The W3C Credentials Community Group

Verifiable Claims and Digital Verification

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Credentials CG Telecon

Minutes for 2018-10-16

Christopher Allen: Voip 19a is ChristopherA
Jeff Orgel: Present +
Andrew Hughes: Scribe achughes
Andrew Hughes is scribing.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Reviews the IPR rules and how to queue to speak
Nate Otto: Hi, @manu. Glad to be here.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Nominates Heather to be reintroduced!

Topic: Introductions and Reintroductions

Heather Vescent: Runs a strategic consultancy, in the tech industry 20+ years, futurist. Published a comprehensive SSI research report - ask for details.
Heather Vescent: SSI similar to previous digital asset grid work at SWIFT

Topic: Announcements & Reminders

Kim Hamilton Duffy: Two events next week
Kim Hamilton Duffy: TPAC in Lyon and IIW in Mountain View
Kim Hamilton Duffy:
Kim Hamilton Duffy: W3C workshop on strong authentication and Identity December 10, 11 in Redmond

Topic: Progress on Current Action Items

Manu Sporny: A good forum to discuss DIDs prior to establishing DID WG
Manu Sporny: Workshop is invitation-only - must submit a position statement - group will be selected based on submissions
Joe Andrieu: For W3C workshop - should the application survey include the position statement? or send the position separately?
Manu Sporny: Cover your bases and send a separate position statement in addition to the survey
Joe Andrieu: Does the workshop need more publicity?
Manu Sporny: Can you resend the 'position paragraphs' item? I missed the details. [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
Manu Sporny: These are specialist workshops, technical, standards focused, not general attendace. So not really appropriate for a newsletter.
Lionel Wolberger: Is it IIW only?
Lionel Wolberger: OK, but it's at Mountain View, (not Lyon) correct?
Manu Sporny: Workshop is open to anyone, but deep into strong authentication topics. W3C workshop is in Redmond
Joe Andrieu: It's in Seattle in December
Lionel Wolberger: Sorry, missed the place of the workshop. THANKS!
Lionel Wolberger: Got it. Thanks.
Dave Longley: 10-11Th
Redmond is near Seattle
Nate Otto: Seems like the whole audio bridge is having some trouble. Hopefully it recovers.
Joe Andrieu: =(
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Spec text video editing
Lucas Parker: Better now
Nate Otto: Getting better!
Joe Andrieu: A bit better now
Andrew Hughes: Bohdan has stepped up and edited the video
Andrew Hughes: Andrew wants to view the edited video (60 minutes) and will circulate the link this week
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Work items

Topic: Work Items

Manu Sporny: DID WG Prep - the DID Primer docs got a few updates
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Thanks Bohdan (re video)
Dan Burnett: Manu can you drop the link to the new primer?
Manu Sporny: We have really good support - 81 orgs responded, ~60 are commercial orgs - most are supportive
Manu Sporny: Support to create a new DID WG
Kim Hamilton Duffy: DID Primer:
Manu Sporny: The use cases are representative of the ones the orgs are interested in.
Manu Sporny: Where can we see the list of 80+ companies supporting the DID as a WG? [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
Mike Lodder: When are we going to finalize those PRs?
Manu Sporny: Next up for the DID Spec is LD signatures, COSE, JWT discussions
Manu Sporny: DID Spec and Use cases need to be cleaned up a bit in prep for the WG startup (assuming it goes)
Manu Sporny: The supporting companies list is only for W3C members - confidential
Mike Lodder: Yes
Kim Hamilton Duffy: DID PR finalization - discussion about having deep-dive calls soon. Focus was on TPAC prep.
Mike Lodder: :Thumbs_up
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Mike and Drummond will be talking together at IIW to resolve big issues
Mike Lodder: So, there’s no movement planned prior to IIW?
Manu Sporny: +1 To process DID spec changes.
Mike Lodder: Probably won’t be able to resolve all PRs at IIW - so should we use this call to discuss?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Yes, some of it can be on this call - and also separate deep-dive calls
Kim Hamilton Duffy: These would be official ccg calls

Topic: TPAC Planning

Lucas Parker: I can view it
Ken Ebert: I can't access it.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Adjusted the permissions on the document for review
Ken Ebert: That worked.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The interesting presentations related to DIDs are called out in the schedule document
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Tuesday - the big one is the 2 hour Credentials CG meeting - slide deck needs lots of work and who will present it
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The structure of the CCG session: people will be walking in and wanting to hear the overview of the work and some light details
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Need to avoid getting derailed - so need a firm schedule of topics in the ccg meeting
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Slide 9 has candidate items for deeper diving
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Need presenters for the items
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Slide 8 has the full list of work items in the ccg - Slide 9 is the focus topics
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Need volunteers to present the ‘shallow’ deep dive topics
Manu Sporny: Should include Self-Sovereign data storage - Microsoft Identity Hub / Data Hub
Dmitri Zagidulin: +1
Lionel Wolberger: I volunteer for a shallow-deep-dive
Manu Sporny: Will be discussions on Digital Verifiaction Specs
Lionel Wolberger: Datamin is my favorite topic!
Lionel Wolberger: Volunteers to do a shallow-deep-dive on data minimization - will be at TPAC
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Suggests 2-3 slides for each ‘deep dive’ topics
Lionel Wolberger: Yes, I will be at TPAC.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Still need a person to present (manu volunteers)
Joe -- My W3C creds aren't working to see that DID proposal member list, do I need to request access?
Manu Sporny: Chrisboscolo: No, more than likely you're not the AC Rep for your org?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: TPAC Wednesday - breakout sessions
Ah, yes that is truu
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Most important: the W3C DID Working Group session that Manu is running
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The second breakout that we will propose is Joe’s “Roadmap for Decentralized Identity"
Manu Sporny: Ccg needs to keep focused on a few topics to avoid slow progress and dissipation
Manu Sporny: E.g. the way we are doing signatures in VC and DID Spec is not locked down - commercial deployers need this to be locked down
Manu Sporny: Ccg stil needs to decide on what work should be next
Christopher Allen: Still lots of ccg items to work on - such as deep dives into individual methods - the DID WG wont necessarily work on these things
Manu Sporny: The natural place to work on method spec is the ccg
Dan Burnett: Verifiable Credentials update - lots of people at W3C are not aware of the vc work at all - has been quiet, people not sure of status
Dan Burnett: Might consider doing a separate breakout on verifiable claims - as long as it does not compete with did wg
Christopher Allen: Suggests that the verifiable claims primer really helps people engage
Heather Vescent: Me/ sounds like this is a press/promotions problem...
Christopher Allen: The ccg could hold some of the primers
Matt Stone: Heathervescent yes re: press/promotion challenge.
Lionel Wolberger: All this socializing at TPAC, would a T-Shirt help? I know DIDs and VCs, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt
Manu Sporny: Dan - is the sense that the W3C membership is unaware? or the general public?
Heather Vescent: If only there was someone in the community who was good doing that? ;-)
Lionel Wolberger: I would love a T-shirt saying Data Minimization, Selective Disclosure, Progressive Trust
Matt Stone: During a meeting last week - unlike the ccg work on DIDs, there’s less blogging and public work on verifiable credentials - so vcs are a bit under the radar
Matt Stone: The VC WG needs to keep public visibility of the data model in mind
Lionel Wolberger: Maybe with a binary joke: Ask me about these 110 words: Data Minimization, Selective Disclosure, Progressive Trust
Christopher Allen: VC WG - concurs that visibility might be lower - but verifiable credentials are the next big piece of work after DIDs
Mike Lodder: Protocol
Manu Sporny: +1 To mike-lodder
Matt Stone: +1 Protocol
Christopher Allen: Should map out the schedule of which topics ccg might work on when
Manu Sporny: W3C staff probably want more blog post material - problem might be that the proof of concepts work are not public
Manu Sporny: There’s lots of traction with verifiable credentials and DIDs - but it’s not obvious from the outside
Manu Sporny: When the verifiable credentials WG ends (spring 2019) - we can make lots of noise about the work
Matt Stone: Manu can you post a link to that news/announcement?
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Nate Otto and I will be able to make noise about VCs via EDU/OCC use cases, and our work is public
Manu Sporny: US Government says that DIDs/Verifiable Credentials are necessary to do trade with US
Christopher Allen: Many, URL?
Heather Vescent: CBP has said they are using DIDs and VCs are a part of the next generation solution. If you want to trade with the United States, you will have to use DIDs and VCs.
Manu Sporny: There were 35+ press releases around this
Manu Sporny: The timing of spec development versus press awareness is normally disjointed
Manu Sporny: Next-generation-evolution of specs like verifiable credentials typically goes back into community groups (like the ccg)
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Time check
Christopher Allen: And we should add that VC transition to CCG slides
Matt Stone: Noted to the W3C staff - the charter of the WG is constrained to only the data model - but the magic sucess ingredient is DIDs and Protocols
Matt Stone: So the VC work has to be told in the whole, not as the atomic parts
Dan Burnett: The Verifiable Credentials WG will be discussing their charter at TPAC - there are continuation options
Matt Stone: Hopefully you'll all be in that discussion :)
Heather Vescent: Regarding promotion of the topics - many of us are technical - press and others take control over the narrative if this community does not put the story out there
Heather Vescent: This community doesn’t like financially supporting non-technical work
Matt Stone: +1 To heathervescent commentary about supporting the megaphone
Manu Sporny: Perhaps we can do bounties for marketing, PR?
Heather Vescent: For example the SSI report is a big piece of work that supports things like PR and Marketing and outreach
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Amen, we absolutely need to be communicating our work in compelling, human readable ways.
Heather Vescent: Wants this community to control the narrative
Manu Sporny: +1 -- So, we need to figure out how to fund that.... the vehicle.
Christopher Allen: Heathervescent has floated the idea of open-sourcing the SSI report if there is sufficient financial support
Heather Vescent: Has privately floated the idea of bounties - also creating updates to the SSI report, podcasts, other media - needs financial support

Topic: Feedback on charter

Heather Vescent: @Bigbluehat yes that is the theory.
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The second link is the correct one - DID WG Proposal that will be discussed at TPAC
Kim Hamilton Duffy: The did-wg-charter url is the correct one
Joe Andrieu: There were 2 issues he knows of
Joe Andrieu: ‘Machines’ cannot ‘own’ anything - the first paragraph states that machines can own DIDS
Joe Andrieu: There is a github issue on this
Dan Burnett: +1 To control
Manu Sporny: Thought that all the ‘owner’ statements were replaced by ‘controller’
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Machines don't own things:
Manu Sporny: The web of things and IoT community wanted ‘owner’ in there specfically
Lionel Wolberger: LOL
Heather Vescent: Love that Manu - Machines are people too.
Lionel Wolberger: Don't put the car before the horse.
Manu Sporny: JoeAndrieu was OK with change to ‘controls’ and that should satisfy the WoT group
Kim Hamilton Duffy: DID resolution:
Dan Burnett: This has always been the point: we are talking about identifiers, not identities. No ownership, just control over.
Christopher Allen: We need to communicate the ‘control’ preference over ‘owner’ words
Christopher Allen: Ccg needs to communicate the reasons for this
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Marcus’ DID Resolution - needs a separate section for this
Manu Sporny: You were looking for a volunteer, I am not clear what it was for... [scribe assist by Lionel Wolberger]
Dave Longley: Maybe more language about how DIDs are identifiers that are designed to better express independent existence of individuals, orgs, machines, etc .... instead of strongly binding them to unrelated services (that might be better in the spec than the charter though)
Kim Hamilton Duffy: Will follow up by email
Lionel Wolberger: Thanks Kim!
Meeting adjourned
Matt Stone: Bye all