yeah I think these are the kinds of things where best case scenario we do a checklist we split them up we close them you know get them into smaller pieces that could be addressed by people who are regularly attending and opening pull requests. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): I think it's also reasonable although he may complain about it at some point to say in all of them this is too big to be actionable you're correct that it's a problem but we can't we can't parse it well enough with. ✪
Orie Steele: Yeah I'd be okay with that as well. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): And instead of closing them as completed close them as won't fix or whatever so that it's it's clear we didn't touch it. ✪
TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com): It might also be worth while throwing in some labels like got it a help wanted or. ✪
Orie Steele: Yeah better labels is is the thing we could we could definitely do better labeling. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Yeah I think what kind of the Gap and I'm kind of identifying right now is like needs to be broken down label in terms of like when when is the correct time to create the checklist because you know that seems like something we're not going to do out-of-band so it might be a good idea too. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I don't know if it takes time is it better to just do less issues and more checklist on these calls. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Or see I'm pulling up traceability. ✪
Benjamin Collins: I asked on the thread to say is this a blanket copy replace for all of the instances from hash to slash or is it selective and I think the path forward will. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Different depending on the answer there. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Not not that I don't like hosting or anything or put it up. ✪
Benjamin Collins: All right let's let's go ahead and wrap it up here I think I think it might be a good idea just to see if there are my total take away from this call is if there are issues without checklist and we should stay on that issue until we have a checklist and just keep crunching through them potentially. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Other than that thanks for attending the call I guess I need to Chris for confirmation are you going to post the minutes. ✪
Chris Abernethy: Yeah I can post a minutes if you make sure everyone gets booted and cancel recording we should be good to go. ✪
Benjamin Collins: Okay let's see I think I can stop recording now. ✪