The W3C Credentials Community Group

Meeting Transcriptions and Audio Recordings (2014-today)

Go Back

W3C CCG Weekly Teleconference

Transcript for 2023-05-30

<kerri_lemoie> Hello all
<harrison_tang> hello, Kerri!
<harrison_tang> thanks for taking the time to join us today
<kerri_lemoie> Hi @Harris! Always happy to be here.
Our Robot Overlords are scribing.
Kimberly Linson: Right well happy day after Memorial Day and I guess the start official start to Summer and I'm excited to moderate today and talk a little bit more about plugfest three the first two plugfest so I was thinking about this this morning we're really doing that kind of work I think is puts a lot of accelerant to to understanding the technology it's one thing to sort of hear it and listen to it but when you actually have to get in.
Kimberly Linson: And try to make it work.
Kimberly Linson: And then it really is becomes real and so I'm looking forward to plugfest three and another dose of that kind of acceleration as a reminder we are held to the professional code of ethics and conduct if you'd like to read that it's in the agenda the link is in the agenda I know that that we all are very passionate about our Viewpoint and that's one of the things that.
Kimberly Linson: Makes this community so great.
Kimberly Linson: Need to keep in mind that everyone is working towards the common goal of making credentials accessible to everyone the IP note also just to let you know you are welcome in this call and we're really glad to have you here and you're welcome to participate without being a member of the ccg but if you are interested in contributing and digging into an aspect of the technology or the standards.
Kimberly Linson: Or any kind of.
Kimberly Linson: Sharing of your work then we really invite you to join by creating a w3c account and and signing the community contributor license agreement both of those things the links are found in the notes it's free to join there's no cost but it does just sort of give you some explicit instructions about or Direction about what it is that you're doing we keep call notes and minutes and an audio recording of this this conversation.
Kimberly Linson: You can see the know.
Kimberly Linson: In the in the chat and if you would like to participate in the conversation I would invite you to use Q Plus to add yourself to the queue if you change your mind you can use Q - and that will take you off of the queue that's really how we organize the conversation here if you haven't put yourself on the Queue before I'd invite you to do that today and introduce yourself because that's the very next thing is introductions do I have anybody who is new here for the.
Kimberly Linson: First time today or hasn't been here in a while.
Kimberly Linson: Elves love to have you put yourself on the Queue and introduce yourself.
Gregory_Natran: Aye sir I'm not exactly a new member but there's seems there's been a complete mess up with the membership for my company so I'm still going to participate until we figure that out deal with the internal bureaucracy of somehow having our membership changed old or something but I don't think it matters so much for this group.
Kimberly Linson: It definitely doesn't we're glad to have you do what organization are you with.
Gregory_Natran: I was representing Becker Carol but we were Acquired and then change the name to Portage cybertech and I think that may have been why there's some confusion.
Kimberly Linson: Yep that sometimes happens and I am the one who gets all the sort of notifications of in and out and so I can take a look at what I have but yes you're certainly welcome we're glad you're here.
Kimberly Linson: Where are you based.
Kimberly Linson: Oh that sounds lovely.
Gregory_Natran: I just thought I'd point it out like I said I think it's more for the credentials working group that cares but the IP the IP agreements but I'm an Ottawa so it's it's you were discussing the weather earlier so ironically it is sunny and very warm in Ottowa right now I think will hit 30 degrees tomorrow.
Gregory_Natran: Fahrenheit I don't know what that is.
Kimberly Linson: Isn't it a double it and add 12 or something like that.
Gregory_Natran: That it's up over 80 degrees.
Kimberly Linson: And then I have.
Kimberly Linson: Another person on the Q deep yeah.
Aditya: Yeah it's it's added yeah yes already you all can call me Addie so I yeah I'm not new to this group either so I've been with you know you know the breakfast one and two earlier and you know so I was earlier with the different organization now we've shifted to a different organizations of planning to represent the new organization on the plate first three and continue my journey so.
<phil_t3> 30C = 86 F ;-)
Aditya: so you know.
Aditya: About of infinity sign so we work on identity and access management and we use you know self Sovereign identity and you know so an operation w3c base credentials for authentication so happy to be here thank you.
Kimberly Linson: Great we're glad to have you.
Kimberly Linson: All right anybody else wants you introduce themselves or reintroduce.
Kimberly Linson: How about announcements and reminders.
<gregory_natran> Yep. Very wam here in Ottawa. But we had record snowfall this past winter, so it is somewhat deserved.
Manu Sporny: Yeah thanks Kimberly there was an email that went out to the credentials community group and verifiable credentials working group earlier today about a news tip disclosure mechanism so this is a selective disclosure mechanism for data Integrity one of the specifications that's being standardized at the w3c in the VC w g and this is basically the exciting thing about this new cryptography.
Manu Sporny: Be sweet is one it supports the data integrity.
Manu Sporny: Digitally signing things into it supports nist based cryptography and so that's important for National governments European Union cares a lot about nist security standards US Government stood cares a lot about nist standard so there was a gap there that we've been meaning to fill for a while in this specification fills that I'll go ahead and link to the email.
<manu_sporny> Selective Disclosure for Data Integrity:
Manu Sporny: Let's read God's this stuff's and selectively closure for data integrity that's the email there and if you want just a really quick slideshow run-through of what that technology looks like the slide deck slide.
Manu Sporny: Is he here.
Manu Sporny: We get so happy to field any questions comments concerns about it there's already implementation that cited in the slide deck when tons of code examples in the readme file so if you're curious if you're a developer and curious as to how it actually works in practice you can go to the source code repository and and check it out there that's it thanks.
Kerri Lemoie: :Clap:
Kimberly Linson: Great thanks man who and I already have that slide deck open and was looking through it this morning so we'll we'll definitely come back with questions maybe we can touch on it again next week during announcements and reminders.
Kimberly Linson: Anybody else got a got something they want to talk about.
Kimberly Linson: Otherwise I will turn it over to Carrie.
Kerri Lemoie: But I think Maya Hansen.
Kimberly Linson: Oh man you again man who wearing a different hat.
Manu Sporny: I'm sorry yes different hat the different hat is as an editor editor in the verifiable credentials working group we have started the process of horizontal review so that is a process that you do just a couple of months before you lock everything in and you enter What's called the candidate recommendation phase candidate recommendation is where we basically say we're done with the spec we want people to implement it.
Manu Sporny: It in.
Manu Sporny: Your experience implementing all the specs went horizontal review is a process where you go out and you talk to the big horizontal review groups at w3c like the accessibility Community checks to make sure that you've created a technology that meets people with different needs like site-based needs Mobility based needs cognitive different cognitive needs.
Manu Sporny: Nationalization security privacy in the technical architecture group for the web who makes sure that the technology is you're creating fit in with kind of the architecture of the web so that process has been kicked off with the data Integrity specifications all of the specifications in the verifiable credential working group will be undergoing that process if you want to provide feedback on this specs now is a good time to read the specs and provide that kind of feedback.
Manu Sporny: Like we have three months.
Manu Sporny: Minor Adjustments before we lock everything in so just a heads up on that.
Kimberly Linson: Great thank you.
<kerri_lemoie> @manu - can you put the links in here for folks?
Kimberly Linson: Right Carrie now I'm going to turn it over to you.
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks Kimberly everybody I my name is Carrie Dell Amore I am director of Technology of the digital creative potential Consortium I'm also one of the co-chairs for verify the credentials for Education task force also you may heard of us as VC edu the other two co-chairs in this group is dmitry's I could do then and also some money ravioli each of us sort of providing our own expertise and experience in curiosity.
Kerri Lemoie: To this group today I'm going to tell you a little bit.
Kerri Lemoie: And about DC eiji task force and we've been up to this year and we're overdue for an update to this group and then also tell you some about plugfest 3 I share in lieu normally from Sharon Lee from jmf is normally here to do the plugfest 3 or the plugfest the conversations and talk more about jmf she can join us today so I'm going to do my best and then we will always have a follow-up conversations later about the plug press ok.
Kerri Lemoie: So I'm just going to talk a little bit with no slides just about BC I do and then.
Kerri Lemoie: I will dig into some.
Kerri Lemoie: That I have for plugfest 3 so for those of you who aren't aware of EC edu we are a task force that's part of this community and what we do is we sort of work on a mix of topics that are related to Education and Training digital credentials so verifiable digital connection credentials we hold weekly calls on Mondays at 11 a.m. eastern and these calls are typically about.
Kerri Lemoie: DC's or VC relator adjacent.
<kerri_lemoie> JWT VC interoperability profile with Jen Schreiber from Workday Credentials
<kerri_lemoie> Intro to CHAPI (Credential Handler API) w/Manu Sporny from Digital Bazaar
Kerri Lemoie: And I'm gonna put some links to the chat in the chat for you some of the topics we've covered recently so for instance this year we covered job feces which in Schreiber from work day we also covered a Montessori from digital bizarre gave a great description and tutorial on chappie.
<kerri_lemoie> The Next Step in Digital Credentials — Hash-based Elision with Christopher Allen -
Kerri Lemoie: We did see recently actually we did a call with Christopher Alan about about hash based when I say it wrong Allegiant I think I'm saying that right and then we whole calls like that to sort of help the attendees understand about verifiable credentials but then also we talked about how to implement them and highlight members of our community who are doing some work for instance we had a call.
Kerri Lemoie: With ASU trusted learner Network some of you may have known.
<kerri_lemoie> Brooke Lipitz from ASU Trusted Learner Network (TLN)
Kerri Lemoie: As a recent call and also Marty Reid from Randa presented the work that they've been doing over there.
<kerri_lemoie> Open Badges 3.0 Candidate Release Review Badges 3.0 Candidate Release Review
Kerri Lemoie: And then also we do a lot of work with the standards groups in the community who are trying to align their models towards a to verifiable credentials one of the bigger ones recently in this past year I only have the link to this remote is open badges along with open badges was also lips like I put in the wrong link there try it again open registry 3.0 candidate release.
Kerri Lemoie: Which is.
Kerri Lemoie: Sided with the comprehensive learner candidate release another thing we do is we work on the use cases so we had a work item that was our use cases document and so we still are collecting use cases always we have a pretty substantial this here that the community contributed over the course of a year so really we just started thinking more about how do we address these use cases and make them real one of the ways we're going about that is working on a document that contains recipes.
Kerri Lemoie: That may say describe what a diploma could look like as an open badge.
Kerri Lemoie: Insert a picture Spirit transparency description language or even European learning model because what we know is that more and more of these models will be coming up and they also are trying to figure out how do they align with verifiable credentials but then the overall community of developers and policymakers and I'll want to understand which ones should they use and why and all that so we're sort of advancing and leveling up to Annex that next part now.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so I'm going to pause there for a second anybody have any questions about VCI do or.
Kerri Lemoie: Be you have anything you'd like to add to that.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Sure so one of the things I really like about VC edu is the two directional flow to and from the task force and then the this credentials community group and the currently the VC working group in that we as Gary mentioned we do a lot of sort of educational calls where we present a particular aspect of verifiable credentials such as you know selective disclosure or credential handler API, CHAPI.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Chul Han therapy.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Like that and then going to in-depth in how that effects the education community.
Dmitri Zagidulin: But also.
Dmitri Zagidulin: A lot of.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The movement in the other direction where it just so happens that due to a lot of implementation in VC edu we're encountering both edge cases and stumbling blocks that we're confident the rest of the community is going to stumble onto also and so we're using that to to educate the ccg and verifiable credential working group giving them a heads up a lie.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Like all the you might need this.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Or when time comes to dealing with complex credentials like like a class transcript here are some issues that you run into so it's I suspect even if you're not in education it's a really interesting group to listen in on that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah thanks you just said that's an excellent point a lot of the things we're trying to tackle with the education and work force and training credentials are broadly applicable outside of that scope let's go to you may seem narrow but it's actually incredibly wide not only is a global but includes formal informal non-formal like all sorts of situations where people are learning throughout their lives and there's large communities that started before.
Kerri Lemoie: Before we actually started and we're trying to sort of like support.
Kerri Lemoie: All of these.
Kerri Lemoie: Types of initiatives and help people you know have more control over their data and use it more in ways that are more applicable to them so it's a yeah it's a really fascinating space they're just like a never-ending set of topics think about I saw that a Simoni just joined us since morning I don't mind I hope you don't mind I'm calling you real quick here but you've been doing a really interesting like International angle to some of this work also web 3 you know I was wondering if.
Kerri Lemoie: You might speak to that for a minute before we get onto the plug presto.
<simone_ravaioli> Give me 5
Kerri Lemoie: Totally putting you on the spot here and if you're not able to it's okay.
Kerri Lemoie: So when he says give me five so I'm going to move on to the plugfest and.
Kimberly Linson: I think I think Manu put himself on the cube who want to add something.
Kerri Lemoie: Oh good okay - sure.
Manu Sporny: So yeah yeah just just add one thing that's that I found really impressive over the years you know VC edu started off as a fairly small group like an offshoot of the credentials community group but if you go to their weekly calls their huge like packed paths I think the last call had like 54 56 people on it right in so in some in some ways like well in many ways VC edu is large.
Manu Sporny: Higher than the than the weekly call is at this point that's how.
Manu Sporny: He has gotten and because of that you know there are a lot of really interesting topics as Dimitri said that they cover that that helped the work in the in the in the weekly call as well just an observation.
Kerri Lemoie: I appreciate that money thank you I think one of the approaches we take to try to attract more folks who are calls that are not everybody who attends our calls are necessarily technical some folks have very limited knowledge of the technology but are extremely curious and just want to learn about it and want to take it back to their organizations so we have a lot of folks who are learning and listening to this work including folks who fund this work so.
Kerri Lemoie: We do our best to.
Kerri Lemoie: Everybody informed as much as we can one other thing while we're waiting for Simone a I think I might have one other thing is that we started this new thing this year called open agendas and once a month we try to have depending on the holiday schedule and all that but once a month we tried to have an open Agenda where we show up and has asked folks to bring up topics that they have and we've never had a shortage of topics this ranges from anything of like anybody working on a paper or project or they just.
Kerri Lemoie: Just have questions about things or want to tell us something they saw it's just been really interesting way.
Kerri Lemoie: You connect with both.
Kerri Lemoie: The community and see what what folks need.
Kimberly Linson: Yeah let's do that.
Kerri Lemoie: I Babble down quite a bit there who can give me what do you think should we move on to like this three four now and when you can chime in a little while okay I'm gonna try and share my screen off.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay miss you my thoughts.
Kerri Lemoie: Excellent where do warning that I didn't create these slides and I wasn't able to edit them so I might skip over a couple or go through if you fast that aren't really topics that our minds specifically the ones about jmf but we are about to get ready for breakfast three in fact at the end of these slides I'll have links for you to click on and join the conversation to participate in the plugfest this is the third one we've done it's been a.
Kerri Lemoie: Relation between jff Labs primarily Sharon Lou and her team there.
Kerri Lemoie: The bcig co-chairs and the community there.
Kerri Lemoie: This is like igf jmf so this is what they've been working on so they are really working towards like helping people who are facing systemic barriers to advancement and work and quality jobs so this is their their main goal and part of this right now is how to use technology for this specifically giving people more access and control over their data and interoperability is a huge part of that.
Kerri Lemoie: This slide is actually a real.
Kerri Lemoie: Of a report done by credential engine about the number of credentials that exist in the United States and I believe this is related to digital credentials and how many are issued and that's that's a pretty important part to consider so there are a lot of credentials digital credentials in the space not all of them are verifiable or some of them are verifiable because they're you know it's hosted on web pages as a open badges previous versions used to be.
Kerri Lemoie: But as you can see there's a tremendous Market care.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm trying mostly skip over this I think many of you think about this and if Sharon was here I think she would go into more details but I think a lot of us really believe that digital credentials can be used in unique ways in our life experiences and I'm going to prove what we know so this is sort of part of the way that jff has been looking at this.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so I want to talk about the plugfest this is the part that I know best so plug first one the first one was last year and it's been almost exactly a year we started talking about this plugfest one was to display one verifiable credential which was open badges version 3 and it wasn't even actually the candidate release version that's out now is sort of like a pre version that was still being worked on and on 20 participants.
Kerri Lemoie: It's just all they had to do is display.
Kerri Lemoie: So in their wallet and these were only while it participants at the time let me give you a link to the page here so in this site you can find resources information that were provided to the participants and also at the top of the page there is a link to the videos if you'd like to see the work that they did so this is how we sort of on-boarded everybody and got used to the ideas of the idea of doing plugfest hey let's take one one type of a credential and let's make.
Kerri Lemoie: It work in your wallet.
Kerri Lemoie: And then we really leveled up.
Kerri Lemoie: This one we had issuers who are issuing two wallets we had 42 participants which is we doubled in size because we had so many issues and so many wallets participating and what was really incredible about this is that we used a three different protocols to do this may be used did Cam be Capi chappie and also oid see and yet there is some overlap between all of this which we loved.
Kerri Lemoie: I'm going to put a.
Kerri Lemoie: And the chat to this is the page for plugfest to where you can learn more about the resources that those participants had and also the videos at the top I think at some point we will also be providing a video for the actual demo day.
Kerri Lemoie: Pause there before I get to number 3 I know there are some folks here who participated in number two and I was wondering if you might want to talk about your experience there.
Manu Sporny: Yeah I happy too well I guess the first thing to say about the plugfest is that they're fantastic tools to motivate like your organization to get certain things implemented like core features that you as an organization will need to compete in the market or just demonstrate that there's interoperability here to you know your executive teams the plugfest sir just.
Manu Sporny: One a great motivator in.
Manu Sporny: Thracian tool that you know the community provides the the plugfest sir I mean they're really like it sounds really easy like you know plugfest one was just display a badge in your wallet but when you get into implementation there's an enormous amount that you have to you know think about you know the different formats how you going to display them how you going to store them how people are going to get access to them you know things like that.
Manu Sporny: And while you know the people that are.
Manu Sporny: Aang how the plugfest is going to work namely you know the the PC to chairs Shannon Hoon J FF in you know their team the instructions are really clear and straightforward how you get there is like a very chaotic process because you are having to you know like Kerry said there 42 people that are participating here and you've got a like team up figure out all the details get it implemented in a very short.
Manu Sporny: Kind of Rapid turnaround time frame like a.
Manu Sporny: Right and so that part of the plugfest is also really fun and exciting meaning that you know you quickly find other companies that are aligned with what you're doing and kind of give you feedback on gut checks you've been using for awhile on whether or not you know you're building your product correctly and things of that nature so so it you know if you are going to participate.
Manu Sporny: It's it's.
Manu Sporny: Straightforwardly like communicated very chaotic in the midst of it and I think one of the biggest benefits here is that you get to bounce your ideas off of other implementers in the ecosystem usually it's really hard to do that like you know the credentials community group and the vce to you things it's usually people presenting and having a discussion but you don't really get way down into the nitty-gritty about how these things actually have to fit together and.
Manu Sporny: And work and the plugfest are very unique in.
Manu Sporny: Ensuring that you know you get that kind of last mile of alignment done so your product is actually you know working in a in a broader ecosystem so so if you haven't if you haven't participated in the plug fests and you don't have to be any particular size to participate we have seen large companies participating in single individuals participating in both demonstrating interoperability.
Manu Sporny: T you know.
Manu Sporny: End of it.
Manu Sporny: If you're really interested in this stuff or curious about it definitely give it a shot join up if you're a software you know developer it'll it'll really help you learn this stuff a lot more quickly that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: His game I knew thank you Kimberly I see you're in the cube if you don't mind us a couple things it's what money said he's right about smaller large companies we had a single developer just beat last year and he was great and I think to the remarkable things that I saw happen and this to a bunch of things in the last podcast was that we did have all this matchmaking happen my people meeting each other that didn't really know about each other and some business relationships really.
Kerri Lemoie: Developed based on this which was excellent to then also we hit I'm a pretty.
Kerri Lemoie: We couldn't figure it out having to do with that open badges 3.0 and - team and several other developers helped us figure out that you had to do with a context changed appendix file change that they had made and then we realize that okay they need to manage that differently than they ever used to which caused a development at one a tech to adjust how they handle context files but there are specifications so all of that was not just useful to the participants but to the broader community.
Kerri Lemoie: Immunity and to the specification community so really it's just.
Kimberly Linson: I mean I would Echo everything that that's been said you know it was the instructions were very clear and then it was chaos in the middle I like that a lot better because that's what it felt like but what was great was to see how it sort of all resolved and and just the different approaches that people took but the thing I really wanted to say that both of you have touched on is this level of collaboration it was for me an opportunity to get.
Kimberly Linson: To know other.
<kerri_lemoie> VC-EDu mailing list:
Kimberly Linson: Edie what they're working on how they're thinking about things in this very real and tangible way and and to support each other and there was such a celt there was a celebratory feel about the whole thing that you know even folks who did other implementations were not you know doing or we're doing different methods it was still so exciting to see them succeed and so I'm really looking forward to extend.
Kimberly Linson: Doing that in plugfest 3 this this idea.
Kimberly Linson: This collaborative Community really all working towards just just really making this thing work.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah absolutely Kimberly and also I put about the egg open discussion and collaborative nature I put the mailing list for vco2 in the chat those of you who aren't members please do join because we do do a lot of communication there and I'm and that's helpful for a lot of people to see the questions like no question is a is a dumb question right like you're thinking of somebody else is thinking it and we like to see that happening so we can figure it out that that's how we came across a bunch of things that we didn't realize.
Kerri Lemoie: We're problems so it's very helpful Mighty I see you were in the queue.
Marty Reed: Just plus one on everything I think it's it's really well done really well done process but one of the one of the key values that I saw throughout the collaborations was the level of transparency you know I think in a lot of competitive Marketplace has a lot of folks kind of play you know I've got a secret and special and very hard to do so I don't want you to figure out how to do it and this.
Marty Reed: Tug Fest really got people together saying.
Marty Reed: No no you have this kind of very special piece of this puzzle but being able to collaborate with you then we can we can learn tremendous amount more about what other markets can benefit from from these types of technical collaboration so I think just the openness of the of the folks that participated and the willingness to kind of you know allow you to log into the application and try it yourself and kind of what.
<kimberly_wilson_linson> -q
Marty Reed: In environments where it's just amazing and I think it's a huge huge value add to the overall Market Place.
Manu Sporny: +1 On all that!
Kerri Lemoie: Thanks Marty thank you Kimberly and you are in terms of Celebration what we did last year we did our demo day the day before I W which was a really great way to get together and then sort of expand upon the work of the next few days in the open conference setting.
<phil_t3> That combo with IIW is a great lead-in!
Kerri Lemoie: Well I guess I'll move on to plugfest three now so let's talk about what that means and you in the context of embracing everything as it is now know that like you know things will be exciting and I'll be challenging and they'll be fun because we've never done this before so let's talk about plugfest 3 to plug this three starting registration starting now I'll provide the links to sign up for this we already have over 20.
Kerri Lemoie: Participants have registered or showed interest.
Kerri Lemoie: And what we're going to do is run it through the summer into IW again I will do a demo day the day before I W which this year is in October so demo day would be October 9th.
Kerri Lemoie: And the purpose of.
Kerri Lemoie: Is to work on the other side of it so work on the presentation request so right now we are talking about it being with wallet who will would receive a request for the credentials the while would allow the user to respond by the selecting the credentials that they want to share and response and then they present to the verifier of the Avera final presentation to verify the credentials that come through.
Kerri Lemoie: Right now we're talking.
Kerri Lemoie: If I am not necessarily validation but we're going to dig into that more as we have follow-up calls with the participants to decide really what the levels will be why did I just pause there for a second now that we see like what the technical mission is for breakfast three and see if anybody has any any questions or or points to make their before I get started we're going any further.
Kerri Lemoie: It's pretty straightforward so I'll call you once I get sorry it's pretty straightforward we are still trying to figure out you know what the very who the verifier is but we are working on that right now Phil.
Phil Long: Yeah I just wondered how many different credential types you've gotten together yet.
Kerri Lemoie: Yes excellent question.
Kerri Lemoie: Let me see if that is on the next slide.
Kerri Lemoie: I decide isn't exactly accurate but I'm going to go to the middle part where we are listing 3-credit chills right now it will right now specifically they'll be a jmf plugfest open badge and I believe they'll be some kind of identity document but then we're also looking for the community to submit their credentials and to see if we could turn those into verifiable credentials and use those as part of the plugfest so some of that is still being being worked out.
Kerri Lemoie: Out I'm going to skip over the rest of this for.
<phil_t3> (that was a nudge for others to submit credentials for consideration ;-)
Kerri Lemoie: To these details when we have our first plugfest call and I'm sure we'll report back to all of you once we get to the final determinations of what the plugfest will be.
Kerri Lemoie: And she feels question and I will share the slides to you by the way at the end of the call we'd love to know about your credentials ideas you have for credentials ways you like to incorporate maybe even other standards so this scan this QR code will take you to the form but I will grab it and put it into the chat for you to at the end of the call.
Kerri Lemoie: We're asking that.
<stephan_baur> follow up on Phil's question: it would be great if all VCs schemas used are on a public repo.
<phil_t3> "Another standard" within the VC overall framework
Kerri Lemoie: They submit their credentials by June 9th that will give us some time to review them and make some decisions about that it could be that we have some stretch goals we've done that before where we've said hey do this too if you want to if you were already planning on doing it such as you know displaying a different type of standard and so forth so they could be a lot of interesting things happening with the multiple credentials this time around that didn't happen in the previous ones which are all about open badges 3.0.
Kerri Lemoie: And then lastly this link is the link.
Kerri Lemoie: Show your interest in participating and the date for this is June 5th and you'll be notified by June 7th and then once again our demo day is I'm is on October 9th why did I close this and stop sharing and I'll put some of these links in the chat for you.
Kerri Lemoie: And also Dimitri you've been due to instability even working on this with this to there's some things I haven't covered that you think book should know about.
Dmitri Zagidulin: I'll see so I can say a few words.
Dmitri Zagidulin: So 4 plus 12 everything Kerry mentioned and Manu this has been a really interesting set of interoperability plug fests definitely each time it's held its like this was badly needed this was a lot of both micro profiles to work out but just a lot of rough edges in the specs that that helped implementers to figure it out so for this one we're.
Dmitri Zagidulin: We're definitely in focus.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The verification side the verification side of the two to three sided market place that we've got with verifiable credentials and though there's still discussion on the exact exact details we were excited to specifically focus on multiple.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Credentials / presentation on the relying party requests credentials and the wallet presents the UI to for the user to select them sign them and send them back we feel that is an absolutely crucial.
<kerri_lemoie> Participation sign up form:
Dmitri Zagidulin: Part of the verifiable credential ecosystem and experience and we know that a lot of you on this call or implementers may have already implemented some or all of it and so but there's definitely a lot of groups that that still have a lot of work to do.
Dmitri Zagidulin: In implementing it so it's going to be really interesting.
Dmitri Zagidulin: So that's it for me.
Kerri Lemoie: Nice to meet you.
Kimberly Linson: Oh I love it thank you.
Kerri Lemoie: Paul let's see you in the queue before Kimberly hope you don't mind I'm driving here called fog ahead.
Paul_Bastian: Thanks so my question was looking at plugfest number two it was about issuance and was asking for both issuers and wallets so I was expecting for this plugfest to also be about very far implementations but looking at the at the Forum it seems it was only interested in wallet implementers and house.
Paul_Bastian: how's other verifier.
Paul_Bastian: Implementations not being tested all houses and vision to be happening.
Kerri Lemoie: Yeah that is an excellent question and first let me let me say something that I forgot to say earlier is that participants in plugfest three should also be able to do what was done but best one and plugfest to buy those credentials should be credentials in their wallet that were issued to them so that that is part of the criteria for breakfast three to verify our so we would love verify.
Kerri Lemoie: Hours to participate with.
Kerri Lemoie: To find verifiers dissipate still open to hearing from verifiers if you have software that you are working on or would like to work on we would love to hear from you platforms such as a chappie playground folk digital bizarre have offered to do some of this work to stand up as verifier but also we would love to find others that could plug in and do this to so if you're interested in doing that we're open to it it's just that we haven't really.
Kerri Lemoie: Come across anybody who stepped up to say that they would like.
Kerri Lemoie: Software I have to assume there's there's some folks out there who would like to do this and I would love to hear from them we just haven't heard from them yet.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Yeah and if I could add a couple couple words to that so.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The wavy previous plugfest worked out is.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Wow so currently in a verifiable credential ecosystem we have brought three or more than three broad camps of API in a way data model implementations all using the same verifiable credential overall data model but focusing on different apis to pass those credentials around that being the VC API specification the opening.
Dmitri Zagidulin: G family.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Of VC related specs and of course did com2 family of specs and so what happened in the previous.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Plug vest is that the three camps roughly self-organized meaning TV Capi implementers we're testing against each other using using some tools in common the.
Dmitri Zagidulin: Open ad Family implementers we're using the Atlantic ngi profile of the opening these specifications and and did come likewise we're implementing and testing against each other so we we expect the same thing to happen in this third plugfest and as Carrie mentioned while we're looking for more verifiers to join.
Dmitri Zagidulin: For each camp where we're looking for volunteers and leaders to step forward and collaborate on a on a common sandbox or playground that verifiers and wallets can contest against so digital Bazaar is someone who is going to speak a bit more about about the VC API and the credential Handler Epi aspect that digital is ours working on.
Dmitri Zagidulin: But we're definitely looking for.
Dmitri Zagidulin: The open ID implementers to step in and provide a similar equivalent sort of sandbox and likewise we're looking for did Cam to implementers to do a interoperability sandbox to help test the wallet and then verifier implementers.
Manu Sporny: Thanks to me tree yes to everything Dimitri and Kerry said to kind of answer your question I guess more directly Paul the the chappie playground which is going to be renamed to the verifiable credential playgrounds and I'll explain why here in a bit but is going to have support for multiple verifier back ends and multiple issuer back and so that is a feature that we've already built out in.
Manu Sporny: In the in the.
Manu Sporny: Playgrounds and so if someone was wanting to bring of different verifier back and just like in plugfest to they were able to bring a different issue or back ends in they can do that but as you noted that's not necessarily you know one of the focuses you know at this moment for plugfest three so technically it is possible to do that and we'd be happy to work with whoever.
Manu Sporny: Or wants to bring a.
Manu Sporny: And in but as Kerry was saying you know the the focus is you know largely on wallets and that sort of thing the other kind of line I guess we're going to have to draw during this plugfest is when we say verifier they're kind of two parts to kind of classes a verifier we're talking about one verifier we're talking about is like the business that is going to verify something like if you have a Workforce skills.
Manu Sporny: Credential then the business that's.
Manu Sporny: Going to verify that is some kind of job hiring or resume platform right so they are they are one of the verifiers and they care about the business rules of processing that verifiable credential you're delivering so there's like the business rule kind of verifier portion of it and then there's the technical back end that they end up using so they may use their own technical back-end or they may use you know like for example the verifiable credential API has a verifier.
Manu Sporny: An endpoint that you can use in you send a verifiable credential to it.
Manu Sporny: You whether or not the digital signature is good in that kind of stuff right so it's that latter one the technical verifier part of it the API part of it that ground supports today and we can just add you know as many as people would like into the future and I think you know deferring completely to jmf to decide where that kind of you know fits in and in the grand scheme of things I don't.
Manu Sporny: No Carrie if I could I could.
Manu Sporny: Not do a demo of the chappie playground but I could maybe show some of the screens that we're talking about I don't know if that would help people.
Manu Sporny: That's fine that's fine I'll.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank God we don't quite have enough time for that I'm sorry I was just thinking.
Manu Sporny: I'll defer to Phil who's on the kid then.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay yeah and I think once we I will get there I think soon so thank you for filling and filling in their fill.
Phil Long: Yeah I just wanted to emphasize an important point that man who just made which is the business logic back-end very process and verification is is really critical and and I'm would like and this was wearing my T3 hat to encourage those individual organizations that want to receive these credentials or interested in pursuing that too.
Phil Long: If they have an interest in the development side of that to implement the business rules that they would be interested in seeing for their particular vertical to step up and have conversations with the plugfest folks to try to work that into the process.
Manu Sporny: Thanks Phil yeah plus 1 to that the other thing I failed to mention was we are putting open ID support into the VC playground as well and so any wallet you know vendor implementer will be able to use both the verifiable credential API and chappy and oid for through the VC playground so we'll be providing that but again like.
Manu Sporny: Details to be.
Manu Sporny: Herman done what profile over ID for we might end up using for jmf plugfest three that's decision is entirely in the hands of you know the jff plugfest 3 showrunners I guess that's it.
Kerri Lemoie: I like that let's call it the show I would suggest folks that you sign up to join us just even if you're not exactly sure if you're going to participate because that is okay and also part of this is the adventure figuring it out together and that's how we've done it before so I suspect they'll be quite a bit of that with this one too so your voice is matter and you know how we end up going about all of this.
Kerri Lemoie: I don't see anyone else in the queue I know we're we're almost running out on time I wanted to get back to simonia kids he wanted to jump in here and say anything about BC I do and plugfest and all of that is one of our co-chairs make sure he has an opportunity to.
Kerri Lemoie: Thank you so much we really appreciate working with you too and thanks for that.
Kerri Lemoie: Okay so I guess the next steps here are stay tuned during the mailing list we will post announcements to this this this ECG mailing list but I'll start with the bcig one stick it out and pay attention to what's going on with dates and notices and get us your credentials and help us like figure out the best way to do this that you know benefits your work and your communities I really appreciate it thank you so much Kimberly thanks for having us today.
Kimberly Linson: Great thank you everybody and I know I speak for many that were very excited to get started with plugfest jury and looking forward to seeing you all in October all right everyone thank you so much for another great meeting and we'll see you next week.
Kimberly Linson: Thanks everyone.